Politics Ukraine / Russia (1 Viewer)

Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Just thought I would throw in a little historical note. How did the east of Ukraine come to be populated by so many russian sympathizers? In the 1930's Stalin intentionally starved to death a large part of the population in a recognized genocide known as Holodomor. Then he repopulated the area with people from russia who stole the land and homes of the dead. Almost all russian populations in former soviet union countries were placed there by Stalin as part of policy to control those countries. It is an ongoing problem for many of those countries.
 
While this type of attack is directly from the establishment media propaganda playbook. “You love Putin” is such a tired trope.

I've asked before, but predictably, did not get a coherent answer...exactly where do you get your "playbook" from?

And make no mistake about it, Putin does have a KGB inspired playbook of his own.
 
Russia's planting mines everywhere, even cruelly hiding explosives in everyday items like fridges, toys, and children's books, Ukrainian military engineers say


  • Russian soldiers who previously occupied Ukrainian territory left it littered with land mines.
  • Ukrainian military engineers told Insider that Russia also set deadly booby traps in people's homes.
  • Moscow's troops hid explosives in every items like toys, fridges, and even children's books.

Ukraine has been battling Russia's invasion for more than 17 months, but it's held it's own and even managed to liberate massive swaths of land that it lost early in the fighting. By some Western estimates, around 50 percent of what was initially seized has already been reclaimed by Kyiv's troops.

But expelling the Russians from towns, cities, and rural areas doesn't mean eliminating the threat altogether. Occupying soldiers have left behind a deadly and vicious problem for Ukraine — one that will cause it headaches for years and years to come: the widespread deployment of land mines and traps.

Russia has practically mined everything, Ukrainian military engineers told Insider in a recent interview. And they often do so for no obvious tactical advantage. For instance, they cruelly hide explosives in everyday household items like refrigerators, toys, and even children's books. The goal is simply to inflict as much damage as possible.

Mines are, of course, also a huge problem on the front lines. During the months leading up to the ongoing Ukrainian counteroffensive, Russia built layers of elaborate defenses, with one of those fortifications being sprawling minefields along the front in the eastern and southern regions. Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Gen. Mark Milley said last month that this the biggest problem for Ukraine to solve, and the leading cause of casualties among Kyiv's troops.

Between Russia's current defensive lines and the mines left behind from earlier phases of the war, Ukraine has effectively become the most mined country in the world — with some officials suggesting that over 40 percent of the country's territory may be contaminated. It could take centuries to clean up all the explosives at a cost of tens of billions of dollars. Some observers have even suggested it may never be completely demined.

Removing these mines is a painstaking and deadly process, often carried out by sappers, combat engineers tasked with everything from building bridges to clearing minefields.

One of these individuals is Oleksandr, who leads a small team of young sappers engaged in humanitarian demining efforts around Kyiv and other regions in northern Ukraine. This area had been under Russian occupation during the early weeks and months of the war, but even after it was liberated, it was left riddled with mines, unexploded ordnance, and booby traps.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy warned in April 2022 that Russian soldiers retreating in the north at the time had left mines everywhere, creating a "complete disaster."

"They are mining the whole territory. They are mining homes, mining equipment, even the bodies of people who were killed," he said in an address to the nation. "There are a lot of trip wires, a lot of other dangers."

'As much damage as they can'
Oleksandr, whose last name is intentionally being withheld for security reasons, joined Ukraine's State Special Transport Service, a unit under the command of the country's defense ministry, last fall and only had a few months of training before he started demining activities earlier this year — a quick turnaround given the scale of the problem.

Humanitarian demining means clearing explosives from areas where active combat has ceased — like areas in northern Ukraine — so that the local population can sooner return to their normal lives, or as close to normal as possible under the circumstances. This includes demining of critical transportation infrastructure, like railways, bridges, highways, and roads, and even nuclear facilities.

Speaking through a translator, Oleksandr detailed to Insider how his team carries out demining and the life-threatening challenges of his job.

The demining process begins with the sappers talking to locals to understand the extent of the contamination and if they're dealing with Russian land mines or unexploded artillery shells.

Once the sappers have this information, they move to a more technical step, which is flying drones to map unexploded ordnance on the surface. After this, the sappers start manually clearing the area with metal detectors and other equipment. Oleksandr said the crucial element in this process is to not be in a hurry and always be mindful of what's happening.

Mines come in all different shapes, sizes, and lethality. Some explosives are placed in the ground and are designed to be triggered by armored vehicles or infantry soldiers, either by a pressure plate or trip wire, while others can be deployed from a distance through aircraft or artillery and may detonate without actually being touched.

One particularly deadly Russian mining tactic in northern Ukraine was the use of booby traps by Moscow's troops.

First Lieutenant Maksym Trykur, who serves in the State Special Transport Service and translated Oleksandr's comments, told Insider that Russia would plant these around everyday items, including toys, furniture, kitchen utensils, and plates. In some cases, refrigerators were rigged to blow when opened. Oleksandr also witnessed the Russians place explosives in children's books.

"It doesn't provide any tactical advantage," Trykur said. "That's just trying to cause as much damage as they can."

Oleksandr returned from his latest mission just under two weeks ago, where he was helping to clear the area around a railroad bridge so it was safe for civilian construction workers to rebuild parts that were destroyed during active combat. This type of work underscores why the extensive mining is such a big challenge.

Mining prevents the community from resuming their lives long after active combat is over, Trykur said. Mines in a field might detonate with children playing near them, and explosives left on the road could pose a supply or logistics issue, delaying stuff like medication, food, and postal service deliveries.

But the issue has global implications as well, he added. Ukraine, often referred to as Europe's breadbasket, is a crucial supplier of grain to the rest of the world, including countries in Africa and the Middle East. Mine contamination threatens the ability for farmers to actually grow their food, threatening to create a far-reaching crises.

It's a problem that will stay with Ukraine for years because Russia has contaminated the country on such a massive scale, Oleksandr said. And Kyiv's sappers also lack some of the equipment necessary to be able to tackle such an immense problem, meaning they are more reliant on physical manpower.

Much of the support Ukraine is receiving is focused on front-line combat. The US has provided upwards of $43 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since the start of Russia's full-scale invasion last year, including mine-clearing equipment and mine-resistant armored vehicles. But more is needed both on the lines and behind them.

Milley, the top US general, said last month in the context of Ukraine's counteroffensive that the country's Western military backers still need to provide more support to help get rid of these death traps.

"So the key thing is to focus on air defense, focus on the blocking-and-tackling sort of offensive combined arms maneuver, which is artillery, as both long-range and short-range artillery, and then get in your engineers and your mine-breaching equipment," he said. "That's the kind of stuff they need. That's what they want. That's what they're asking for."

https://www.businessinsider.com/rus...-fridges-toys-books-military-engineers-2023-8
 
AM talk radio is my guess.

Nah, the neocon boomers that haunt America’s forgotten airwaves are staunch supporters of the military industrial complex. Hannity would feel quite at home in this thread.
 
Can this war realistically end within another year or will it continue through the rest of the decade?
 
Last edited:
Another historical note:
@DarthPutinKGB

OTD in 1940, USSR formally annexed Latvia. Soviets troops had been "invited in" (in accordance with absolutely nothing to do with our treaty with Nazis) & then held "elections" where 99.6% voted to join USSR. None of this should sound familiar to you.
 
More from our friend Darth
@DarthPutinKGB

Day 528 of my 3 day war. It turns out the grain deal I pulled out of protected Russian shipping as well as Ukrainian so I’m again losing ships to a country without a navy. I remain a master strategist.
 
lol...Wikipedia?

...that map/chart is from 2010. And now you're talking about politics, not the war. But yeah, if some Russian "elections" are bogus why should anyone believe that they're not all bogus?

Did you even read the part that says;

"The poll did not claim to have scientific precision, but was carried out to get a basis from which to judge the outcome of the referendum, given that independent
observers were not present to monitor it."


Besides, if you look at the US, we're pretty polarized ourselves....want a map?
Good grief, this is beyond reaching. Did you see that this data is sourced? That data came from Ukraine's own election commission.
 
So, does that mean that any USA states that voted for Trump should be allowed to secede? BTW, those figures would be a lot different today. Almost all Ukrainians absolutely hate russia and would not think of voting for a pro-russian candidate. Also there was a nationwide election after what you call a "coup" (again parroting Putin) and the pro-russian candidate lost badly.
No, you people keep missing the point (intentionally I think). I'm not sure how more plainly I can state it. It's nonsensical to assert that the anger of the people in eastern Ukraine at the coup in 2014 was simply "russian propaganda" when they voted for that candidate 90%.

You think the US is polarized, but what states voted 90% for one candidate? They were obviously passionate about him and I think we all know the anger that would be aroused by the other side if such a thing happened in the US. Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian military has been shelling the region there's a civil war going on which further increases the tension. Saying it's all Russian propaganda is BS.
 
No, you people keep missing the point (intentionally I think). I'm not sure how more plainly I can state it. It's nonsensical to assert that the anger of the people in eastern Ukraine at the coup in 2014 was simply "russian propaganda" when they voted for that candidate 90%.

You think the US is polarized, but what states voted 90% for one candidate? They were obviously passionate about him and I think we all know the anger that would be aroused by the other side if such a thing happened in the US. Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian military has been shelling the region there's a civil war going on which further increases the tension. Saying it's all Russian propaganda is BS.

No, you're the one missing the point...exactly how and by whom was that supposed "90%" tabulated and verified by?...either produce something tangible, or let it go.
 
Nah, the neocon boomers that haunt America’s forgotten airwaves are staunch supporters of the military industrial complex. Hannity would feel quite at home in this thread.

So you're no going to divulge your sources/"playbook"?
 
Then produce a lick from that commission that is not from wikipedia.
Dude, do it yourself. You can’t just demand everyone do research and provide citations for you. This isn’t an assignment and you aren’t the teacher. If you insist information is false the impetus is on YOU to prove that information wrong. You are just being lazy, sitting back and expecting others to feed you information until you’re satisfied. Do the work yourself and actually engage instead of simply disagreeing and insulting.
 
So you're no going to divulge your sources/"playbook"?

My personal opinions don’t require a source. Was there some certain piece of data you take exception with? You’re welcome to prove it wrong if so.
 
Dude, do it yourself. You can’t just demand everyone do research and provide citations for you. This isn’t an assignment and you aren’t the teacher. If you insist information is false the impetus is on YOU to prove that information wrong. You are just being lazy, sitting back and expecting others to feed you information until you’re satisfied. Do the work yourself and actually engage instead of simply disagreeing and insulting.

Either he's trolling, or this conversation is beyond his ability to comprehend. I don't know how this person could have finished HS and yet not understand sourcing. According to his logic, if I were to post the official election results of 2020, he could ignore it because it comes from "sportstwo message board".
 
No, you people keep missing the point (intentionally I think). I'm not sure how more plainly I can state it. It's nonsensical to assert that the anger of the people in eastern Ukraine at the coup in 2014 was simply "russian propaganda" when they voted for that candidate 90%.

You think the US is polarized, but what states voted 90% for one candidate? They were obviously passionate about him and I think we all know the anger that would be aroused by the other side if such a thing happened in the US. Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian military has been shelling the region there's a civil war going on which further increases the tension. Saying it's all Russian propaganda is BS.
By "you people", do you mean all non-Slavic people?
 
No, you're the one missing the point...exactly how and by whom was that supposed "90%" tabulated and verified by?...either produce something tangible, or let it go.

And FYI, since you keep
Dude, do it yourself. You can’t just demand everyone do research and provide citations for you. This isn’t an assignment and you aren’t the teacher. If you insist information is false the impetus is on YOU to prove that information wrong. You are just being lazy, sitting back and expecting others to feed you information until you’re satisfied. Do the work yourself and actually engage instead of simply disagreeing and insulting.

My personal opinions don’t require a source. Was there some certain piece of data you take exception with? You’re welcome to prove it wrong if so.
lol...you have shown nothing but false bravado...while myself and others have presented facts but you simply and arbitrarily dismiss them by respond that it's from a certain mythical "playbook" and when asked for you to quantify your own stance/playbook, you balk. And you are then one who's constantly made statements without anything tangible to support them.

Blind opinions are not very compelling, not at all.

And I DID try to verify it but could not find anything to support it...but thanks for assuming.

And who did I supposedly insult?
 
Last edited:
There is no "Antfa". It is literally just an ideology the some people ascribe to. Some people can claim they are antifa, and act however they want, but if they aren't supporting the ideals of opposing fascism then they aren't acting as antifa.

Anybody that committing acts of (or in support of) fascism is not antifa, by definition. Very simple.

This is a ridiculous denial of reality talking point. The group of people that consistently show up dressed in black and commit all forms of violence and mayhem, and call themselves Antifa, have meetings, put out publications, plan their events etc. And your argument is that they don't exist? I mean what the actual fuck.

What is in the water????
 
No, I mean those in this thread that keep side-stepping the point with nonsensical cop-outs.

Where is this supposed "nonsensical" cop out?...and why do you keep going back to 2010-2014...what the hell does that have to do with today?

Do you have any idea how many US elections have been won by a EC total of 90% or more?
 
This is a ridiculous denial of reality talking point. The group of people that consistently show up dressed in black and commit all forms of violence and mayhem, and call themselves Antifa, have meetings, put out publications, plan their events etc. And your argument is that they don't exist? I mean what the actual fuck.

What is in the water????
Where is the next meeting? What publication? Where is the plan to their events?
 
This is a ridiculous denial of reality talking point. The group of people that consistently show up dressed in black and commit all forms of violence and mayhem, and call themselves Antifa, have meetings, put out publications, plan their events etc. And your argument is that they don't exist? I mean what the actual fuck.

What is in the water????

He can explain it for you, but he cannot understand it for you.
 
Posted after Ukraine over night struck and disabled a russian tanker, using a sea surface drone. BTW the tanker was under USA sanctions for providing jet fuel to Syria.
@DefenceUkraine

Since 1991, russia has systematically used the territorial waters of Ukraine to organize armed aggressions: against the Georgian people and against the people of Syria. Today, they terrorize peaceful Ukrainian cities and destroy grain condemning hundreds of millions to starvation. It's time to say to the russian killers, "It’s enough." There are no more safe waters or peaceful harbors for you in the Black and Azov Seas.
 
The fact that you resort to this proves you know you have no real argument. That is the official data from the Ukrainian government for the 2014 election. The source is listed right there on the damn graphic. Same data cited in Forbes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daniel...centralization-and-secession/?sh=3f76bead4035


Wow...it's about time.

ALL of those areas are within the country of UKRAINE...and just as with the US, we have multiple differences in demographics, theologies, beliefs, etc.,but we are still ALL part of the country of the US...there have been many states that have wanted to or tried to secede form the US over the years but have not. Sorry, but just because one area of a country may speak differently or view things differently doesn't mean that country should be fragmented into different nations.

...that's not how elections are supposed to work, at least not in Republics.
 
Last edited:
Where is the next meeting? What publication? Where is the plan to their events?
It's like church in the home....only they dont wear mask or try and keep their identities secrete.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top