Politics Ukraine / Russia (6 Viewers)

[Phatguysrule]

Yes, again, Putin is wrong. Soldiers are only following orders. however and when you are a soldier on the ground its kill or be killed mentality.

The soldiers themselves are trained to survive and one of those is to take out inbound threats. I do not see it far fetched to see the inbound car as a potential threat. So they should wait for the car to drive up and blow everyone up? NO they are going to strike from a distance. Same reason we shoot planes down before they get t their target. You dont wait for the plane to drop a bomb before shooting it down.


AGAIN. Russia is wrong. However the soldiers on both sides of this seem to be the victims. They are now in a war and looking to survive.

Don't care about the Russian soldiers who are following orders. They are in the wrong and should fucking well pay for their actions.

I hope the Ukrainians kill 100 invading Russian soldiers for every Ukrainian civilian who is killed. 1000.

Sorry. Go kill Putin instead. Then I've got your back.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

AGAIN. Russia is wrong. However the soldiers on both sides of this seem to be the victims. They are now in a war and looking to survive.

Question for you, since you like hypothetical mitigating scenarios if a woman being raped breaks free, gets a hammer, and beats her attempted rapist to death does this make them both victims? I mean at one point the rapist was struggling to live, looking to survive. Doesn't that make them both victims?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Experiences are thru knowledge of studying WW1 & WW2.

So few Americans have truly been faced with a "my life or your life" scenario, they arent great judgements on what should and shouldnt happen in a battle. One need not be on a field of war to know this. Just listen to the vets.

There shouldn't be battle. Fuck every soldier who is attacking Ukraine. They are the hand of evil. I'd be 100% fine if they all dropped dead right now. Especially if that stopped the attack.

 

[Chris Craig]

You have been there. You know there are times when one feels they must act first to survive. Its me or them.

We don't know these soldiers had that exact feeling as they saw the car speeding towards them.

I have been in a life or death situation more than once. Yes, I acted and survived....I acted to protect an innocence person.

We don't know what's in those soldiers minds no. But, when a tank turns out of it's way to run over a car there is something wrong there.

I understand what you are getting at, the need to be vigilant while in a life or death situation, but you can do so while being mindful of civilians.

 

[Chris Craig]

Question for you, since you like hypothetical mitigating scenarios if a woman being raped breaks free, gets a hammer, and beats her attempted rapist to death does this make them both victims? I mean at one point the rapist was struggling to live, looking to survive. Doesn't that make them both victims?

Heck of an analogy, but I hear what you are saying.

Russia attacked, they don't get to claim victimhood; even if many of the soldiers are just civilians thrown into fatigues and sent to battle not knowing what's up.

That's what happens when you live in a communist country with a dictator in charge.

 

[Natebishop3]

Was that connected to the other video? Sorry i simply watched what was posted?
Did i have to go onto the reddit site to find that?

Yes it was. Same people.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

 

[Natebishop3]

Russian soldiers may not have chosen to invade Ukraine, but they're definitely choosing to randomly shoot a car with people in it. And this has happened again and again. Not a random occurrence. Unarmed civilians are being murdered throughout the country. And this isn't just from bombing/shelling. It's soldiers opening up on civilians completely unprovoked.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

I am allowed to call it a war here right?

Yes, as long as you are not in Russia or at the UN, you may call it a war.

 

[Chris Craig]

At the same time I get

If that's true, that's not good at all

 

[Fairly-Hard]

They can make those decisions until it gets nasty and we start kicking the absolute shit out of Russia and China both.
I’m about fed up with the Saudi and UAE assholes.

 

[Fairly-Hard]

Russia is going to lose here. I’m absolutely sure there is no good way this ends for Putin.
When that happens China, Saudi and UAE will all change their stance AGAIN.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Question for you, since you like hypothetical mitigating scenarios if a woman being raped breaks free, gets a hammer, and beats her attempted rapist to death does this make them both victims? I mean at one point the rapist was struggling to live, looking to survive. Doesn't that make them both victims?

Nope, But then both parties are acting upon their free will without direction of a leader. Apples to Oranges in my opinion.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Hmmm....

I guess it's time to stop selling SA and UAE American weapons.

I mean looking at the technical superiority the Russians are currently demonstrating with their weapons I have no problem if SA and UAE would rather buy from them instead.

https://www.reuters.com/business/ae...-with-23-billion-weapon-sales-uae-2021-04-13/

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...ion-approves-650m-weapon-sale-to-saudi-arabia

 

[Orion Bailey]

Don't care about the Russian soldiers who are following orders. They are in the wrong and should fucking well pay for their actions.

I hope the Ukrainians kill 100 invading Russian soldiers for every Ukrainian civilian who is killed. 1000.

Sorry. Go kill Putin instead. Then I've got your back.

And its your right to feel that way.

 

[Orion Bailey]

There shouldn't be battle. Fuck every soldier who is attacking Ukraine. They are the hand of evil. I'd be 100% fine if they all dropped dead right now. Especially if that stopped the attack.

Oh so simple to say not, living under the oppression of such a guy like Putin. You don't think soldiers have the fear of execution for not following orders? And when the orders are vague, it leads to confusion. They are going to do what it takes to survive including avoiding execution frfom their leader, for treason. However wrong their leader is.

 

[Chris Craig]

Russian soldiers may not have chosen to invade Ukraine, but they're definitely choosing to randomly shoot a car with people in it. And this has happened again and again. Not a random occurrence. Unarmed civilians are being murdered throughout the country. And this isn't just from bombing/shelling. It's soldiers opening up on civilians completely unprovoked.

It's terrible.

I do get where OB is coming from though. Civilians are fighting for Ukraine, they are part of the defensive against Russia, getting guns and weapons, making Molotov cocktails, and sneaking up on and destroying tanks, etc...and they should, they have a right to and should...they are fighting for their freedom, I am for that.

How are Russian soldiers supposed to tell which civilians are part of the war, trying to stop them, and which are not? Ukraine has taken out tanks by civilians bombing and Molotov cocktailing them. There was a chance that car had a bomb in it and it was coming for them. That wasn't the case.

They are killing babies and children who are definitely not fighting in the war.

This elderly couple was just trying to get out of town, out of the way. The video was sickening to watch.

The truth is Russia started killing civilians before any of the civilians took up arms to fight back. They started this war. They shouldn't be there. So, is it their fault civilians are dying? Yes.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

Poland ready to 'immediately donate' all its MIG-29 jets to the US Government and encourages other NATO allies to do the same

I hope it's true this time. I see Poland is doing everything it can to avoid Russia's wrath. Not onl;y transferring the planes to USA instead of Ukraine, but actually transferring the planes to an American air base in Germany. Hopefully they will get to Ukraine soon and that they will find a place to land them and to keep them safe when not in the air.

 

[ABM]

Funny. You schmuckl!

On a side note, we just moved to a new community. I'm really pleased that there appears to be many more black folks than white, etc. I love living in a multi-racial environment. Pasty white neighborhoods are borrring! Everyone is super friendly here.

We met our next door neighbors yesterday. I'm so gonna love living here.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Heck of an analogy, but I hear what you are saying.

Russia attacked, they don't get to claim victimhood; even if many of the soldiers are just civilians thrown into fatigues and sent to battle not knowing what's up.

That's what happens when you live in a communist country with a dictator in charge.

So now compare this to the stance for our poverty stricken citizens living in the ghetto. We have minimized their crimes using their situation as an excuse. Why does this not hold same for the soldiers over there living somewhat the same type of lack of choice life those in our ghettos do?

Compassion for those in dire situations need to be universal and not subjected to homeland proximity. The soldiers fighting under Putin's regime are not much different that those in the ghetto who commit crimes to get out. Victims of the situation. But I assure you. The risk of death for disobedience for them runs much much higher than the risk of death the average man in the ghetto faces.

 

[Chris Craig]

Oh so simple to say not, living under the oppression of such a guy like Putin. You don't think soldiers have the fear of execution for not following orders? And when the orders are vague, it leads to confusion. They are going to do what it takes to survive including avoiding execution of their leader for treason. However wrong their leader is.

They are afraid for sure. Many have given themselves up or joined the Ukraine military to escape that oppression. If everyone stood up against Putin, he couldn't kill everybody, and then he would be gone. You have to fight against oppression and against dictatorship to stop it.

 

[oldmangrouch]

No that isn't what I said at all. The tank would have no right to shoot a baby carriage. They cant outrun. but they could catch up and try to see whats going on.

The reasons Putin says they are there is irrelevant to the video and/or common warfare practice on the ground.


The car was driving towards the enemy. That in wartime is enough to have caution and possibly fire.

What do you think war Is? You think soldiers are going to let a car continue to drive towards them when they are at war? War is war and you are somewhat confirming the softness of American not having been in one to know the real time situation of it being us or them.

Just to be clear: these civilians died for (arguably) acting wrong. You believe the deaths are justified, or at least acceptable, because actions have consequences. At the same time, you are offended when that logic is applied to dead anti-vaxers.

 

[Orion Bailey]

They are afraid for sure. Many have given themselves up or joined the Ukraine military to escape that oppression. If everyone stood up against Putin, he couldn't kill everybody, and then he would be gone. You have to fight against oppression and against dictatorship to stop it.

I don't disagree. So be the first. IT will require many martyrs to create such a wave. Many civilian deaths before the tide turns, I fear. And I think they do to. Incredibly tough choices they have. Thats why I also have sympathy fore the Russian soldiers. They didn't have a choice where they were born any more than a child in the ghetto.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Poland ready to 'immediately donate' all its MIG-29 jets to the US Government and encourages other NATO allies to do the same

The US Wants Poland to give it to the Ukraine.

Poland wants to give them to the US to give to the Ukraine.

No one wants to take responsibility.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Just to be clear: these civilians died for (arguably) acting wrong. You believe the deaths are justified, or at least acceptable, because actions have consequences. At the same time, you are offended when that logic is applied to dead anti-vaxers.

No, Who said that? I didnt. I said I will push back against the RIDUCULE of antivaxxers. I dont feel any deaths are justified or acceptable. But I also understand the realism of war and that antivaxxers put themselves at risk. However I will always defend thier right to make that choice. Doesnt mean I agree with it. Just like in war. They made the choice to fire on the car. I dont have to agree with it., but I defend thier right to make sure they don't get hit first. Its war. If the car was driving away from them. I would have a MAJOR issue with it, just like I do the shelling of civilian apartments and what not.

I don't know how some of you come to your conclusions. That's a complete warped way of assessing what Ive said thus far.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Oh so simple to say not, living under the oppression of such a guy like Putin. You don't think soldiers have the fear of execution for not following orders? And when the orders are vague, it leads to confusion. They are going to do what it takes to survive including avoiding execution of their leader for treason. However wrong their leader is.

FWIW, I believe they answered these questions at Nuremburg.

 

[calvin natt]

Cant fit a rocket launcher in a car? a bag full of grenades and mines?

Your snark isn't logical.

It’s a war crime. You don’t blow up civilians. You can fit grenades in a 7 year olds backpack. Do you blow her up? Why do you think this is news? If it’s just part of war? Constantly defending Russia must be exhausting

 

[Orion Bailey]

It’s a war crime. You don’t blow up civilians. You can fit grenades in a 7 year olds backpack. Do you blow her up? Why do you think this is news? If it’s just part of war? Constantly defending Russia must be exhausting

You don't run up on the enemy. Period. You take the chance of being fired upon.

We will see if the event is tried as a war crime. I already answered the seven year olds backpack. same answer as the mother with a stroller. Apples to oranges. A kid with a backpack has to get up close to the tank. The car can drive fast. Your comparison is not the same.

Its news because its propaganda, much like 90 of the news. Gimme a break with the news. That's just head in sand mentality listening to the media.

Constantly being biased must raise the blood pressure alot.

 

[Chris Craig]

So now compare this to the stance for our poverty stricken citizens living in the ghetto. We have minimized their crimes using their situation as an excuse. Why does this not hold same for the soldiers over there living somewhat the same type of lack of choice life those in our ghettos do?

Compassion for those in dire situations need to be universal and not subjected to homeland proximity. The soldiers fighting under Putin's regime are not much different that those in the ghetto who commit crimes to get out. Victims of the situation. But I assure you. The risk of death for disobedience for them runs much much higher than the risk of death the average man in the ghetto faces.

Whoa...taking a leap there. You guys and your analogies.

Look,

We have not minimized the crimes of people living in ghettos. We have used the oppressive environment in which they live to understand why they might have been driven to commit crimes.

People from the ghetto who get charged for crimes often get much stiffer sentences than those who live elsewhere, sometimes 5 or ten times the sentence. That's not minimizing the crime.


We can do the same with Russian soldiers in regards to understanding why they might of out of fear for their lives put on fatigues and went off to war.

While we can understand what has led people either from the ghetto or the Russian army to kill others, it is not simply excused in either case.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

You don't run up on the enemy. Period. You take the chance of being fired upon.

We will see if the event is tried as a war crime. I already answered the seven year olds backpack. same answer as the mother with a stroller. Apples to oranges. A kid with a backpack has to get up close to the tank. The car can drive fast. Your comparison is not the same.

Its news because its propaganda, much like 90 of the news. Gimme a break with the news. That's just head in sand mentality listening to the media.

Constantly being biased must raise the blood pressure alot.

They didn't run up on the tank.

Watch the video again.



They saw the tank approaching from a side road and stopped.

Tank opened small arms fire, the car was still stopped.

Then the tank fired with its main gun killing them.