Politics Ukraine / Russia

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jonnyboy said:
Give us back our entire eastern region and all of Crimea and we’ll give you back your 4 acres.
Deal of the century.
Ukraine has nothing to bring to the table. Putin making a peace deal is charity at this point.
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Hmmm, you must not be aware of how large this invasion is.

Reliable reports place Ukraine troops 20+ miles inside of russia. With multiple attack groups on a front about 40+ miles wide. And still advancing.
 
oldfisherman said:
Hmmm, you must not be aware of how large this invasion is.

Reliable reports place Ukraine troops 20+ miles inside of russia. With multiple attack groups on a front about 40+ miles wide. And still advancing.
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IMG_4888.jpeg

Only 6,599,200 more miles to go!
 

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jonnyboy said:
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Only 6,599,200 more miles to go!
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and like China...90% of it is tundra, desert or in Russia's case, frozen wasteland.....one might say Moscow is a lot closer than Siberia but unlike China.they have oil! Ukraine and NATO's clearly stated goal is for Russian troops to leave Ukraine and then for Moscow to pay for the damage they inflicted on Ukrainian infrastructure. Then we'll talk peace...Ukraine has never demanded Russian land but they dammed sure aren't giving up their farmlands and coastal land for Putin's whim of expansion. You wouldn't either if it were your homeland
 
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oldfisherman said:
The way this war has been fought, one thing is very clear. Once one side or the other takes control of land, and sets up a defense. It becomes very costly for the other side to take that land back. The Ukraine troops invading russia are very well trained, armed, supplied, and supported. This is not a short term raid. This appears to be take land and hold it operation.

Why? Only a few people in Ukraine know the plan, and they are silent.

My wild guess. Ukraine is setting up for future peace negotiations. Give us back our land, and we will return yours.
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Hope thats the case for sure, but Im not optimistic Putin would go along with it.
 
riverman said:
and then for Moscow to pay for the damage they inflicted on Ukrainian infrastructure.
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You mean pay BlackRock, who already has been promised the contracts to rebuild?

It’s amazing you guys still don’t see the scam. None of this money ever leaves the DC Beltway lol.
 
jonnyboy said:
You mean pay BlackRock, who already has been promised the contracts to rebuild?

It’s amazing you guys still don’t see the scam. None of this money ever leaves the DC Beltway lol.
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That is not accurate. BlackRock does not rebuild. They are an investment group.

BlackRock and JPMorgan are backing a $15 billion investor fund to rebuild Ukraine
It would cost almost half-a-trillion dollars to reconstruct Ukraine

A coalition of investors, with support from BlackRock and JPMorgan, are aiming to put together $15 billion in aid to rebuild Ukraine. In a new group known as the Ukraine Development Fund, they are supporting investments from state bodies and capital markets; the fund will bring together a consortium of investors to finance at least $15 billion of reconstruction work in the country after two years of Russian invasion.

The Financial Markets Advisory Group of BlackRock has five members working on the fund, along with JPMorgan Chase staff members. Both institutions are providing their services for free.

Last month, the World Bank and other organizations estimated the total cost of rebuilding Ukraine after Russia’s invasion at almost $500 billion. In an interview with Bloomberg, Philipp Hildebrand, vice chairman of BlackRock Inc., said the Ukraine Development Fund is poised to secure at least $500 million from countries, development banks, and other grant providers.

https://qz.com/blackrock-jpmorgan-p...new group known,two years of Russian invasion.
 
jonnyboy said:
You mean pay BlackRock, who already has been promised the contracts to rebuild?

It’s amazing you guys still don’t see the scam. None of this money ever leaves the DC Beltway lol.
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Doesn't matter who rebuilds it. As long as it gets rebuilt. I would prefer Ukraine decide who rebuilds it, and would support any legislation that would make that happen.

But if BlackRock does it that's fine too. I'm certainly not going to let the problems with our political system get in the way of me supporting helping Ukraine.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Doesn't matter who rebuilds it. As long as it gets rebuilt. I would prefer Ukraine decide who rebuilds it, and would support any legislation that would make that happen.

But if BlackRock does it that's fine too. I'm certainly not going to let the problems with our political system get in the way of me supporting helping Ukraine.
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Scroll up.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
That is not accurate. BlackRock does not rebuild. They are an investment group.

BlackRock and JPMorgan are backing a $15 billion investor fund to rebuild Ukraine
It would cost almost half-a-trillion dollars to reconstruct Ukraine

A coalition of investors, with support from BlackRock and JPMorgan, are aiming to put together $15 billion in aid to rebuild Ukraine. In a new group known as the Ukraine Development Fund, they are supporting investments from state bodies and capital markets; the fund will bring together a consortium of investors to finance at least $15 billion of reconstruction work in the country after two years of Russian invasion.

The Financial Markets Advisory Group of BlackRock has five members working on the fund, along with JPMorgan Chase staff members. Both institutions are providing their services for free.

Last month, the World Bank and other organizations estimated the total cost of rebuilding Ukraine after Russia’s invasion at almost $500 billion. In an interview with Bloomberg, Philipp Hildebrand, vice chairman of BlackRock Inc., said the Ukraine Development Fund is poised to secure at least $500 million from countries, development banks, and other grant providers.

https://qz.com/blackrock-jpmorgan-p...new group known,two years of Russian invasion.
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It'll cost half a billion dollars and we've conveniently frozen about $300 billion Russian...

So the rest of the world can front $200 billion and once Ukraine is rebuilt it will be able to pay that back with interest in probably a few decades.

I like it.
 
Phatguysrule said:
No. Right, right now, is stopping Russia from attacking Ukraine. Or ar least helping Ukraine defend themselves.

Wrong would be refusing to help Ukraine defend themselves.

Wrong is advocating that Ukraine not defend themselves.
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What we're doing is akin to seeing two people in a knife fight, and egging on the one that is obviously going to die no matter how much aid is given, in hopes that they're able to bloody their opponent more, whom we hate.

Egging them on is one course of action, which you can attempt to morally justify in the name of self defense, except that the true intent is to use their life for an underlying selfish intent. Another course of action is to attempt to stop the fight before it becomes lethal. Even though you may not succeed, why shouldn't your energy be put to that? That seems much more ethical to me.
 
Reliable info on Ukraines invasion into Russia is still very limited. Most info is from satellite intel.

Ukraine is silent, and have not allowed reporters into the area.

Reports out of Russia are, well, just funny bad. Many reports state only 1,000 Ukrainians have entered Russia. While the next report claims they killed 14,000 of them.

Based on somewhat reliable intel of the Ukraine units in that area. It apears Ukraine has commited up to 40,000 troops to this invasion. Not all have entered Russia. Some are suppprt troops, while there is a very large number in ready reserve.

This war is beyond sad. Both armys are badly beaten up.
 
beast crnjo said:
What we're doing is akin to seeing two people in a knife fight, and egging on the one that is obviously going to die no matter how much aid is given, in hopes that they're able to bloody their opponent more, whom we hate.

Egging them on is one course of action, which you can attempt to morally justify in the name of self defense, except that the true intent is to use their life for an underlying selfish intent. Another course of action is to attempt to stop the fight before it becomes lethal. Even though you may not succeed, why shouldn't your energy be put to that? That seems much more ethical to me.
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This is false. And quite frankly it's dishonest to phrase it that way.

What we're doing is more like seeing one person breaking into somebody else's house repeatedly and, causing property damage, and raping and murder the family members who live there there.

We're helping that family to defend themselves against those attacks.

Not helping if able would be a grave injustice.
 
I watched a travel vlog on Ireland the other day and they interviewed a Ukrainian grandmother refugee through a translator and she said in Ireland, people pull together to help each other...make sure the neighbor gets home from the pub, drop off bread to the hungry widow, etc...she said in Ukraine and Russia people do not help each other out much and are prone to bickering and fighting within their own neighborhoods...she felt at peace in Ireland. I thought it was an interesting view from an expat who was forced to leave from the invasion. They are probably going to be fighting for a long time to come and it's sad but some places are not peaceful to begin with. Same problem in places like the Congo...thr idea that this is some plot by the west to profit is bullshit but that doesn't mean arms dealers from the west won't profit. It's just not cloak and dagger DC controlled like johnny seemed to speculate. If you understand the nature of war, you understand the profits of war and the losses. usually the people in the line of fire are not the ones to profit but the folks fueling their efforts sure are...that's hardly new news. War sucks...I'll never say it doesn't. Being invaded by warriors sucks the most.
 
It sounds like this may be a new tactic for Ukraine. Russia is better when it can dig in and fire tons of artillery. They aren't good at fast moving warfare that Ukraine can do with Western weapons.

If Ukraine can and keep this fast moving and mobile attack up it will greatly stretch Russia's abilities to fight.
 
o8o52piak8id1.jpeg
 
He does not look happy in that picture.

Russia is going pedal to the metal...
 
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Ukraine forces continue advancing at will further into Russia.

Russia's response has been to send in the only troops available. Very young, poorly supplied kids. Most are surrendering at the first sight of Ukraine soldiers.

Pooptin has two choices.

Transfer good fighting units and equipment from other areas. However, this will weaken sections of the front line, and make it easier for Ukraine to break through.

Probably/hope this will not happen, but, pooptin talks Belarus into invading Ukraine from the north.

Pooptin is very low on good fighting units and new equipment.
 
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