Ugly numbers

[Nikolokolus]

I literally begin my post by referencing those years....

So explain to me how so many fans can go through all that and STILL not appreciate someone like Dame or Neil? Because, after all, that was the whole point of my post

I guess I missed that bit, but it still doesn't follow. Just because things aren't dire, doesn't mean they are now "good."

Personally I like Damian's offensive game, but his defense is just plain bad -- the one doesn't paper over the other. As for Neil, I think he's been a decent drafter and mediocre to below average at the other parts of his job, so a solid 'C.' It's OK for people to expect more.

Spoiled is Packers fans with two first-ballot hall-of-famer QBs back-to-back. Spoiled is being a Spurs fan with Pop, Buford, Duncan, The Admiral, TP, Ginobli and Kawhi. Spoiled is Lakers fans for most of the past half-century. Blazers fans aren't spoiled.

 

[Natebishop3]

I guess I missed that bit, but it still doesn't follow. Just because things aren't dire, doesn't mean they are now "good."

Personally I like Damian's offensive game, but his defense is just plain bad -- the one doesn't paper over the other. As for Neil, I think he's been a decent drafter and mediocre to below average at the other parts of his job, so a solid 'C.' It's OK for people to expect more.

Spoiled is Packers fans with two first-ballot hall-of-famer QBs back-to-back. Spoiled is being a Spurs fan with Pop, Buford, Duncan, The Admiral, TP, Ginobli and Kawhi. Spoiled is Lakers fans for most of the past half-century. Blazers fans aren't spoiled.

Apparently they have been spoiled on point guard play because they have forgotten Steve Blake and Nolan Smith.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

As for Neil, I think he's been a decent drafter and mediocre to below average at the other parts of his job, so a solid 'C.' It's OK for people to expect more.

I actually think he's been a bad drafter. He got Lillard with his first pick, great. But then he took Meyers at #11. And CJ is a very nice player, but not so much next to Lillard, and Antetokounmpo and Gobert were available.

His major strength is finding good cheap centers in trades. RoLo, Plumlee, Nurkic.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Nate Im with you.

People are bitching because we haven't been a contender in 17 years.

Hmm..

I wonder what fans of the following cities think of some of our fans' sense of entitlement:

Denver
Milwaukee
Sacramento
New Orleans
LA Clippers
NY Knicks
Washington
Memphis
Charlotte
Cleveland(Pre LBJ)
GSW (Pre Curry)

All of these cities have had similiar, if not longer droughts.

In the NBA 29 teams lose.
In the NBA there are chances that must be taken to contend and not all of them pan out
In the NBA a great team is one that can stay in the playoffs year after year.
In the NBA a good team will be in and out of the playoffs
In the NBA a mediocre team will rarely make the playoffs
In the NBA a bad team is regularly in the draft lottery
In the NBA a terrible team is a team regularly in the draft lottery and still never in the playoffs.

There are worse teams/franchises who would love to have had what we have had over the last 5 years.

Some of us DO need to get off our high horse and accept that we will not be a contender all the time and we need things to bounce the right way for us to become a contender.

Expect too much and you are bound to be let down. But yet those that do, insist on spreading their negativity over being let down to everyone else. You dug the hole you are now in. Deal with it. Don't bitch about it.

The best of owners and the best of GM's and the best of coaches still lose. and they are not magicians.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I will add that the guy with some of the biggest expectations around here, Kingspeed, rarely bitches or tosses negativity around the team. Go figure huh?

 

[Nikolokolus]

I will add that the guy with some of the biggest expectations around here, Kingspeed, rarely bitches or tosses negativity around the team. Go figure huh?

You get that's an act right?

 

[Orion Bailey]

You get that's an act right?

Hmm. Its an act to not post negativity on a team you have somewhat unrealistic expectations of?
Ok. If you say so.

 

[Natebishop3]

I will add that the guy with some of the biggest expectations around here, Kingspeed, rarely bitches or tosses negativity around the team. Go figure huh?

Apparently you have missed his "season over" threads lol

 

[Nikolokolus]

Hmm. Its an act to not post negativity on a team you have somewhat unrealistic expectations of?
Ok. If you say so.

I do.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Apparently you have missed his "season over" threads lol

I do.

Ive seen one thread where he went all negative and gave up and I think he did it to do the reverse jinx and it WORKED IMO.

If you guys are seriously cxomparing King to other posters on here about complaining incessantly about things then I must not read enough threads, but I try to read them all.

I see King as one of the more positive members here.

I am not saying good or bad either way, just saying that You can be a happy fan without expecting a ring or to contend every year.

 

[Minstrel]

Apparently they have been spoiled on point guard play because they have forgotten Steve Blake and Nolan Smith.

I mean, does that make us fortunate to witness Moe Harkless, because remember Darius Miles and Martell Webster?

And no, I'm not saying Lillard is nothing special (like Harkless) but he's not a generational superstar of the sort that makes the fanbase "spoiled" despite lack of team success, IMO. Just because the team has had some shitty point guards in the past doesn't mean that we should weep with joy for having a good one.

The team has had an okay five years. Not a great five years, not the kind we should all feel lucky to have been part of. In my opinion, at least.

 

[Natebishop3]

I mean, does that make us fortunate to witness Moe Harkless, because remember Darius Miles and Martell Webster?

And no, I'm not saying Lillard is nothing special (like Harkless) but he's not a generational superstar of the sort that makes the fanbase "spoiled" despite lack of team success, IMO. Just because the team has had some shitty point guards in the past doesn't mean that we should weep with joy for having a good one.

The team has had an okay five years. Not a great five years, not the kind we should all feel lucky to have been part of. In my opinion, at least.

If you are comparing Dame to Nolan Smith, he might as well be a generational superstar.

Also, Dame has accomplished things that few point guards have. I think the only reason why he doesn't get his props is because there are so many other amazing point guards right now.

 

[Minstrel]

Also, Dame has accomplished things that few point guards have. I think the only reason why he doesn't get his props is because there are so many other amazing point guards right now.

Well, yeah, that's certainly part of it. Rik Smits didn't get a ton of props despite being very good, because there were inner circle Hall of Fame centers overshadowing him.

It's awesome that Portland has him, but is he a better franchise player than most teams have? I'm not sure. Like, if you have Michael Jordan, then you could say that even if you're not winning titles, your team has a player the rest of the league would die for. But would say, Chicago, die to have Lillard instead of Butler? Or the Jazz and Gobert? I'm not sure.

Sacramento, though--we have it all over them!

 

[KingSpeed]

Ive seen one thread where he went all negative and gave up and I think he did it to do the reverse jinx and it WORKED IMO.

If you guys are seriously cxomparing King to other posters on here about complaining incessantly about things then I must not read enough threads, but I try to read them all.

I see King as one of the more positive members here.

I am not saying good or bad either way, just saying that You can be a happy fan without expecting a ring or to contend every year.

I expect us to win a ring every year.

 

[Natebishop3]

Well, yeah, that's certainly part of it. Rik Smits didn't get a ton of props despite being very good, because there were inner circle Hall of Fame centers overshadowing him.

It's awesome that Portland has him, but is he a better franchise player than most teams have? I'm not sure. Like, if you have Michael Jordan, then you could say that even if you're not winning titles, your team has a player the rest of the league would die for. But would say, Chicago, die to have Lillard instead of Butler? Or the Jazz and Gobert? I'm not sure.

Sacramento, though--we have it all over them!

That's comparing apples to oranges though....... would Cleveland rather have Dame than Kyrie? I think so. Would Toronto rather have Dame than Lowry? I think so. Would Washington rather have him over Wall? I'm not sure....... but I think it would be tempting. And yes, I think Chicago would trade Butler for Lillard.

 

[KingSpeed]

Hide the children:
http://www.dougstats.com/playoffs/PortlandTrailBlazers.html

CJ becoming the best player now. Dame should focus on setting up his teammates.

 

[Minstrel]

That's comparing apples to oranges though....... would Cleveland rather have Dame than Kyrie? I think so. Would Toronto rather have Dame than Lowry? I think so. Would Washington rather have him over Wall? I'm not sure....... but I think it would be tempting. And yes, I think Chicago would trade Butler for Lillard.

I think the only one of those where the other team would make the swap is Toronto. There's no way Washington or Chicago would--Wall and Butler have defensive value in addition to being excellent offensively. Irving and Lillard are basically the same player, so neither franchise would make that trade--why give up "your guy" for no on-court gain?

But my point was not to precisely rank Lillard. My point was that "having a franchise player like Lillard" is not as rare as you're implying, where Portland fans should be thankful every day. Outside of absolutely abysmal franchises like Sacramento, most teams have "a Lillard" (i.e. a star player who's not an era-defining superstar).

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Final number: we were outscored by 84 points in the 151 minutes Dame was on the court.
Not saying he doesn't play hard or care, but something ain't right.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Jesus Christ - just noticed the assist numbers:
Damian had the same number of turnovers as assists. 4.1 of each PER 48
But CJ only had 1.4 assist PER 48 (and 5.1 turnovers!)

 

[Minstrel]

Final number: we were outscored by 84 points in the 151 minutes Dame was on the court.
Not saying he doesn't play hard or care, but something ain't right.

I think that's mostly a function of two things: that he played a disproportionate amount of his minutes against the Warriors' A-team and that the Blazers aren't well set up to ping the ball around and the Warriors' defense feasts on static offenses--and Lillard was the battering ram of that offense.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Jesus Christ - just noticed the assist numbers:
Damian had the same number of turnovers as assists. 4.1 of each PER 48
But CJ only had 1.4 assist PER 48 (and 5.1 turnovers!)

Not.
A.
Point.
Guard.

Did you know his career high in assists is 7?

 

[Natebishop3]

Jesus Christ - just noticed the assist numbers:
Damian had the same number of turnovers as assists. 4.1 of each PER 48
But CJ only had 1.4 assist PER 48 (and 5.1 turnovers!)

It's hard to get assists when nobody is hitting shots.

The rest of our team was just abysmal in this series. Absolutely shameful.

 

[BlazerBeav]

Dame was handing out assists left and right last night - which his teammates happily squandered. As for other teams not wanting our franchise player, I'd disagree completely. My Utah native coworker would kill for Lillard. Jazz fans are convinced that Gordon is leaving for Boston this offseason.

 

[TBpup]

Final number: we were outscored by 84 points in the 151 minutes Dame was on the court.
Not saying he doesn't play hard or care, but something ain't right.

Playing against a superior team certainly doesn't help but that is a MASSIVE gap.

Jesus Christ - just noticed the assist numbers:
Damian had the same number of turnovers as assists. 4.1 of each PER 48
But CJ only had 1.4 assist PER 48 (and 5.1 turnovers!)

Teammates squandered some assists but when you have 2 ball dominant guards that dribble the life out of a ball, that doesn't come as much of a surprise against a good defensive team.

 

[Denny Crane]

That's comparing apples to oranges though....... would Cleveland rather have Dame than Kyrie? I think so. Would Toronto rather have Dame than Lowry? I think so. Would Washington rather have him over Wall? I'm not sure....... but I think it would be tempting. And yes, I think Chicago would trade Butler for Lillard.

If Chicago would trade Butler for Lillard, it'd be hard to argue against making the deal on our side.

I'd want Butler to assure us he wants to be in Portland and willing to stay for the long term.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

If Chicago would trade Butler for Lillard, it'd be hard to argue against making the deal on our side.

I'd want Butler to assure us he wants to be in Seattle and willing to stay for the long term.

FTFY, because if Dame gets traded, the basketball gods move the team out of Portland.

 

[Denny Crane]

FTFY, because if Dame gets traded, the basketball gods move the team out of Portland.

Yeah, the hard thing about considering trading Dame is all that he means to Portland and the franchise.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Yeah, the hard thing about considering trading Dame is all that he means to Portland and the franchise.

Plus he will take the Bulls to the finals just so he can drop 82 points on us in Game 7 of the championship series and tear out our hearts. I don't want to betray Dame, period.

 

[Denny Crane]

Plus he will take the Bulls to the finals just so he can drop 82 points on us in Game 7 of the championship series and tear out our hearts. I don't want to betray Dame, period.

I don't think the Bulls are trading Butler either.

 

[TBpup]

I wouldn't trade Dame but would consider trading CJ for someone of PG or Butler's caliber. They are a bit older but bring so much more balance to the roster and that doesn't even address the improvement in defense.