Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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Phatguysrule said:
You've been dead ass wrong thus far.

Ukraine isn't surrendering any time soon.
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Have I? If the war is going so well for Ukraine, why do we keep escalating? Crossing boundaries we once said we would not (such as providing tanks, jets), then recently we were very close to allowing Ukraine to strike deep into Russia.

How much of the Donbas region was Ukraine able to reclaim over the past year?

Russia will not lose. Even if they did start to lose conventionally, do you want to test their restraint in not dropping a tactical nuke? If you support this conflict, you're supporting a game of nuclear chicken.
 
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step outta line, the man come and take you away
It's time we stop take a look around
Everybody look what's going down!
(Stephen Still's lyrics from over 50 years ago and we're still not a steaming radioactive pile of carbon ash....go figure?)
 
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beast blazer said:
Russia will not lose. Even if they did start to lose conventionally, do you want to test their restraint in not dropping a tactical nuke? If you support this conflict, you're supporting a game of nuclear chicken.
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I don't see how you can with any degree of seriousness espouse a "Give Russia what they want because if you don't they'll drop nukes" philosophy. Has appeasement ever proven historically to be a legitimate diplomatic position?
 
beast blazer said:
Have I? If the war is going so well for Ukraine, why do we keep escalating? Crossing boundaries we once said we would not (such as providing tanks, jets), then recently we were very close to allowing Ukraine to strike deep into Russia.

How much of the Donbas region was Ukraine able to reclaim over the past year?

Russia will not lose. Even if they did start to lose conventionally, do you want to test their restraint in not dropping a tactical nuke? If you support this conflict, you're supporting a game of nuclear chicken.
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Start practicing hiding under school desks or in school basements like we did. You'll be surprised at how much better it will make you feel......
 
beast blazer said:
Have I? If the war is going so well for Ukraine, why do we keep escalating? Crossing boundaries we once said we would not (such as providing tanks, jets), then recently we were very close to allowing Ukraine to strike deep into Russia.

How much of the Donbas region was Ukraine able to reclaim over the past year?

Russia will not lose. Even if they did start to lose conventionally, do you want to test their restraint in not dropping a tactical nuke? If you support this conflict, you're supporting a game of nuclear chicken.
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When did I say it's going well? The fact that there is war means it is not going well.

Russia cannot be allowed to win. That simply encourages further attacks. That's why the Allies are escalating. The Allies are going to drain Russia dry and end their ability or desire to attack anybody in the future.

It will happen slowly and unfortunately Ukraine is going to suffer a long time because of it.

The Allies will not escalate to the point that Russia will have a legitimate reason to use nukes. If Russia uses nukes it will be the end of this regime. It will not be the end of the people. But using nukes will cost this regime more than it could ever gain.
 
Phatguysrule said:
When did I say it's going well? The fact that there is war means it is not going well.

Russia cannot be allowed to win. That simply encourages further attacks. That's why the Allies are escalating. The Allies are going to drain Russia dry and end their ability or desire to attack anybody in the future.

It will happen slowly and unfortunately Ukraine is going to suffer a long time because of it.

The Allies will not escalate to the point that Russia will have a legitimate reason to use nukes. If Russia uses nukes it will be the end of this regime. It will not be the end of the people. But using nukes will cost this regime more than it could ever gain.
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At this point, Putin has his little minions busy trolling the internet and spewing disinformation to try to ensure a Trump victory so that he can use Dummy Donnie to get what he wants. I don’t think his fingers are twitching to start a nuclear war that no one can win just yet.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
I don't see how you can with any degree of seriousness espouse a "Give Russia what they want because if you don't they'll drop nukes" philosophy. Has appeasement ever proven historically to be a legitimate diplomatic position?
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It works really well - if you are the one being appeased.

barfo
 
President Zelensky visited a plant in Pennsylvania that manufactured artillery shells they use to defend themselves. He was on TV autographing the shells. He was thanking the workers there.
It wouldn't be a partisan issue in the past but now Republicans are party of Putin.
 
crandc said:
President Zelensky visited a plant in Pennsylvania that manufactured artillery shells they use to defend themselves. He was on TV autographing the shells. He was thanking the workers there.
It wouldn't be a partisan issue in the past but now Republicans are party of Putin.
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The truly fair thing to do is invite Putin to Pennsylvania.
 
Hoopguru said:
I dont see Putin withdrawing, he's too egotistical. The Russian people will need to take care of him once and for all.
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Yeah, this isn't going to end for a while. Honestly the only solution that prevents Russia from causing more problems is to bleed them dry. Keep them here until they simply can't go anymore and collapse.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yeah, this isn't going to end for a while. Honestly the only solution that prevents Russia from causing more problems is to bleed them dry. Keep them here until they simply can't go anymore and collapse.
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Hope so! I think they are depending on China and Iran to support them any way they can. NATO best be prepared take on all three at once if need too.
 
Hoopguru said:
Hope so! I think they are depending on China and Iran to support them any way they can. NATO best be prepared take on all three at once if need too.
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Nobody has any interest in that war. Nobody has any interest in nuclear war.

It's definitely something we should be prepared for, But there's really no reason to push hard enough that it comes to that.

Soft support of Ukraine will bleed Russia dry. It sucks that Russia is forcing Ukraine to suffer this much. But the only other option for Russia would be to somehow become trustworthy and get the US and the rest of Europe to help them... And I don't think that's even a possibility as long as Putin's in power.
 
I hope Kamala will be able to help them negotiate a resolve.
 
There can be no negotiation while Russia occupies.

Congressional Republicans actually wanting to investigate cost of providing security for President Zelensky. Rock bottom.
 
crandc said:
There can be no negotiation while Russia occupies.

Congressional Republicans actually wanting to investigate cost of providing security for President Zelensky. Rock bottom.
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Im not that optimistic that Putin would pull his troops out including Crimea as a basis for negotiation. So if he doesn't pull them out, it's going to take one hell of an offensive to push him out. I think he plays the attrition card right along with Ukraine & NATO. He's needs to be taken out one way or another or this war will last way to long.
 
Hoopguru said:
Im not that optimistic that Putin would pull his troops out including Crimea as a basis for negotiation. So if he doesn't pull them out, it's going to take one hell of an offensive to push him out. I think he plays the attrition card right along with Ukraine & NATO. He's needs to be taken out one way or another or this war will last way to long.
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This war has already lasted far too long. It is going to last a lot longer.

It breaks my heart to say it, but that's what it's going to take. Lean into it Ukraine. You're going to have to break Russia's will.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Start practicing hiding under school desks or in school basements like we did. You'll be surprised at how much better it will make you feel......
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Huh? I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

But at least people in the 60's understood the threat. The country understood the danger they were in, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. But we came just as close to Armegeddeon a couple weeks ago, and in our "Information"(disinformation) age, most Americans had no clue.

Perhaps it's nice for those who might be taken out immediately. That's the best way to go,in the blast.

I will be meeting up with you folks in the afterlife though, to get my "I told you so" in...

But if people understood the danger, it would influence who they vote for. And right now there is only one candidate talking about ending the conflict peacefully.
 
crandc said:
Russia is hoping Trump gets elected and ends aid to Ukraine, forcing them to surrender.
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I bet many Ukrainians wish that as well. They would if they have any sense. Russia has vastly expanded the size of the army, and Ukraine is kidnapping people off the street to serve.

Yet some thing more weapons is going to somehow turn the tide? Nope. NATO would have to up the anty considerably to have an hope of defeating Russia. And doing so means nuclear war.

It's a no win situation.
 
beast blazer said:
Huh? I don't even know what this is supposed to mean.

But at least people in the 60's understood the threat. The country understood the danger they were in, during the Cuban Missile Crisis. But we came just as close to Armegeddeon a couple weeks ago, and in our "Information"(disinformation) age, most Americans had no clue.

Perhaps it's nice for those who might be taken out immediately. That's the best way to go,in the blast.

I will be meeting up with you folks in the afterlife though, to get my "I told you so" in...

But if people understood the danger, it would influence who they vote for. And right now there is only one candidate talking about ending the conflict peacefully.
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Yeah, the guy who talks, talks, talks and always has a concept of a plan. But have you ever seen an actual plan from him??? Has he ever followed through on all his verbal vomit? How's that wall coming along? Has Mexico paid for it yet? Where is that replacement health care plan?? I'd sure love to be the guy selling you a used car......
 
The money the US gives to Ukraine is in the form of a "loan". Not one that will ever be paid back. But the loan has stipulations: one being that Ukraine has to put it's farm land up for sale. Ukraine's farmland is some of the best in the world.

30% of it has already been purchased. By Monsanto and DuPont (both owned by Blackrock).

Neat trick aye? Could that be why Biden sent Boris Johnson to tear up the peace deal?

Blackrock owned companies are also making a lot from the military equipment, and they are also getting the contracts to rebuild.

The Democrats and the left used to be the ones that would call stuff like this out? Now they cheer lead it. What happened?
 
beast blazer said:
The money the US gives to Ukraine is in the form of a "loan". Not one that will ever be paid back. But the loan has stipulations: one being that Ukraine has to put it's farm land up for sale. Ukraine's farmland is some of the best in the world.

30% of it has already been purchased. By Monsanto and DuPont (both owned by Blackrock).

Neat trick aye? Could that be why Biden sent Boris Johnson to tear up the peace deal?

Blackrock owned companies are also making a lot from the military equipment, and they are also getting the contracts to rebuild.

The Democrats and the left used to be the ones that would call stuff like this out? Now they cheer lead it. What happened?
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As long as Puerto Rico is the 51st, I think Ukraine would make a great 52nd state.
 
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