Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

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Are you really so dense that you don't understand the difference between civilians and soldiers? i think you are. In reply to the guy who apparently has his account fixed so one can't reply to it. Such a clever little boy. Does he know that he could get paid for his clever trolling by the russians. Better look into it.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Are you really so dense that you don't understand the difference between civilians and soldiers? i think you are. In reply to the guy who apparently has his account fixed so one can't reply to it. Such a clever little boy. Does he know that he could get paid for his clever trolling by the russians. Better look into it.
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It's not that his account can't be replied to--it's simply that he didn't actually post any words of his own, so his post can't really be quoted...unless someone (like a mod, perhaps?) is cleverer. I've updated your first reply. :)
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
And my stupid brother can't understand why I don't like Musk!
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He simply needs to seed all connectivity decisions over Ukraine to the US government. And make the US government pay out the nose for it.

I honestly think this has happened by now, from the things I've heard on various podcasts.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Yup, ...F' Elon Musk.


Ukraine rips Elon Musk for disrupting sneak attack on Russian fleet with Starlink cutoff;

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/07/ukraine-rips-musk-disrupting-sneak-attack-russian-navy.html
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It shouldn't be Musk's responsibility. The US should be spending more on R&D and have it's own network that Ukraine could use. Or it should be compensating the private companies it uses HEAVILY and making all decisions in that region.

No individual can make the right calls in that situation.

This is the result of the US failing to lead. Failing to spend or invest on space exploration and the related industry that comes along with it.

This is absolutely a result of failed US policy and it will get worse as long as we as a country refuse to spend on education and the development of these technologies.

Musk is just a guy. He built a great toy that is incredibly useful. He doesn't have the information needed to make military decisions. And he shouldn't. He should not be in position to make decisions that can impact the defense of Ukraine. It's not his fault he's in that position. He's in that position because he's been successful at executing an ambitious vision made necessary by the lack of direction and leadership in the US government.
 
Phatguysrule said:
It shouldn't be Musk's responsibility. The US should be spending more on R&D and have it's own network that Ukraine could use. Or it should be compensating the private companies it uses HEAVILY and making all decisions in that region.

No individual can make the right calls in that situation.

This is the result of the US failing to lead. Failing to spend or invest on space exploration and the related industry that comes along with it.

This is absolutely a result of failed US policy and it will get worse as long as we as a country refuse to spend on education and the development of these technologies.

Musk is just a guy. He built a great toy that is incredibly useful. He doesn't have the information needed to make military decisions. And he shouldn't. He should not be in position to make decisions that can impact the defense of Ukraine. It's not his fault he's in that position. He's in that position because he's been successful at executing an ambitious vision made necessary by the lack of direction and leadership in the US government.
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The US does not lead the Ukranian war effort...we're just an ally....Iran doesn't lead Russia's either...just plays a supportive role like we do. NATO is leading the allied efforts and we're just a member who offers more financial support than any other country so far. The US has not declared war on Russia. Zelensky is leading his country, not Biden.
 
riverman said:
The US does not lead the Ukranian war effort...we're just an ally....Iran doesn't lead Russia's either...just plays a supportive role like we do. NATO is leading the allied efforts and we're just a member who offers more financial support than any other country so far. The US has not declared war on Russia. Zelensky is leading his country, not Biden.
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Yup, and no one held a gun to his head and made Musk "donate" all those starlink dishes/accounts to Ukraine. He initially attempted to convince us it was a humanitarian gesture but once he needed more capital he tried convince the US that he could no longer afford to do so and wanted the US to pick up the tab...the Pentagon promptly told him to F' off. It's my understand that the US is now at least partially reimbursing him.
 
riverman said:
The US does not lead the Ukranian war effort...we're just an ally....Iran doesn't lead Russia's either...just plays a supportive role like we do. NATO is leading the allied efforts and we're just a member who offers more financial support than any other country so far. The US has not declared war on Russia. Zelensky is leading his country, not Biden.
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No, but Starlink is a US based company, being asked to assist in a war the US is supporting both financial and strategically.

As such, the best policy would be the US making all decisions with that equipment and compensating the company at similar rates as any preferred contractor.

US companies should look forward to the financial windfall cooperating with the government in this way would give.
 
yankeesince59 said:
Yup, and no one held a gun to his head and made Musk "donate" all those starlink dishes/accounts to Ukraine. He initially attempted to convince us it was a humanitarian gesture but once he needed more capital he tried convince the US that he could no longer afford to do so and wanted the US to pick up the tab...the Pentagon promptly told him to F' off. It's my understand that the US is now at least partially reimbursing him.
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Nobody put a gun to his head, but Ukraine were sure grateful when he did it.

That kind of action and for thought should be encouraged and rewarded.

No private US company should be expected to assist the US government or their allies at a financial loss. In fact they should be rewarded handsomely for doing so.
 
My goodness...who said that Ukraine wasn't "grateful"?...of course they were, but that was never the point was it?

And has already been pointed out, the US is not at war with Russia, Ukraine is. Besides the US is already on the hook for billions of aid to Ukraine, more than all other countries combined. Must always has money in the back of his mind regardless of how he may sometimes pretends to lead us to believe. Although he initially "donated" starlinks to Ukraine he always expected to recoup a good bit of his money and as near as I can tell has.


Preview of coming attractions; "I didn't really say what I said".
 
riverman said:
The US does not lead the Ukranian war effort...
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riverman said:
Zelensky is leading his country, not Biden.
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These statements are highly debatable. Ukraine wouldn’t be at war right now without the nudging from the US. They would’ve been forced to sign a peace deal and make certain concessions. That country has been our personal playground for questionable dealings since at least 2014. It’s hard to make statements like yours when Joe Biden has the sway to have elected officials fired at the snap of his fingers and did that very thing. You’re talking about a country who’s entire cabinet was hand picked by Victoria Nuland as proven through leaked emails. Their previous leader was ejected through a US funded coup. They are a puppet government for the United States I’m sorry to say. It’s unfortunate for the people who live there, just as it has been for the citizens of other countries we’ve meddled with.
 
yankeesince59 said:
My goodness...who said that Ukraine wasn't "grateful"?...of course they were, but that was never the point was it?

And has already been pointed out, the US is not at war with Russia, Ukraine is. Besides the US is already on the hook for billions of aid to Ukraine, more than all other countries combined. Must always has money in the back of his mind regardless of how he may sometimes pretends to lead us to believe. Although he initially "donated" starlinks to Ukraine he always expected to recoup a good bit of his money and as near as I can tell has.


Preview of coming attractions; "I didn't really say what I said".
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None of that disputes anything I said.
 
And you didn't disprove anything I said...see how that works?

...and no one claimed that Musk was "expected" to do anything or that he should have been "responsible"...he supposedly "donated" them to Ukraine by his choice alone, and then shortly thereafter started whining to the US that he could not continue to foot the bill. The US has already paid for approximately 5,000 terminals.

...doesn't sound like much of a "donation" to me...more like a money grab.
 
jonnyboy said:
These statements are highly debatable. Ukraine wouldn’t be at war right now without the nudging from the US. They would’ve been forced to sign a peace deal and make certain concessions. That country has been our personal playground for questionable dealings since at least 2014. It’s hard to make statements like yours when Joe Biden has the sway to have elected officials fired at the snap of his fingers and did that very thing. You’re talking about a country who’s entire cabinet was hand picked by Victoria Nuland as proven through leaked emails. Their previous leader was ejected through a US funded coup. They are a puppet government for the United States I’m sorry to say. It’s unfortunate for the people who live there, just as it has been for the citizens of other countries we’ve meddled with.
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I'll debate that Russia invading Ukraine had more to do with Ukraine going to war than all the missles and money the US uses to prop up democracies around the globe. Arms dealers are the guys who love war. That's where you find your boogey men. Those guys have passports for multiple countries...it's not about nationalism from Russia, it's about power, greed and hatred. Don't get me wrong...there's plenty of that right here in the homeland but that's not why Ukraine is at war. If we had that kind of global power the Shah of Iran would've won that revolution...he didn't though. Russian, Chinese, North Korean and Iranian governments love your take on Ukraine though.....it's great propaganda.
 
jonnyboy said:
These statements are highly debatable. Ukraine wouldn’t be at war right now without the nudging from the US. They would’ve been forced to sign a peace deal and make certain concessions. That country has been our personal playground for questionable dealings since at least 2014. It’s hard to make statements like yours when Joe Biden has the sway to have elected officials fired at the snap of his fingers and did that very thing. You’re talking about a country who’s entire cabinet was hand picked by Victoria Nuland as proven through leaked emails. Their previous leader was ejected through a US funded coup. They are a puppet government for the United States I’m sorry to say. It’s unfortunate for the people who live there, just as it has been for the citizens of other countries we’ve meddled with.
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No. Ukraine wouldn't be at war right now if not for the Russian invasion...the US didn't have to "nudge" Ukraine to defend themselves. And there probably wouldn't have been a need for a "peace deal" or "concessions" from Russia because the Ukrainians would like have been slaughtered without the aid of the US and others. And I seriously doubt that Biden is the only POTUS to ever have elected officials fired or prevented them from being reelected. And the US did not install Zelensky as a puppet...he was elected by his people after receiving 73% of the vote...and believe or not, afterwards, no one stormed the capital in Kyiv in protest.
 
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yankeesince59 said:
And you didn't disprove anything I said...see how that works?

...and no one claimed that Musk was "expected" to do anything or that he should have been "responsible"...he supposedly "donated" them to Ukraine by his choice alone, and then shortly thereafter started whining to the US that he could not continue to foot the bill. The US has already paid for approximately 5,000 terminals.

...doesn't sound like much of a "donation" to me...more like a money grab.
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Uh oh...
"no one claimed that..."

When did he say anything was donated? I don't recall that.

He made it available to them. Which was a huge boost to the Ukraine effort.

He helped US interests in Ukraine more than pretty much any American has.

He's running a business... there is nothing wrong with a business expecting to be paid for services.

I see no reason for people to be angry with him over this. Musk shouldn't be expected to handle US foreign policy well. He certainly shouldn't be expected to do it for free or at the expense of his company.

And again. I don't like Elon Musk. But this is just a bunch of finger pointing caused by bad policy here in the US, which gave some billionaire more control over world communications than all of the United States...
 
Phatguysrule said:
He's running a business... there is nothing wrong with a business expecting to be paid for services.

I see no reason for people to be angry with him over this.
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Jesus Christ, man. The fucker "secretly shut down Starlink access off the coast of Crimea last year to thwart Ukraine's underwater USV attack on the Russian Navy." That has nothing to do with running a fucking business or US foreign policy.

Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.
 
noknobs said:
Jesus Christ, man. The fucker "secretly shut down Starlink access off the coast of Crimea last year to thwart Ukraine's underwater USV attack on the Russian Navy." That has nothing to do with running a fucking business or US foreign policy.

Get the fuck out of here with this bullshit.
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You can frame it however you want. He shouldn't have the capability to do that.

The US should have been in control of that equipment.

This is a very simple concept. It was a failure of the US government to allow that. I don't expect Elon Fucking Musk to make good foreign policy decisions.
 
You guys….

the obvious answer is let the government control everything because they have infinite money to pay everyone and keep infrastructure maintained and safe and universal health care and free housing and on and on…

government should control everything….

:doh:
 
lol, this is some funny shit.

...my "no one said" comment was a direct response to you claiming that Musk should not "be responsible" for or "expected to" provide starlinks to Ukraine. (those were you terms, not mine)...keep up.

And as far a "donated", that essentially is what it was initially and was the term I read and heard used most.. What's that difference between "gave" and "donated"...and please don't split hairs again by calling out the grammar police.


But hey, just for you...enjoy; https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-spacex-ukraine-starlink-government-funding
 
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