Politics Ukraine / Russia (3 Viewers)

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Road Ratt said:
Noam Chomsky: US is world's biggest terrorist.

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Road Ratt said:
Noam Chomsky on Russia-Ukraine War 2022.

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I understand his concern about NATO but he fails to bring up Putins brutal aggressions into Chechnya & Georgia. If Latvia, Lithuania stayed out of NATO do your really think Putin wouldn't have brutally taken them?

Baltic states in north-eastern Europe, which are now members of the EU and NATO, were invaded and occupied in June 1940 by the Soviet Union. They remained within the USSR until its collapse in 1991.
 
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Hoopguru said:
I understand his concern about NATO but he fails to bring up Putins brutal aggressions into Chechnya & Georgia. If Latvia, Lithuania stayed out of NATO do your really think Putin wouldn't have brutally taken them?

Baltic states in north-eastern Europe, which are now members of the EU and NATO, were invaded and occupied in June 1940 by the Soviet Union. They remained within the USSR until its collapse in 1991.
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It may be my literal thinking here but, Putin hasn't taken Latvia nor Lithuania.

So, what are you asking?
 
Hoopguru said:
Not asking just stating if they weren't part of and under the NATO’s Putin would be aggressive.
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Actually, you did ask. If you had stated in the first place, I wouldn't have had to ask myself. :tongue:

Would Putin attack Latvia and Lithuania if they weren't under NATO's umbrella? Hard for me to say as he may still go there. We don't know his full intentions yet. On the other hand, I do understand that Putin has stated that Ukraine joining NATO starts WWIII. And yet America stills meddles in Ukraine even knowing this. Poking the bear, literally, clearly isn't good foreign policy. Especially a nuclear armed bear.

A better question would be. Is it NATO/America meddling, Oil/Energy or Putin wanting to rebuild Russia to it's old glory days? Or a bit of all three, and than some?
 
Road Ratt said:
Actually, you did ask. If you had stated in the first place, I wouldn't have had to ask myself. :tongue:

Would Putin attack Latvia and Lithuania if they weren't under NATO's umbrella? Hard for me to say as he may still go there. We don't know his full intentions yet. On the other hand, I do understand that Putin has stated that Ukraine joining NATO starts WWIII. And yet America stills meddles in Ukraine even knowing this. Poking the bear, literally, clearly isn't good foreign policy. Especially a nuclear armed bear.

A better question would be. Is it NATO/America meddling, Oil/Energy or Putin wanting to rebuild Russia to it's old glory days? Or a bit of all three, and than some?
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Putin is a ruthless war criminal man and yes he wants the old glory days.
 
Road Ratt said:
Actually, you did ask. If you had stated in the first place, I wouldn't have had to ask myself. :tongue:

Would Putin attack Latvia and Lithuania if they weren't under NATO's umbrella? Hard for me to say as he may still go there. We don't know his full intentions yet. On the other hand, I do understand that Putin has stated that Ukraine joining NATO starts WWIII. And yet America stills meddles in Ukraine even knowing this. Poking the bear, literally, clearly isn't good foreign policy. Especially a nuclear armed bear.

A better question would be. Is it NATO/America meddling, Oil/Energy or Putin wanting to rebuild Russia to it's old glory days? Or a bit of all three, and than some?
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NATO is a defensive organization so it can’t be considered a threat. It’s horse shit that they claim otherwise. Putin was just pissed because he was aspiring to take it back. He knew if Ukraine joined NATO he couldn’t attack. It’s absurd that a country wanting to be safe and protected from aggression is considered an act or war. Fuck that.
 
Putin has 90% disapproval rating in US. A month ago, majority of Republicans preferred him to Biden. Do they still?
 
Hoopguru said:
Putin is a ruthless war criminal man and yes he wants the old glory days.
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This is exactly the narrative that our media puts out.

I would say that several of our American presidents would fall under that very same title as well. G.W. Bush and Obama both come to mind here. We (America) care about Ukraine, yet turn a blind eye to wars in countries that we don't like. Hell, America directly supports wars in countries that we don't like. Ukraine shows America's hypocrisy, big time.

We are hypocrites to the fullest extent with the "hills that we are willing to die on". Putin is a madman, yet American presidents are just trying to "spread democracy" with their wars and killing. That is not sane logic in my opinion. If we call Putin a madman when he attacks another country, we must be consistent and call out our leaders when our own country/presidents do the same.
 
Road Ratt said:
This is exactly the narrative that our media puts out.

I would say that several of our American presidents would fall under that very same title as well. G.W. Bush and Obama both come to mind here. We (America) care about Ukraine, yet turn a blind eye to wars in countries that we don't like. Hell, America directly supports wars in countries that we don't like. Ukraine shows America's hypocrisy, big time.

We are hypocrites to the fullest extent with the "hills that we are willing to die on". Putin is a madman, yet American presidents are just trying to "spread democracy" with their wars and killing. That is not sane logic in my opinion. If we call Putin a madman when he attacks another country, we must be consistent and call out our leaders when our own country/presidents do the same.
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Which one of those wars were similar to Ukraine? I wasn't aware we were trying to annex any of those countries. Also, I was not aware that we were intentionally targeting civilians. Got a link?
 
Road Ratt said:
NATO. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization, also called the North Atlantic Alliance, is an intergovernmental military alliance among 28 European countries and 2 North American countries. Established in the aftermath of World War II, the organization implements the North Atlantic Treaty, signed 4 April 1949.

NATO is a military organization. You may call it defensive, but if say Russia/China had a defensive military organization in South America, would we still see it as defensive? No, we would not. And rightly so.

It makes me wonder why we can all see our own countries interests/concerns in these matters yet the other countries concerns don't matter at all.

The answer, hypocrisy.
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Oh man, you got me.... so which of the countries that NATO invaded shocked you the most? There are so many, right?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Oh man, you got me.... so which of the countries that NATO invaded shocked you the most? There are so many, right?
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You clearly don't see the point. Nor have you proved anything. So your opinion is just that, your opinion...

Edit: You give no proof yourself, yet want proof from me. Hyprocrisy...
 
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Road Ratt said:
This is exactly the narrative that our media puts out.

I would say that several of our American presidents would fall under that very same title as well. G.W. Bush and Obama both come to mind here. We (America) care about Ukraine, yet turn a blind eye to wars in countries that we don't like. Hell, America directly supports wars in countries that we don't like. Ukraine shows America's hypocrisy, big time.

We are hypocrites to the fullest extent with the "hills that we are willing to die on". Putin is a madman, yet American presidents are just trying to "spread democracy" with their wars and killing. That is not sane logic in my opinion. If we call Putin a madman when he attacks another country, we must be consistent and call out our leaders when our own country/presidents do the same.
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Bush lied and people died....but as little respect as I have for the fool I would never compare him to Putin. In his incredible arrogance he thought he could change an Islamic nation into a western style constitutional republic. It was a fools errand, but not inherently malevolent. Russia's intentions toward Ukraine have always been malevolent. (see Holodomor for some historic context)
 
Road Ratt said:
You clearly don't see the point. Nor have you proved anything. So your opinion is just that, your opinion...

Edit: You give no proof yourself, yet want proof from me. Hyprocrisy...
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LOL

Joining an organization that merely exists to say that if one of its member states is attacked, all the others will protect it, is not in any way, shape, or form aggressive. It is 100% defensive. Russia and China can make whatever pact they want. There is no hypocrisy. Where are you located?
 
Road Ratt said:
This is exactly the narrative that our media puts out.

I would say that several of our American presidents would fall under that very same title as well. G.W. Bush and Obama both come to mind here. We (America) care about Ukraine, yet turn a blind eye to wars in countries that we don't like. Hell, America directly supports wars in countries that we don't like. Ukraine shows America's hypocrisy, big time.

We are hypocrites to the fullest extent with the "hills that we are willing to die on". Putin is a madman, yet American presidents are just trying to "spread democracy" with their wars and killing. That is not sane logic in my opinion. If we call Putin a madman when he attacks another country, we must be consistent and call out our leaders when our own country/presidents do the same.
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Disagree to a point. We haven't done anything like what Putin has done to Ukraine, at least not in the last 40 years or so.

However, our presidents have committed war crimes. I'll give you that. Just not of similar severity as Putin.
 
Road Ratt said:
NATO. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization, also called the North Atlantic Alliance, is an intergovernmental military alliance among 28 European countries and 2 North American countries. Established in the aftermath of World War II, the organization implements the North Atlantic Treaty, signed 4 April 1949.

NATO is a military organization. You may call it defensive, but if say Russia/China had a defensive military organization in South America, would we still see it as defensive? No, we would not. And rightly so.

It makes me wonder why we can all see our own countries interests/concerns in these matters yet the other countries concerns don't matter at all.

The answer, hypocrisy.
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We don't attack our neighbors in an effort at empire building.

Putin has no right, and nobody should be sympathetic toward him.
 
theprunetang said:
Ok. So we have some Putin apologists in the forum. Good to know.
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There is absolutely no reason to go there at all. This is why most conversations online end in nothing but a shit show...

There is really no call for being an a-hole. I did nothing to you at all. So please crawl back under your rock.
 
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Road Ratt said:
There is absolutely no reason to go there at all. This is why most conversations online end in nothing but a shit show...

There is really no call for being an a-hole. I did nothing to you at all. So please crawl back under your rock.
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Do you go back and read what you post? Whenever anyone challenges your cut and paste approach to “debate”, you get angry and unnecessarily rude. But because you are “autistic” it’s somehow “okay” and the rest of us just have to suck it up and understand. Fuck that. If you want to be rude and challenging, then accept that that is how you will be treated. Quit using autism as an excuse. Your black and white take on life is way past its shelf life. If you can’t see the grays that make up the bulk of life, and adjust accordingly, that’s on you. But quit treating the forum members like shit because of your need to be “right”….or “smarter” than everyone else. Your opinions matter about as much as the rest of ours do, which means they don’t amount to shit in the larger scheme of things. So there is no reason for you to be so consistently rude and challenging. Maybe you’re the one who should crawl back under a rock. As you yourself said, “There is really no call for being an a-hole.”
 
oldmangrouch said:
Bush lied and people died....but as little respect as I have for the fool I would never compare him to Putin. In his incredible arrogance he thought he could change an Islamic nation into a western style constitutional republic. It was a fools errand, but not inherently malevolent. Russia's intentions toward Ukraine have always been malevolent. (see Holodomor for some historic context)
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This is true.
 
Natebishop3 said:
LOL

Joining an organization that merely exists to say that if one of its member states is attacked, all the others will protect it, is not in any way, shape, or form aggressive. It is 100% defensive. Russia and China can make whatever pact they want. There is no hypocrisy. Where are you located?
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Hell. I'd support joining it if Russia and China simply wanted a group of countries that wanted to work together to stop war altogether but that is a different "Boogeyman" scenario. Globalist New World Order is bad! Very very bad!
 
Road Ratt said:
There is absolutely no reason to go there at all. This is why most conversations online end in nothing but a shit show...

There is really no call for being an a-hole. I did nothing to you at all. So please crawl back under your rock.
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Quite an interesting response, given that I never quoted you or referred to you at all. You claim that you did nothing to me at all, while hurling insults my direction. And, I never even mentioned you, quoted you, or said a single word in your direction. Interesting debate method.
 
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