Politics Ukraine / Russia (8 Viewers)

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SlyPokerDog said:
1. A nuclear bomb exploding in the atmosphere can cause an EMP and not irradiate the population.
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Yes, but not large enough to cause any damage. The EMP isn't strong enough outside the sphere of the nuclear blast to disable electronic equipment.

2. US, China, and Russia are all working on weapons that cause a strong electromagnetic pulse and are not nuclear weapons.
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Is there any evidence of this working? As far as I've been able to find, they haven't even been able to impact 99% of the cars they've tested these on. And the only one or two which were possibly impacted, had things like turn signal malfunctions.

Seriously, I'd love to read anything about this you may have. I'm very interested in this technology.
 
Phatguysrule said:
What did he say that was wrong? I guess I'm just not seeing it. The original take was just cautioning people to be careful about their sources and said that he didn't know for certain what was going on.

I guess I just don't see the problem with it.
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The problem is that at the time there were multiple credible sources for the atrocities and he did not fully admit it even 11 years later. In other words, he was the original one to yell fake news when it was not. He subverted the facts to make a point.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Yes, but not large enough to cause any damage. The EMP isn't strong enough outside the sphere of the nuclear blast to disable electronic equipment.


Is there any evidence of this working? As far as I've been able to find, they haven't even been able to impact 99% of the cars they've tested these on. And the only one or two which were possibly impacted, had things like turn signal malfunctions.

Seriously, I'd love to read anything about this you may have. I'm very interested in this technology.
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Ever read about Carrington Event.

Here is one article about EMPs- https://mindmatters.ai/2022/03/putin-vs-ukraine-new-weapons-target-your-electronics-not-you/

This one, while it doesn't go into detail says 1 nuke can collapse the entire North American power grid. But there is not a nuke that can irradiate all of North America.
https://gokcecapital.com/emp-attack/
 
U.S. Prepares to Arrest Surge of Migrants at Southern Border but Welcome 100,000 Ukrainian Refugees.



This seems quite racist to me.
 
andalusian said:
The problem is that at the time there were multiple credible sources for the atrocities and he did not fully admit it even 11 years later. In other words, he was the original one to yell fake news when it was not. He subverted the facts to make a point.
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But I think he was warning that those sources were possibly being filtered/approved via US agencies first. At least that's how it comes off to me.

I didn't get "fake news" out of anything he said.

What media platform at the time was outside the sphere of US government influence?
 
Natebishop3 said:
Your own words. One group is migrants and the other is refugees. Do you understand the difference?
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I understand that America, as well as the rest of the white richer nations, turn away people of color, while accepting white refugees. Do you get that this policy is racist?

Don't bother, I am just feeding you back your own logic.

If you want to start a conversation by asking if: I am intelligent enough to understand your question, don't bother posting in my direction. I am.


Edit: This goes for everyone, not just the OP. You need to understand one thing. I don't like arguing, but by no fault of my own, I will take on, unknowingly, another persons attitude and feed it back to them. If people want an argument, I will unwillingly oblige them. Short version: crap in my cornflakes, and you get crap back. Simple.

One last thing. At my current level of recovery from the last 2 years, my social skills are crap. So, at this time, it may be very easy for me to miss or misread your intentions. Which will lead to misunderstandings.
 
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Road Ratt said:
.....Edit: This goes for everyone, not just the OP. You need to understand one thing. I don't like arguing, but by no fault of my own, I will take on, unknowingly, another persons attitude and feed it back to them. If people want an argument, I will unwillingly oblige them. Short version: crap in my cornflakes, and you get crap back. Simple.
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If you include fiber as part of a balanced diet, you'll be fine. :)
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Ever read about Carrington Event.

Here is one article about EMPs- https://mindmatters.ai/2022/03/putin-vs-ukraine-new-weapons-target-your-electronics-not-you/

This one, while it doesn't go into detail says 1 nuke can collapse the entire North American power grid. But there is not a nuke that can irradiate all of North America.
https://gokcecapital.com/emp-attack/
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Yes, I've heard about the Carrington event. But I've not seen any evidence that any country has the technology to duplicate that kind of pulse. A solar flare could literally scorch the earth... So it's a definitely a consideration.

Yeah, I've seen all of those concerns and I didn't realize that the only people who have studied the impacts of EMPs on our grid has been groups sponsored by our utility companies.

Not encouraging. I don't trust them.

We need a governmental agency to advise on science and technology research and funding like this, as well as education.

We should not be relying on corporations for this kind of thing.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
If I move to Canada because this country has gotten too fucked up and uncomfortable to live in any longer, does that make me an immigrant or a refugee? One person’s immigrant is another person’s refugee…….
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This is another great case of having a common language and the ability to verify definitions.

Definition of "refugee"
noun
a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
 
Phatguysrule said:
But I think he was warning that those sources were possibly being filtered/approved via US agencies first. At least that's how it comes off to me.

I didn't get "fake news" out of anything he said.

What media platform at the time was outside the sphere of US government influence?
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So, you believe All of the western media was influenced by the US government? And 11 years later, when all the data was proven to be right, he still did not walk it back. If this is not "fake news" cry, I do not know what is.

There is no doubt that 20,000 mass graves of Cambodians were found that were caused by the Khmer Rouge, you had Cambodian scholars on the ground that objected to this view, and yet, he continued to claim that it was American propaganda.
 
Two Russian fighter jets that violated Swedish airspace earlier this month 'were equipped with NUKES with the aim of scaring Stockholm'
  • Four planes had taken off from Kaliningrad in Russia before flying over Sweden
  • The jets violated the country's airspace over the island of Gotland on March 2
  • Two of the aircraft - Sukhoi 24 attack planes - are now said to have carried nukes
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...sh-airspace-earlier-month-equipped-NUKES.html
 
Phatguysrule said:
This is another great case of having a common language and the ability to verify definitions.

Definition of "refugee"
noun
a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
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So if the Republicans take control of Congress, that would make me a refugee……Got it!
 
andalusian said:
So, you believe All of the western media was influenced by the US government? And 11 years later, when all the data was proven to be right, he still did not walk it back. If this is not "fake news" cry, I do not know what is.

There is no doubt that 20,000 mass graves of Cambodians were found that were caused by the Khmer Rouge, you had Cambodian scholars on the ground that objected to this view, and yet, he continued to claim that it was American propaganda.
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No, I believe all of western media was inside the sphere of influence of the US government and as such, COULD have been influenced to spread propaganda.

I don't think encouraging people to be careful to verify their news sources is ever a bad thing or ever needs to be walked back.

If we were more cognizant of that our country would likely be in a much better place...
 
When I was in college early 70's I had a Cambodian classmate that gave a speech on how he and his family escaped the Khmer Rouge. He lost family to Pol Pot's brutal mass killings.
His speech touched many in the class including me.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
So if the Republicans take control of Congress, that would make me a refugee……Got it!
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To be more specific,
Under United States law, a refugee is someone who:

Is located outside of the United States
Is of special humanitarian concern to the United States
Demonstrates that they were persecuted or fear persecution due to race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or membership in a particular social group
Is not firmly resettled in another country
Is admissible to the United States

A refugee does not include anyone who ordered, incited, assisted, or otherwise participated in the persecution of any person on account of race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion.

For the legal definition of refugee, see section 101(a)(42) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA).
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https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/...ed States law, a,in a particular social group
 
Phatguysrule said:
No, I believe all of western media was inside the sphere of influence of the US government and as such, COULD have been influenced to spread propaganda.
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Cambodian scholars and people on the ground confirmed it. Even if there is influence of propaganda - by 1988 - there is no doubt that it was truth. This was a real genocide, if anything, the news did not paint a troubling enough picture of what happened - and he still continued to press the same nonsense.

I don't think encouraging people to be careful to verify their news sources is ever a bad thing or ever needs to be walked back.
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I would say that if multiple independent news organizations from around the world tell the same story - there is a big chance it is true - and when the facts are known 9 years after the demise of the Khmer Rouge regime to continue and doubt it... well, that's just idiotic. NC was just married to his theory that this was all anti-commuinst propaganda. It was not.

If we were more cognizant of that our country would likely be in a much better place...
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Does not change the fact that the one that was diverting the truth here was not the new media.
 
Road Ratt said:
I understand that America, as well as the rest of the white richer nations, turn away people of color, while accepting white refugees. Do you get that this policy is racist?

Don't bother, I am just feeding you back your own logic.

If you want to start a conversation by asking if: I am intelligent enough to understand your question, don't bother posting in my direction. I am.


Edit: This goes for everyone, not just the OP. You need to understand one thing. I don't like arguing, but by no fault of my own, I will take on, unknowingly, another persons attitude and feed it back to them. If people want an argument, I will unwillingly oblige them. Short version: crap in my cornflakes, and you get crap back. Simple.

One last thing. At my current level of recovery from the last 2 years, my social skills are crap. So, at this time, it may be very easy for me to miss or misread your intentions. Which will lead to misunderstandings.
Click to expand...

You're clearly not because one group is emigrating for work or other reasons, and the other group has been displaced because of war or genocide. The people of Ukraine didn't want to leave their homes. They were forced out.

Yes, most countries have regulations about who can emigrate to their country. I can't just move to Germany or Norway, despite having Norwegian heritage. I would have to apply just like everyone else. That's not racist. That's the law. But a lot of countries open up their borders to people who are in dire need because of war. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry, that's on you. It's not racist.
 
andalusian said:
Cambodian scholars and people on the ground confirmed it. Even if there is influence of propaganda - by 1988 - there is no doubt that it was truth. This was a real genocide, if anything, the news did not paint a troubling enough picture of what happened - and he still continued to press the same nonsense.



I would say that if multiple independent news organizations from around the world tell the same story - there is a big chance it is true - and when the facts are known 9 years after the demise of the Khmer Rouge regime to continue and doubt it... well, that's just idiotic. NC was just married to his theory that this was all anti-commuinst propaganda. It was not.



Does not change the fact that the one that was diverting the truth here was not the new media.
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I don't don't see any diversion from the truth or anything that would need to be walked back. Again, maybe I'm just missing it, but I didn't see a denial of any event or act from NC.

As such, nothing that would need to be walked back or retracted.

Again, I'm not tied to Noam or anything, I just don't understand the problem or harm in what he said.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You're clearly not because one group is emigrating for work or other reasons, and the other group has been displaced because of war or genocide. The people of Ukraine didn't want to leave their homes. They were forced out.

Yes, most countries have regulations about who can emigrate to their country. I can't just move to Germany or Norway, despite having Norwegian heritage. I would have to apply just like everyone else. That's not racist. That's the law. But a lot of countries open up their borders to people who are in dire need because of war. If you don't understand that, I'm sorry, that's on you. It's not racist.
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Except many southern border immigrants are running from war or genocide...
 
Road Ratt said:
I understand that America, as well as the rest of the white richer nations, turn away people of color, while accepting white refugees. Do you get that this policy is racist?
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I'm not going to argue now or ever that the US is perfect, obviously not. But your statement above is simply not true and unfair.

The most recent info I could find was 2019 but I assume the same story holds true 3 years later. The top 15 countries of origin that sent the most immigrants to the U.S. in 2019 were:
  1. Mexico - 156,052
  2. China - 62,248
  3. India - 54,495
  4. Dominican Republic - 49,911
  5. Philippines - 45,920
  6. Cuba - 41,641
  7. Vietnam - 39,712
  8. El Salvador - 27,656
  9. Jamaica - 21,689
  10. Colombia - 19,841
  11. Brazil - 19,825
  12. South Korea - 18,479
  13. Nigeria - 15,888
  14. Venezuela - 15,720
  15. Afghanistan - 10,136
I count zero "white" nations in the top 15.

The United States has the highest immigrant population in the world of 48.2 million. This is over 14.6% of the total U.S. population and about 20% of international immigrants worldwide.

So how about instead of finding ways to criticize the U.S. whenever they do something good, you actually acknowledge they're doing something good in regards to the Ukrainian refugees?
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
If I move to Canada because this country has gotten too fucked up and uncomfortable to live in any longer, does that make me an immigrant or a refugee? One person’s immigrant is another person’s refugee…….
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Like the Jan 6th defendant accepted as a "political refugee" in Belarus.
 
noknobs said:
I'm not going to argue now or ever that the US is perfect, obviously not. But your statement above is simply not true and unfair.

The most recent info I could find was 2019 but I assume the same story holds true 3 years later. The top 15 countries of origin that sent the most immigrants to the U.S. in 2019 were:
  1. Mexico - 156,052
  2. China - 62,248
  3. India - 54,495
  4. Dominican Republic - 49,911
  5. Philippines - 45,920
  6. Cuba - 41,641
  7. Vietnam - 39,712
  8. El Salvador - 27,656
  9. Jamaica - 21,689
  10. Colombia - 19,841
  11. Brazil - 19,825
  12. South Korea - 18,479
  13. Nigeria - 15,888
  14. Venezuela - 15,720
  15. Afghanistan - 10,136
I count zero "white" nations in the top 15.

The United States has the highest immigrant population in the world of 48.2 million. This is over 14.6% of the total U.S. population and about 20% of international immigrants worldwide.

So how about instead of finding ways to criticize the U.S. whenever they do something good, you actually acknowledge they're doing something good in regards to the Ukrainian refugees?
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Actually, in 2019, 44% of the immigrants to the US were Hispanic or Latino, 27% Asian, 10% Black - based on the immigrant's own race definition. We really do not need to look at the countries to see the distribution. That claim that the US rejects non-white immigrants is just flat out wrong.
 
Phatguysrule said:
This is another great case of having a common language and the ability to verify definitions.

Definition of "refugee"
noun
a person who has been forced to leave their country in order to escape war, persecution, or natural disaster.
Click to expand...

Many right-wing xtians claim to be victims of persecution because they are not allowed to burn gays and transgenders at the stake. Then you have the anti-mask/anti vaxxer types who compare themselves to Jews in Nazi germany. While I would be more than happy to hold the door for those folks as they leave, I would still call them emigrates, not refugees.

The issues just aren't that clear cut, and no matter where you draw the line there will disagreement.
 
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