Ugly numbers

[Denny Crane]

I wouldn't trade Dame but would consider trading CJ for someone of PG or Butler's caliber. They are a bit older but bring so much more balance to the roster and that doesn't even address the improvement in defense.

Who's better on defense at PG: CJ or Dame?

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I wouldn't trade Dame but would consider trading CJ for someone of PG or Butler's caliber. They are a bit older but bring so much more balance to the roster and that doesn't even address the improvement in defense.

PG has more mileage but is Dame's age (only two months older).

 

[TBpup]

Who's better on defense at PG: CJ or Dame?

If forced to choose, I guess it would be CJ but that is like choosing between rotten tuna fish and an outhouse as to which odor you prefer to smell.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Who's better on defense at PG: CJ or Dame?

CJ is less horrible, but CJ at PG is a misnomer because he's not doing PG activities like passing.

 

[tester551]

The cap space was use it or lose it. If we let Crabbe, Meyers, and Harkless all walk, it doesn't help us a bit. There wouldn't have been any cap space this summer, regardless. Dame's contract kicks in and then CJ's contract kicks in. So is our team better with Crabbe/Harkless/Leonard or would it have been better without them?

We can still potentially trade Crabbe, Turner, Harkless, or anyone else on the team this summer. The outcome is yet to be determined.

Sometimes the best decision is to say no... Who cares if the cap space was use it or loose it? That shouldn't factor into the decision making. The decision should be "Is paying X player $Y per year a good investment?" No other factors ought to be in play.

If we didn't have Crabbe or Meyers (the two contracts I'm was most upset with), then we wouldn't have to be looking at ADDING assets just to move them off the team.

 

[Denny Crane]

CJ is less horrible, but CJ at PG is a misnomer because he's not doing PG activities like passing.

CJ

That's 20% of all the team's minutes at PG, not 20% of his minutes played.

The -111 net pts is a testament to how awful the 2nd unit is.

 

[Denny Crane]

For all the talk of CJ's defense, his PER against is actually pretty good.



13.0

Compared to Lillard's 16.4, it's terrific.

 

[Denny Crane]

Sometimes the best decision is to say no... Who cares if the cap space was use it or loose it? That shouldn't factor into the decision making. The decision should be "Is paying X player $Y per year a good investment?" No other factors ought to be in play.

If we didn't have Crabbe or Meyers (the two contracts I'm was most upset with), then we wouldn't have to be looking at ADDING assets just to move them off the team.

If over the cap, you cannot simply add assets. You have to use exceptions.

So the players we've have would be worse than Crabbe or Meyers - guys who aren't worth even decent sized contracts.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

View attachment 13995

CJ

That's 20% of all the team's minutes at PG, not 20% of his minutes played.

Again, I don't dispute that he's being classified as a PG in the second unit lineup, but he's not acting like one out there.

 

[Denny Crane]

Again, I don't dispute that he's being classified as a PG in the second unit lineup, but he's not acting like one out there.

Dame's ~6 assists per game aren't gaudy for a PG either.

You get those kind of numbers simply by handling the ball so much.

 

[tester551]

For all the talk of CJ's defense, his PER against is actually pretty good.

View attachment 13996

13.0

Compared to Lillard's 16.4, it's terrific.

View attachment 13997

If you really look at that chart, it indicates that Lillard is a better defender of PG's (16.4 vs 16.5 for CJ) and of SG (12.6 vs 13.0 for CJ).

 

[Denny Crane]

If you really look at that chart, it indicates that Lillard is a better defender of PG's (16.4 vs 16.5 for CJ) and of SG (12.6 vs 13.0 for CJ).

Dame played 2% of the team's total minutes at SG.

Likely when it was advantageous to hide him on SGs who aren't good.

 

[tester551]

If over the cap, you cannot simply add assets. You have to use exceptions.

So the players we've have would be worse than Crabbe or Meyers - guys who aren't worth even decent sized contracts.

I'm saying that Portland is going to have to include an asset (pick) to be able to dump their contracts.
I would argue that Pat would have contributed to just as many wins as Crabbe (if given the opportunity), at 1/20th of the cost.
I know it's impossible to prove one way or another, but Pat's advanced metrics are all equal or favorable to Crabbes (except for turnovers):

 

[Natebishop3]

Who's better on defense at PG: CJ or Dame?

Does it matter? CJ is probably the biggest ball-hog tunnel vision player that we've had in a long time. He's a really good player, but he's extremely score-first. He's simply not a point guard. Not even a little bit. If you put CJ at PG, you better have someone else who can handle the ball and distribute in the starting lineup.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Does it matter? CJ is probably the biggest ball-hog tunnel vision player that we've had in a long time. He's a really good player, but he's extremely score-first. He's simply not a point guard. Not even a little bit. If you put CJ at PG, you better have someone else who can handle the ball and distribute in the starting lineup.

Exactly; I love CJ to bits, but he's there to score on fools, not distribute to fools. We need a Greg Anthony. Get a vet point guard (not a good third stringer like Napier) who can be our 6/7th man. Get a vet center who can be out 6/7th man. Our defensive-minded wings (ET and Aminu) will improve just by having a roll to play that's solid and focused. CJ should always play to his strengths: breaking ankles and taking spot up threes.

 

[Natebishop3]

Exactly; I love CJ to bits, but he's there to score on fools, not distribute to fools. We need a Greg Anthony. Get a vet point guard (not a good third stringer like Napier) who can be our 6/7th man. Get a vet center who can be out 6/7th man. Our defensive-minded wings (ET and Aminu) will improve just by having a roll to play that's solid and focused. CJ should always play to his strengths: breaking ankles and taking spot up threes.

I just can't take Denny seriously about point guard play after he told me that John Stockton wasn't a pass-first point guard.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I just can't take Denny seriously about point guard play after he told me that John Stockton wasn't a pass-first point guard.

Getting a distributor backup PG would make as much difference to the bench as Nurkic made to the starting lineup. I guarantee it. Imagine a good 5 assist per night backup PG. He can pass to ET in the post, or you run screens to get CJ open, or Crabbe and Aminu in the corners. A vet center on the roll would make the bench a true bench mob again. We have good bones on our team, but no connective tissue. A vet PG and a vet C would put us over the hump, into "HCA in the first round" territory.

 

[Minstrel]

As for other teams not wanting our franchise player, I'd disagree completely. My Utah native coworker would kill for Lillard. Jazz fans are convinced that Gordon is leaving for Boston this offseason.

Would your co-worker trade Gobert for Lillard? Gobert is likely their franchise player and I don't think most Jazz fans would do that trade.