Politics Ukraine / Russia (2 Viewers)

[HansenYang]

You guys….

the obvious answer is let the government control everything because they have infinite money to pay everyone and keep infrastructure maintained and safe and universal health care and free housing and on and on…

government should control everything….

I know there are some that sincerely believe this.... but I REALLY hope this was sarcasm.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And yet you still don't get it. Weird hill for you to die on but enjoy.

The point is, if it wasn't Musk it would be somebody else, or we wouldn't have the capability at all and Russia would have had a lot more success.

Not sure what hill you're talking about. I'm not defending Musk. I'm simply directing the blame where it should be.

We should never be expecting billionaires to handle foreign policy just because they're billionaires. That's as dumb as voting for Trump in 2016...

 

[yankeesince59]

And yet you still don't get it. Weird hill for you to die on but enjoy.

SSDD...he tries to give the impression that he has the answer to every topic, and refuses to acknowledge when he's clearly wrong or over-stated his case...and loves to play word games.



..."sexual intellectual".

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I know there are some that sincerely believe this.... but I REALLY hope this was sarcasm.

Im a conservative.
Of course i meant it.

 

[Phatguysrule]

lol, this is some funny shit.

...my "no one said" comment was a direct response to you claiming that Musk should not "be responsible" for or "expected to" provide starlinks to Ukraine. (those were you terms, not mine)...keep up.

And as far a "donated", that essentially is what it was initially and was the term I read and heard used most.. What's that difference between "gave" and "donated"...and please don't split hairs again by calling out the grammar police.


But hey, just for you...enjoy; https://mashable.com/article/elon-musk-spacex-ukraine-starlink-government-funding

So you have one of his employees saying they received some funding from France and Poland but didn't "think" the US had given money, when asked.

And then SpaceX later updated their records to show that the US had indeed helped as well.

And you got that it was a claimed "donation" from where? That doesn't sound like a donation...

And even if it were a donation, the military should have been in control of any signal adjustments. That's just common sense.

Being all butt hurt over a billionaire caving to back channel nuclear threats from Russia is pretty stupid. Musk was obviously in over his head.

 

[Phatguysrule]

And yet you still don't get it. Weird hill for you to die on but enjoy.

You clearly don't.

As long as we can blame some billionaire who's in over his head for our failures as a world leader that's all that matters to some people.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You clearly don't.

As long as we can blame some billionaire who's in over his head for our failures as a world leader that's all that matters to some people.

Two way street my friend.

As long as we can claim the government can solve/ handle anything, thats all that matters to some people.

However unrealistic it is.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Two way street my friend.

As long as we can claim the government can solve/ handle anything, thats all that matters to some people.

However unrealistic it is.

It's my personal opinion that the government should handle foreign policy nearly all the time. But especially involving conflicts with aggressive authoritarian nuclear powers.

Apparently that's an unpopular opinion... Who knew!?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

It's my personal opinion that the government should handle foreign policy nearly all the time. But especially involving conflicts with aggressive authoritarian nuclear powers.

Apparently that's an unpopular opinion... Who knew!?

Foriegn policy, in which you are using it, is extremely vague.
In the context you have suggested, all trade should be handled by the government.
Elon Musk aNd starlink are a private entity.
So then should private businesses who sell products to any other Foreign Country be taken over by the government?

What you are advocating for is all private foriegn trade be handled by the government.

yes, I do believe you will find that opinion unpopular.

on a smaller scale that is like saying a city and county government should handle all home alarm systems. Thier sales, installation etc. after all, how does a home alarm system know who is worthy of protection and who isnt? Only the government knows this.

Some conjecture there for sure…

but the serious concern is trusting government to handle everything well like some do. It scares the crap out of me when i hear people say let the government control more.
Remember 911 and how our government created that over a 20 year span.
Does anyone remember oliver north?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Foriegn policy, in which you are using it, is extremely vague.
In the context you have suggested, all trade should be handled by the government.
Elon Musk aNd starlink are a private entity.
So then should private businesses who sell products to any other Foreign Country be taken over by the government?

What you are advocating for is all private foriegn trade be handled by the government.

yes, I do believe you will find that opinion unpopular.

on a smaller scale that is like saying a city and county government should handle all home alarm systems. Thier sales, installation etc. after all, how does a home alarm system know who is worthy of protection and who isnt? Only the government knows this.

Some conjecture there for sure…

but the serious concern is trusting government to handle everything well like some do. It scares the crap out of me when i hear people say let the government control more.
Remember 911 and how our government created that over a 20 year span.
Does anyone remember oliver north?

Lol. No. Not at all what I'm advocating for. I'm talking about the control of the US based company comms being used to directly communicate with and control weapons vs an aggressive authoritarian nuclear power during a conflict that has had worldwide repercussions.

No. You're off base. Way. WAY off base.

Nobody in this thread is suggesting the US Government should control everything. I've never made that suggestion. In fact, quite the opposite.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Lol. No. Not at all what I'm advocating for. I'm talking about the control of the US based company comms being used to directly communicate with and control weapons vs an aggressive authoritarian nuclear power during a conflict that has had worldwide repercussions.

No. You're off base. Way. WAY off base.

Nobody in this thread is suggesting the US Government should control everything. I've never made that suggestion. In fact, quite the opposite.

okay but, as at least one other person has noticed, your answer, as far as i had read and understood, is to pour more government money into whatever topic of discussion being had.
To keep this ON topic, is not starlink a communication program that could theoretically be used for many things beyond their current use of communication?
Don't think i think what Elon did is okay. But there is a difference between stepping in momentarily to fix a wrong by creating a government oversight and taking over complete control of all facets of foreign affairs regarding any parts or segments of anything weaponized military.
elon musk subs out a shitton of fabrication. So does mcdonald Douglas and Boeing, who all produce parts for the government military. These parts are assembled into warmachine/ weaponized items.
So what you are saying, if taken over, could have a huge domino affect reaching far beyond elon and his companies.
The government subs out to the lowest bidders. Not the best product makers of the world.

Im just sayin the government controlling something is not always the best answer, however it seems to be the answer you provide to almost any topic discussed here.

All good.

 

[yankeesince59]

So you have one of his employees saying they received some funding from France and Poland but didn't "think" the US had given money, when asked.

And then SpaceX later updated their records to show that the US had indeed helped as well.

And you got that it was a claimed "donation" from where? That doesn't sound like a donation...

And even if it were a donation, the military should have been in control of any signal adjustments. That's just common sense.

Being all butt hurt over a billionaire caving to back channel nuclear threats from Russia is pretty stupid. Musk was obviously in over his head.

I have no idea what the above ^^^ excreta is about.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I have no idea what the above ^^^ excreta is about.

You should read the link you posted. That's what its about.

 

[Phatguysrule]

okay but, as at least one other person has noticed, your answer, as far as i had read and understood, is to pour more government money into whatever topic of discussion being had.
To keep this ON topic, is not starlink a communication program that could theoretically be used for many things beyond their current use of communication?
Don't think i think what Elon did is okay. But there is a difference between stepping in momentarily to fix a wrong by creating a government oversight and taking over complete control of all facets of foreign affairs regarding any parts or segments of anything weaponized military.
elon musk subs out a shitton of fabrication. So does mcdonald Douglas and Boeing, who all produce parts for the government military. These parts are assembled into warmachine/ weaponized items.
So what you are saying, if taken over, could have a huge domino affect reaching far beyond elon and his companies.
The government subs out to the lowest bidders. Not the best product makers of the world.

Im just sayin the government controlling something is not always the best answer, however it seems to be the answer you provide to almost any topic discussed here.

All good.

You and whoever thinks that should read more about what I've said. If you had you'd know I specifically said that the government should be controlling the equipment as it relates to Ukraine. Specifically the equipment in (and signals and satellite movements pertaining to) Ukraine.

And I've also said that they should be paying SpaceX big money so that it's worth it for SpaceX.

This would remove the responsibility from Musk, which makes him less of a target for Russia and exposes him far less to bad publicity. And most importantly it prevents him from causing an international incident.

This should be agreeable to Musk. He should welcome it. It's basically what he was asking for (and frankly, I think it's the deal they've got now).

 

[yankeesince59]

You should read the link you posted. That's what its about.

Hmmm, a floor show, tap dancing, and evah thang !...geez, just come right out and either say what you wanna say or ask me what you wanna ask.

The fact is, I don't know where you're going with this...and I'm not sure you do either.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Hmmm, a floor shaw, tap dancing, and evah thang !...geez, just come right out and either say what you wanna say or ask me what you wanna ask.

The fact is, I don't know where you're going with this...and I'm not sure you do either.

Musk never claimed it was a donation. Neither did SpaceX, according to your link.

They specifically said that France and Poland helped, but didn't think the US had. Then later updated documents to show that the US had.

That's all in link you shared. That means SpaceX was getting paid. But it all happened very quickly, and Shotwell was unclear on some of the details at the time of that interview.

SpaceX Said they were glad comms were being helpful. SpaceX turned on the signal to Ukraine before they were scheduled to do so. They didn't have to do that.

Once again, nobody is defending Musk here. But he claims he received word from Russian insiders who told him that allowing Ukraine to attack Russia using SpaceX signals would result in a Russian nuclear response.

The US government should have been in control of that equipment over Ukraine before then. That's a terrible security risk. In fact, I'm somewhat surprised they weren't.

Maybe it was a lie. It was almost certainly a bluff. Elon Musk is not equipped to deal with that kind of situation.

 

[noknobs]

Once again, nobody is defending Musk here.

 

[yankeesince59]

Once again, nobody is defending Musk here.

.

Puhhhlease, just stop. That's exactly what you've been doing. So once again, you "didn't really mean what you said". (I predicted this would happen earlier yesterday) #4550

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

You and whoever thinks that should read more about what I've said. If you had you'd know I specifically said that the government should be controlling the equipment as it relates to Ukraine. Specifically the equipment in (and signals and satellite movements pertaining to) Ukraine.

And I've also said that they should be paying SpaceX big money so that it's worth it for SpaceX.

This would remove the responsibility from Musk, which makes him less of a target for Russia and exposes him far less to bad publicity. And most importantly it prevents him from causing an international incident.

This should be agreeable to Musk. He should welcome it. It's basically what he was asking for (and frankly, I think it's the deal they've got now).

Yeah? Lets list them and see who has revisionist history:

starlink… have the gov take over… that costs gov. money.

Homeless crisis.. build them free housing… that takes gov. money

Police enforcement… replicate camden that spent way more than their budget… costs gov. money.

Drug abuse… make drugs legal… currently costing Portland alot of gov. money.

Free addition help… costs gov. money.


So tell me again please, what topic has been discussed here that im wrong about your opinionated solution? Cause your answers are all to toss more gov. Spending out there to solve these things…

We need more education… that costs money. All the while information is more available than anytime in history, but our educTion keeps sinking. And your answer is to spend more money.

Maybe its you who should reread all your posts daily telling everyone how to handle these things, because you have not waivered from the answers being bigger gov….More gov spending.

not once have i seen you provide a privatized solution. Or is this yet another moment in a series of moments where you havent meant what you have said/typed?

Socialism is not the answer. Its a proven failure.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Yeah? Lets list them and see who has revisionist history:

starlink… have the gov take over… that costs gov. money.

Homeless crisis.. build them free housing… that takes gov. money

Police enforcement… replicate camden that spent way more than their budget… costs gov. money.

Drug abuse… make drugs legal… currently costing Portland alot of gov. money.

Free addition help… costs gov. money.


So tell me again please, what topic has been discussed here that im wrong about your opinionated solution? Cause your answers are all to toss more gov. Spending out there to solve these things…

We need more education… that costs money. All the while information is more available than anytime in history, but our educTion keeps sinking. And your answer is to spend more money.

Maybe its you who should reread all your posts daily telling everyone how to handle these things, because you have not waivered from the answers being bigger gov….More gov spending.

not once have i seen you provide a privatized solution. Or is this yet another moment in a series of moments where you havent meant what you have said/typed?

Socialism is not the answer. Its a proven failure.

Say you don't pay attention without saying you don't pay attention...

 

[Phatguysrule]

Puhhhlease, just stop. That's exactly what you've been doing. So once again, you "didn't really mean what you said". (I predicted this would happen earlier yesterday) #4550

Lol. It's hilarious how bitter you are.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Say you don't pay attention without saying you don't pay attention...

I asked you to correct me where im wrong and this is your response? And you want people to pay more attention to you?
Me thinks you know little about human behavior…and are not aware of your own posts and how they read.

Anyhow i posted how you read, but you want to make posts like this and “go to the gutter” responses, thats on you.
But ill predict you will then blame it on someone else….
Thats what people do when they are never wrong about anything… in their world….
I prefer reality.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Lol. It's hilarious how bitter you are.

he made a prediction and then verified it. I dont read anything bitter other than your post not rebutting, but again… “going to the gutter” type response…

You are too smart to not be aware you often say one thing and then claim you said something different.
Semantics dont change the overall gest of a topic of opinion.
Before you respond with another gutterball, id suggest stepping back, read the topics i posted and think about your solutions and what they entail. None dont involve more government reach, spending and control.

I do understand though that there are some people soo stubborn in their convictions they are oblivious to how they portray their solutions because they are sooo adamant they are right, they are blind to what they are actually saying.

All your solutions have been more government spending, reach and control.
Again. If im wrong, point it out… or toss another gutter ball into the conversation….

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I do understand though that there are some people soo stubborn in their convictions they are oblivious to how they portray their solutions because they are sooo adamant they are right, they are blind to what they are actually saying.

Did you really post this with a straight face?

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

Did you really post this with a straight face?

I did. Do you disagree? Or are you implying I'm being hypocritical? and if so i would ask what solutions have i proposed I'm so adamant about that i consider every other idea wrong?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I did. Do you disagree? Or are you implying I'm being hypocritical? and if so i would ask what solutions have i proposed I'm so adamant about that i consider every other idea wrong?

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[SharpeScooterShooter]

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Did you help eat the tacos?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Did you help eat the tacos?

I would have if asked.

So would you, lol.

Hey, that might make a good vlog, "Eating 100 tacos with Dog and Bender!" We just buy 100 tacos and then find random people to eat them with us while we discuss politics.

 

[SharpeScooterShooter]

I would have if asked.

So would you, lol.

Hey, that might make a good vlog, "Eating 100 tacos with Dog and Bender!" We just buy 100 tacos and then find random people to eat them with us while we discuss politics.

You are not thinking big enough. This is a full on tv reality series called
Sly’s Bender
episode 1: 100 tacos, ex girlfriends and politics

 

[yankeesince59]

Lol. It's hilarious how bitter you are.

Bitter?...seriously?...and now among other things, you fancy yourself as some sort of message board shrink?...My goodness, man, you wear so many hats, all of them extra large.