Politics Ukraine / Russia (1 Viewer)

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SlyPokerDog said:
NATO can and should still support Ukraine. NATO and Europe can help in nation-building.

I think Ukraine should ask for NATO's help in defending Chernobyl. Because if Chernobyl starts spewing radiation again that's a Europe problem. Troops around it and lots of air defense over it.

I'm not saying NATO and the US should not help Ukraine.
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Lets reset it!
 
SlyPokerDog said:
NATO can and should still support Ukraine. NATO and Europe can help in nation-building.

I think Ukraine should ask for NATO's help in defending Chernobyl. Because if Chernobyl starts spewing radiation again that's a Europe problem. Troops around it and lots of air defense over it.

I'm not saying NATO and the US should not help Ukraine.
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I hear you. I just don't think we should allow Russia to play these games anymore. It's gone too far.

The reality is that we're already obligated to defend them. That's why they gave up their nukes in the first place.

The fact that we have a Russian asset in the White House again is such a disgrace.

How can we make any long term commitments? Insane.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I hear you. I just don't think we should allow Russia to play these games anymore. It's gone too far.

The reality is that we're already obligated to defend them. That's why they gave up their nukes in the first place.

The fact that we have a Russian asset in the White House again is such a disgrace.

How can we make any long term commitments? Insane.
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peace through strength!
Thats what he ran on…Trump probably puts a hit a Putin like he did Solimini?
 
Hoopguru said:
peace through strength!
Thats what he ran on…Trump probably puts a hit a Putin like he did Solimini?
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And if we miss that's WWIII. It's best to continue what we have been doing, support Ukraine, and keep sanctions in place against Russia. Their economy is going to shit. The more it goes to shit the greater the chance Putin will be killed from within.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
And if we miss that's WWIII. It's best to continue what we have been doing, support Ukraine, and keep sanctions in place against Russia. Their economy is going to shit. The more it goes to shit the greater the chance Putin will be killed from within.
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I was being sarcastic as trump will do anything for applause.
Agree sanctions their economy is starting to feel it. They pulled out of Afgan when their economy was tanking.
 
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SlyPokerDog said:
ex0gcn5sdnje1.jpeg
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I would like to say betrayed but can't. Trump showed his true colors long ago. He is not a friend to anyone. He is a bloviating bully subordinate to bigger bully.

I am sorry, Ukrainian brothers and sisters, that too many of my fellow Americans were more concerned about which restroom trans people use than the fate of the world.
 
Ukraine refused Trump's demand for half their mineral wealth. But they did offer to send eggs.
 
Hoopguru said:
Just my opinion that when he decided to invade Ukraine after easily taking Crimea that his objective was to topple Zelensky, take Kiev and pint his own gov control in. Sure he doesn't like NATO being so close with especially now that Sweden & Finland are NATO members. He knows that by negotiating his way out through trump, is a loss, especially since there will be a democratic multi nation security force in Ukraine.
"Kyiv is the cradle of Slavic civilization and one of the most ancient, majestic, and beautiful cities of Europe. For good reasons, Honore de Balzac called it the Eternal City, Northern Rome. Not every European capital can be proud of such a long history and so many cultural landmarks." Huge trade routes as well.

Of course he will now say he never intended to take the whole country and replace the gov in Kiev, only just protect Donbas's and hold on to Crimea, which should have never happened under Obama and NATO.
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Considering that he sent his largest force towards Kyiv on three different routes, yeh I think he definitely wanted to take Kyiv. (And please use Ukrainians spelling of Kyiv, not russian. :) )
 
Hoopguru said:
Just my opinion that when he decided to invade Ukraine after easily taking Crimea that his objective was to topple Zelensky, take Kiev and pint his own gov control in. Sure he doesn't like NATO being so close with especially now that Sweden & Finland are NATO members. He knows that by negotiating his way out through trump, is a loss, especially since there will be a democratic multi nation security force in Ukraine.
"Kyiv is the cradle of Slavic civilization and one of the most ancient, majestic, and beautiful cities of Europe. For good reasons, Honore de Balzac called it the Eternal City, Northern Rome. Not every European capital can be proud of such a long history and so many cultural landmarks." Huge trade routes as well.

Of course he will now say he never intended to take the whole country and replace the gov in Kiev, only just protect Donbas's and hold on to Crimea, which should have never happened under Obama and NATO.
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And yes, he had a force in the south that was supposed to go all the way to Odessa and then on to Moldova, but got tied up so long in Mariupol that Ukraine had time to build up defenses to stop him. He definitely wanted to take the entire country. He now holds much less Ukrainian territory than he did in 2022. Knocked back across the river in Kherson, knocked out of artillery range of Kharkiv. Then lost part of russia in Kursk. He loses about 100 men for every square km gained in Donbass. russia has lost 1000 tanks.
 
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Hoopguru said:
Europe needs to put a peace keeping force in Ukraine. If pu thinks he can re-establish the Soviet Union, he wrong, imo.
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That's not really what Ukraine wants. They want either a NATO guarantee or help to build their own army to 1 million strong with the best arms available. They don't trust a peace keeping force to hold Putin back.
 
Hoopguru said:
I actually think if Trump allows pu to take Ukraine that works against him and elections in 26. He's much rather take credit for pu pulling out or settling.
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No matter how you look at it, it seems it is to Trump's advantage to stop Putin and yet he doesn't seem to want to. Why is the big question.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I support Ukraine but they are nowhere near ready to join NATO. Years away.
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I'm curious why you say that. They have already integrated NATO arms and tactics. They have instituted reforms required by NATO. They would have by far the second strongest army in NATO.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
NATO can not and will not become involved in a NATO member's inner workings and disputes. They can not take sides in a NATO member's civil war. Ukraine is not a politically stable country. It wasn't that long ago that Ukraine had a very pro Russia leader. Can you imagine if that happens again? An elected Ukrainian official giving Russia NATO classified information.

This is from 4 days ago.

WORLD
Ukraine detains top intelligence official, accuses "the rat" of working for Russia
By Frank Andrews

Updated on: February 12, 2025 / 11:52 AM EST / CBS News


Ukraine's primary intelligence service said Wednesday that it had detained one of its own high-level officials, accusing "the rat" of working for Russia. The Security Service of Ukraine (SBU) said it had documented "14 episodes of the 'rat's' illegal activities," saying the man had headed the SBU's Anti-Terrorist Center.

Vasyl Malyuk, the head of the SBU, led the investigation and carried out the arrest himself, according to a statement from the agency, which said President Volodymyr Zelenskyy had been kept updated on the "complex" and "multi-step" operation.


"Using encrypted software bookmarks, we penetrated the traitor's gadgets — mobile terminals, computers," Malyuk was quoted as saying in the SBU's statement. "In the process of all this, we managed to qualitatively document the collection and transmission of relevant information by the traitor to the enemy."

In a photo published with the statement, Malyuk is seen holding the alleged traitor — who appears to have a bruise on his forehead — by the scruff of the neck.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ukraine-sbu-intelligence-official-the-rat-accused-working-for-russia/
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There are rats in every country. Ukraine is ferreting them out as fast as they can. I believe that almost every phone call made in Ukraine is monitored. russia's invasion changed a lot of attitudes: they would never elect a russian lover again. it's not even possible because I don't think the strongest russian leaning oblasts will ever be Ukrainian again.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
By July 2022 651 prosecutions had been opened against prosecutorial and law enforcement officials in Ukraine,[115] with over 16,000 cases of treason being opened by Ukraine prosecutors by February 2023.[116]
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I just don't buy this. Lots of the countries in NATO have large russian populations and lots of russian spies who have been entrenched for years. NATO wouldn't be anymore compromised than they are now. Besides they aren't going to be making secret plans to invade russia, so I don't think the spies can do much damage.
 
OK, here is what I came over here for today. Been so long that I don't know what will pop up when I hit "paste". :)
Oh yeh, wanted to include all oil and gas. Tried to bully Ukraine into signing immediately or they would never get to meet with Vance (that's an incentive?). Nothing in return to Ukraine.
Revealed: Trump’s confidential plan to put Ukraine in a stranglehold
Panic in Kyiv as US president demands higher share of GDP than Germany’s First World War reparations
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/busines...trump-confidential-plan-ukraine-stranglehold/
 
BTW, while russia spent the night aiming at civilian targets, Ukraine set another refinery on fire and hit an oil pipeline hard enough to put it out of commission temporarily, also somebody sabotaged two very expensive portable radar stations near Moscow.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
And yes, he had a force in the south that was supposed to go all the way to Odessa and then on to Moldova, but got tied up so long in Mariupol that Ukraine had time to build up defenses to stop him. He definitely wanted to take the entire country. He now holds much less Ukrainian territory than he did in 2022. Knocked back across the river in Kherson, knocked out of artillery range of Kharkiv. Then lost part of russia in Kursk. He loses about 100 men for every square km gained in Donbass. russia has lost 1000 tanks.
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Hard to believe but russia has actually lost 10,000 tanks, not 1000. why didn't anyone catch that?
 
'Panic' in Ukraine as leaked confidential Trump peace plan astounds: report

The UK-based Telegraph newspaper has obtained a copy of a proposed peace plan being pitched by the Trump administration to Ukraine that has reportedly set off "panic" in Kyiv.

As the Telegraph writes, the plan delivered to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy last week would "amount to the US economic colonization of Ukraine, in legal perpetuity" and also "implies a burden of reparations that cannot possibly be achieved."

In sum the plan would guarantee the United States half of the revenues generated by the extraction of resources in Ukraine going forward, as well as half of revenues generated by "all new licenses issued to third parties" in the country.

While Zelenskyy had in the past proposed developing a partnership with the United States to extract key minerals in his country, the proposed deal goes far beyond anything he pitched to President Donald Trump in recent months.

According to the Telegraph, "Trump’s demands would amount to a higher share of Ukrainian GDP than reparations imposed on Germany at the Versailles Treaty, later whittled down at the London Conference in 1921, and by the Dawes Plan in 1924." At the same time, Trump plans to entirely let Russia off the hook for its invasion of Ukraine three years ago that has resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths in both countries.

https://www.rawstory.com/trump-ukraine-2671169386/
 
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