Politics Ukraine / Russia (3 Viewers)

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theprunetang said:
Quite an interesting response, given that I never quoted you or referred to you at all. You claim that you did nothing to me at all, while hurling insults my direction. And, I never even mentioned you, quoted you, or said a single word in your direction. Interesting debate method.
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Aren't you theputintang?
 
Russia's elite wants to eliminate Putin, they have already chosen a successor - intelligence

A group of influential people who oppose President Vladimir Putin and who plan to assassinate him, is forming among the Russian business and political elite, according to the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine.

Source: Chief Directorate of Intelligence

Details: The goal of this group is to remove Putin from power as soon as possible and restore economic ties with the West, destroyed by the war in Ukraine.

Quote: "A part of Russia's political elite sees Federal Security Service Director Alexander Bortnikov as Putin's successor. It is Bortnikov who has recently fallen out of favour with the Russian dictator. The official reason for the FSS leader's downfall is fatal miscalculations in the war against Ukraine.

It was Bortnikov and his department who were responsible for analysing the views of the Ukrainian population and the capacity of the Ukrainian army.

It is known that Bortnikov and some other influential members of the Russian elite are considering various options for removing Putin from power. In particular, poisoning, sudden illness, or other "accident" is not excluded.

It is possible that these processes are connected with the recent "leak" of the location of Chechen units in the north of Kyiv. "

More details: According to intelligence, this leak may have been intended both to weaken Kadyrov's influence and as an attempt to establish cooperation with the Ukrainian authorities in advance, bypassing the current leadership of the Russian Federation.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/20/7332985/
 
Road Ratt said:
There is absolutely no reason to go there at all. This is why most conversations online end in nothing but a shit show...

There is really no call for being an a-hole. I did nothing to you at all. So please crawl back under your rock.
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Any questioning of political motives or pointing to facts outside of the mainstream narrative plants you firmly in the Putin camp and means you want all Ukrainians to die.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Your black and white take on life is way past its shelf life. If you can’t see the grays that make up the bulk of life, and adjust accordingly, that’s on you.
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This isn’t really a fair judgement in the context of this thread. There is literally only one acceptable narrative here that won’t cause you to get attacked as a Russia supporter, and you’re picking on one of the only ones in the thread willing to look at some other facts surrounding the situation. Seems odd this is the person you accuse of thinking in “black and white” terms and trying to educate on examining the gray areas. I would argue examining the gray areas is exactly what he is doing.
 
jonnyboy said:
Any questioning of political motives or pointing to facts outside of the mainstream narrative plants you firmly in the Putin camp and means you want all Ukrainians to die.
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There is no excuse for what Putin is and has been doing and he must be stopped.

Whataboutisms be damned. If he gets Ukraine he'll do it again. It can't be allowed.
 
ABM said:
Yes, it was more of a question: You agree that, if we get too involved (i.e., help Ukraine establish a no-fly zone in any manner) Putin may go off the rails and ______________?

Why did Zelenskyy only address Congress and not NATO as a whole? I suppose that's a rhetorical question. Zelensky wants to give Putin the idea that Ukraine is not sidling up with NATO?
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He has been addressing the individual nations that belong to NATO.
 
Phatguysrule said:
There is no excuse for what Putin is and has been doing
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Agreed. I just don’t buy the idea that he’s planning on steamrolling through Europe and we need to plan our actions according to that theory. There’s been no factual basis for that.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Russia's elite wants to eliminate Putin, they have already chosen a successor - intelligence

A group of influential people who oppose President Vladimir Putin and who plan to assassinate him, is forming among the Russian business and political elite, according to the Chief Directorate of Intelligence of the Ministry of Defence of Ukraine.

Source: Chief Directorate of Intelligence

Details: The goal of this group is to remove Putin from power as soon as possible and restore economic ties with the West, destroyed by the war in Ukraine.

Quote: "A part of Russia's political elite sees Federal Security Service Director Alexander Bortnikov as Putin's successor. It is Bortnikov who has recently fallen out of favour with the Russian dictator. The official reason for the FSS leader's downfall is fatal miscalculations in the war against Ukraine.

It was Bortnikov and his department who were responsible for analysing the views of the Ukrainian population and the capacity of the Ukrainian army.

It is known that Bortnikov and some other influential members of the Russian elite are considering various options for removing Putin from power. In particular, poisoning, sudden illness, or other "accident" is not excluded.

It is possible that these processes are connected with the recent "leak" of the location of Chechen units in the north of Kyiv. "

More details: According to intelligence, this leak may have been intended both to weaken Kadyrov's influence and as an attempt to establish cooperation with the Ukrainian authorities in advance, bypassing the current leadership of the Russian Federation.

https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/20/7332985/
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Don't know if this is true, Ukrainians like to mess with Putin's paranoia.
 
Stanislav Aseyev
According to Ukrainian intelligence, Bortnikov and other influential circles of the Russian elite are considering all options of removing Putin from power, not ruling out physical elimination under the guise of poisoning or another "eventuality".
Again most likely Ukrainian disinformation, but we can always hope.....
 
oldmangrouch said:
Bush lied and people died....but as little respect as I have for the fool I would never compare him to Putin.
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A million dead in Iraq based on a willful lie, I’d say comparing the two isn’t out of this universe.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Don't know if this is true, Ukrainians like to mess with Putin's paranoia.
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I don’t think it’s far fetched at all. They’re getting hit in the pocket and unable to access their foreign accounts due to sanctions. I suspect most elites’ loyalty falls short when pitted against a threat to their wealth.
 
jonnyboy said:
Agreed. I just don’t buy the idea that he’s planning on steamrolling through Europe and we need to plan our actions according to that theory. There’s been no factual basis for that.
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Link?

I've heard Putin might want to take back previous USSR territory but not "steamrolling through Europe."

And that's pretty much moot now seeing how undertrained and ill-equipped the Russia army is.
 
jonnyboy said:
I don’t think it’s far fetched at all. They’re getting hit in the pocket and unable to access their foreign accounts due to sanctions. I suspect most elites’ loyalty falls short when pitted against a threat to their wealth.
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Nobody doubts their lack of loyalty. Do they have the means and cojones to pull it off?
 
jonnyboy said:
Agreed. I just don’t buy the idea that he’s planning on steamrolling through Europe and we need to plan our actions according to that theory. There’s been no factual basis for that.
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Yeah, I don't think he'd live long enough to see that through. But I have no doubt of he's successful here, he'd attack one of the other countries he's threatened.
 
jonnyboy said:
This isn’t really a fair judgement in the context of this thread. There is literally only one acceptable narrative here that won’t cause you to get attacked as a Russia supporter, and you’re picking on one of the only ones in the thread willing to look at some other facts surrounding the situation. Seems odd this is the person you accuse of thinking in “black and white” terms and trying to educate on examining the gray areas. I would argue examining the gray areas is exactly what he is doing.
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I actually tend to agree with you. But he doesn’t need to be rude about it virtually every time. He’s made it clear that anyone who might disagree or fail to understand is clearly stupid. Present the information and open it for discussion without being a pedantic. I don’t think that’s too much to ask. And sorry, but video after video of someone else’s opinion or take on a subject gets old very quickly. I want to know what (or even if) HE actually thinks……other than that the rest of us are too stupid to live. Is that the lens he views life through? And finally, I’m not sure his equivalencies are valid in this particular case. America is guilty of a host of sins, but this ain’t one of them, so why even bring it into the conversation.

And as far as the Iran War goes………you/he is preaching to the choir. That was a complete and unnecessary clusterfuck. But that’s not the subject of this thread………nor particularly relevant at this particular time.
 
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If we are going to talk what-aboutism, has anybody pondered the difference between our current reaction and the USSR/Afghan conflict? We were very open and assertive about shipping arms to people who were actually our enemies just to annoy the Russians - and we showed no fear of how the Russians would react to it.

During the cold war we would support people who were just plain vile in the name of "anti-communism"....but to many Americans "antifa" is an insult and Putin is a champion of xtian civilization.:blink:
I wish there was another planet I could go and live on.
 
jonnyboy said:
Any questioning of political motives or pointing to facts outside of the mainstream narrative plants you firmly in the Putin camp and means you want all Ukrainians to die.
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Most people can't seem to see past their own party, nor country, lines. I like to say: "Once you have bought the cow, you won't drink milk from any other".

Personally I don't think anyone cared about the alleged "Putin support". I am pretty certain it was me speaking out against the U.S. that ruffled feathers. I mean... how dare you speak out against our "democracy". :smiley-ghost2:
 
Road Ratt said:
Most people can't seem to see past their own party, nor country, lines. I like to say: "Once you have bought the cow, you won't drink milk from any other".

Personally I don't think anyone cared about the alleged "Putin support". I am pretty certain it was me speaking out against the U.S. that ruffled feathers. I mean... how dare you speak out against our "democracy". :smiley-ghost2:
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Nope. It was the Putin support.
 
Road Ratt said:
Most people can't seem to see past their own party, nor country, lines. I like to say: "Once you have bought the cow, you won't drink milk from any other".

Personally I don't think anyone cared about the alleged "Putin support". I am pretty certain it was me speaking out against the U.S. that ruffled feathers. I mean... how dare you speak out against our "democracy". :smiley-ghost2:
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Oh yeah? And what party do I belong to? It’s not as simple as red or blue. I have progressive and conservative principles. Nothing is that simple. You also fail to admit when you’re wrong.
 
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