Politics Ukraine / Russia (9 Viewers)

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SlyPokerDog said:
View attachment 45943

If that doesn't fit your definition of horrific I guess there isn't much more for us to discuss.
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I really don't get it..... most Americans beat their chests about WWII. We laud our grandparents and call that group the greatest generation.... but now we're against what can easily be compared to another Hitler who is in the early stages of trying to expand his empire by committing genocide against another group of people?

That generation stood up and said "Nope. Not on our watch."

It's time to do that again unfortunately.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
View attachment 45943

If that doesn't fit your definition of horrific I guess there isn't much more for us to discuss.
Click to expand...

Of course that is horrific. Looks like two dead people in a car. Cant play the vid though because it appears to be a screen shot. I'm not sure what your point is?

Why do you and some others keep acting as though I have not said RUSSIA IS IN THE WRONG and that WAR IS TRAGIC and NO WAR HAS A WINNER and NO ONE WINS FROM WAR!

I mean what will it take for you to acknowledge I have said these things so that there isnt some evil judgement passed on me without the ability to just have a conversation about the rules of engagement?

Io mean why is this that difficult? Will it help if I enlarge the font and make it red?

I have not insulted one person here who has disagreed with me other than when they insult me first.

Why?

What the hell is with this selective reading?

I'm not defending Russia. No one is defending the soldiers per say other than to discuss the rules of engagement and whether they are within their rights. It seems there is too much anger and aggression in some posters that they pick and choose a few of my words out and run with it without taking it into context of what else I have said. Dismissing a large part of my posts to find some way to make me out as some pathetic evil person.

I get other posters, but Sly, I hold you to be better than this...Just trying to have a discussion, why you are tossing these weird ultimatums of nothing more to discuss is somewhat insulting. You do not know me as well as I thought you did if that is even in question....
 
I'm not going to argue with anyone on here. You can make your own judgements, but I personally think that this is just the beginning and we need to get involved. I don't think we even need to put boots on the ground. I think our Navy and Air Force will absolutely wreck the Russians. It wouldn't even be close.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I really don't get it..... most Americans beat their chests about WWII. We laud our grandparents and call that group the greatest generation.... but now we're against what can easily be compared to another Hitler who is in the early stages of trying to expand his empire by committing genocide against another group of people?

That generation stood up and said "Nope. Not on our watch."

It's time to do that again unfortunately.
Click to expand...
That generation took 3 years before engaging and only after a direct hit on the USA.

The problem now is that a direct hit on the USA might be nuclear.

There are no easy solutions unfortunately, as is always the case when dealing with powerful mad men.
 
andalusian said:
That generation took 3 years before engaging and only after a direct hit on the USA.

The problem now is that a direct hit on the USA might be nuclear.
Click to expand...

That's the reality of what happened, but that wasn't my point. My point was that people today love to look back fondly on WWII and how America rode in on our stallion to save the day. But, as you said, it took us years to get involved and it was actually stupid that we waited that long because if we HAD gotten involved earlier it might not have ever escalated like it did.

Also, we clearly provoked a response from Japan, and it feels like we're trying to provoke a response from Putin right now.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I really don't get it..... most Americans beat their chests about WWII. We laud our grandparents and call that group the greatest generation.... but now we're against what can easily be compared to another Hitler who is in the early stages of trying to expand his empire by committing genocide against another group of people?

That generation stood up and said "Nope. Not on our watch."

It's time to do that again unfortunately.
Click to expand...

And the majority of the world is standing up. In this financially interconnected world, we are trying a different tactic. In a sense, a new way to hopefully stop a war. It's truly horrific to watch this play out to most of us. But the answer, for right now, isn't to escalate this to a greater and deadlier war.

We enter the war with troops and everything Putin has been brainwashing the average Russian citizen with becomes true. We don't want to solidify his authoritarian position in Russia, we want to weaken it. Hopefully, crippling financial sanctions, the destruction of their economy, can do this.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Of course that is horrific. Looks like two dead people in a car. Cant play the vid though because it appears to be a screen shot. I'm not sure what your point is?

Why do you and some others keep acting as though I have not said RUSSIA IS IN THE WRONG and that WAR IS TRAGIC and NO WAR HAS A WINNER and NO ONE WINS FROM WAR!

I mean what will it take for you to acknowledge I have said these things so that there isnt some evil judgement passed on me without the ability to just have a conversation about the rules of engagement?

Io mean why is this that difficult? Will it help if I enlarge the font and make it red?

I have not insulted one person here who has disagreed with me other than when they insult me first.

Why?

What the hell is with this selective reading?

I'm not defending Russia. No one is defending the soldiers per say other than to discuss the rules of engagement and whether they are within their rights. It seems there is too much anger and aggression in some posters that they pick and choose a few of my words out and run with it without taking it into context of what else I have said. Dismissing a large part of my posts to find some way to make me out as some pathetic evil person.

I get other posters, but Sly, I hold you to be better than this...Just trying to have a discussion, why you are tossing these weird ultimatums of nothing more to discuss is somewhat insulting. You do not know me as well as I thought you did if that is even in question....
Click to expand...

Where have I insulted you? I have calmly replied to your posts.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
And the majority of the world is standing up. In this financially interconnected world, we are trying a different tactic. In a sense, a new way to hopefully stop a war. It's truly horrific to watch this play out to most of us. But the answer, for right now, isn't to escalate this to a greater and deadlier war.

We enter the war with troops and everything Putin has been brainwashing the average Russian citizen with becomes true. We don't want to solidify his authoritarian position in Russia, we want to weaken it. Hopefully, crippling financial sanctions, the destruction of their economy, can do this.
Click to expand...

If he's able to control the narrative and blame the west for their economy, it's going to galvanize them anyway. They're suffering massive losses already. I think stepping in now and crushing his forces will send a swift message that this will not be tolerated. His only recourse will be the one that he can't choose.
 
Natebishop3 said:
If he's able to control the narrative and blame the west for their economy, it's going to galvanize them anyway. They're suffering massive losses already. I think stepping in now and crushing his forces will send a swift message that this will not be tolerated. His only recourse will be the one that he can't choose.
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I am not sure that it is the right time to risk a nuclear war, yet - but maybe a clear, public red lines of when NATO plans to intervene are a good place to start.

But, as we said before, it is always dangerous to understand the rational of mad men.
 
andalusian said:
I am not sure that it is the right time to risk a nuclear war, yet - but maybe a clear, public red lines of when NATO plans to intervene are a good place to start.
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I feel like that should have been set already. The unbridled murder of civilians should have been the red line.
 
Natebishop3 said:
I feel like that should have been set already. The unbridled murder of civilians should have been the red line.
Click to expand...

Well, we do not know what was said in diplomatic talks, but the ongoing escalation of the us response at least shows that the government is not trying to bury its head in the sand.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
And the majority of the world is standing up. In this financially interconnected world, we are trying a different tactic. In a sense, a new way to hopefully stop a war. It's truly horrific to watch this play out to most of us. But the answer, for right now, isn't to escalate this to a greater and deadlier war.

We enter the war with troops and everything Putin has been brainwashing the average Russian citizen with becomes true. We don't want to solidify his authoritarian position in Russia, we want to weaken it. Hopefully, crippling financial sanctions, the destruction of their economy, can do this.
Click to expand...

Not only would it play into his hand, if we come in with a heavy hand, it gives him an incentive to start shooting off nukes.


Though if we continue to pummel him with sanctions and destroy Russia economically, we may back him into a desperate corner where he pushes the nuke button anyway.

China though is currently giving Russia a way to survive the sanctions to a point. So that is maybe so far stopping him from pushing the button. He still has a soapbox and place to direct blame.
 
andalusian said:
I am not sure that it is the right time to risk a nuclear war, yet - but maybe a clear, public red lines of when NATO plans to intervene are a good place to start.

But, as we said before, it is always dangerous to understand the rational of mad men.
Click to expand...
Well, I kind of feel both us and NATO are already in the war by proxy, with the shipment of lethal weapons and now jet via Poland. I heard today the Zelenski may forget about joining NATO but Im not sure thats really Putan wants? But maybe it will give him an out and and back off? He would still rule the Port Cities and Eastern Ukraine and it will take years before Ukraine can build back better.
 
I haven't been watching much news.

Where's NATO in all of this, other than Poland and the US potentially helping Ukraine against Russia?
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Shut those bastards down good! Hell, it's almost Spring, people can be cold for a little while.
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oldmangrouch said:
Fair enough. Not to be contrarian, but are the Ukraine solidiers using the civilian population as human shields? Does Ukraine want their own people killed to win the PR war? That's where the parallel starts to break down.
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The Russians recognize no human shields.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
I have thought the same thing. And many real military experts also. Ukraine is very conservative with their air force since it is so small. They may have determined that there is a large amount of anti-aircraft firepower in that convoy which might also be why they have not attacks with TB2 Turkish made drones. They only have about 15 of these drones left and they only fly at 80 mph so very vulnerable.. I have thought they should at least send special forces out at night with these hand held NLAWs that can destroy anything besides a tank.
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Where are those God damned Mig-29s?
 
Let's face it, CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, and their ilk LOVE war!! $$$$$$
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Where have I insulted you? I have calmly replied to your posts.
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I never said you insulted me. Im just saying giving me an ultimatum and nothing further to discuss is somewhat insulting. I figured you to know my heart and mind does not wish anything like that on anyone. For you to have to ask and make it an ultimatum?
 
andalusian said:
I am not sure that it is the right time to risk a nuclear war, yet - but maybe a clear, public red lines of when NATO plans to intervene are a good place to start.

But, as we said before, it is always dangerous to understand the rational of mad men.
Click to expand...
Seems to me NATO & UN peace keepers got involved with Kosovo. Didn't last long once we did and that dude died as a prisoner of war. I realize they had no nukes.
 
Orion Bailey said:
I never said you insulted me. Im just saying giving me an ultimatum and nothing further to discuss is somewhat insulting. I figured you to know my heart and mind does not wish anything like that on anyone. For you to have to ask and make it an ultimatum?
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I didn't give you an ultimatum.

We disagree on something, namely what is considered horrific. We've both discussed and shared our views. What more is there to say about it?

An ultimatum is if you post again about it I'm come over to your house and pee in all of your booze.

Saying there isn't anything left to discuss is not.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I didn't give you an ultimatum.

We disagree on something, namely what is considered horrific. We've both discussed and shared our views. What more is there to say about it?

An ultimatum is if you post again about it I'm come over to your house and pee in all of your booze.

Saying there isn't anything left to discuss is not.
Click to expand...

Well okay. Ultimatum may be extreme but it sure sounded like if i dont agree with you, you are done with me type of post. Maybe you meant on this topic. Maybe i took it incorrectly as, in general?
 
Natebishop3 said:
I really don't get it..... most Americans beat their chests about WWII. We laud our grandparents and call that group the greatest generation.... but now we're against what can easily be compared to another Hitler who is in the early stages of trying to expand his empire by committing genocide against another group of people?

That generation stood up and said "Nope. Not on our watch."

It's time to do that again unfortunately.
Click to expand...
I posted a link earlier in the thread that showed Americans and FDR were a little slow in getting involved.
They did go all in though as you say when they decided to.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I didn't give you an ultimatum.

We disagree on something, namely what is considered horrific. We've both discussed and shared our views. What more is there to say about it?

An ultimatum is if you post again about it I'm come over to your house and pee in all of your booze.

Saying there isn't anything left to discuss is not.
Click to expand...
Only a dog would pee in a man’s booze.
 
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