Politics Ukraine / Russia (1 Viewer)

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UKRAINEFAN said:
In this interview with Sky News, Zelenskii seems to be saying that if Ukraine could be given immediate NATO membership that they would be OK with the russian occupation of Ukrainian territory (that they already hold) until they could get it back diplomatically. Seems as if russia would have to give up some of that territory to get Kursk back though. This seems to be quite a concession since we know that russia doesn't actually have any belief that NATO threatens them, so they really give up nothing. For Ukraine's leaders, human life matters, which makes a successful negotiation difficult with a country that does not value human life. I would hope that the world would keep the sanctions on russia and also give to Ukraine at least some of the russian confiscated assets to help them rebuild the cities that russia has destroyed. As Zelenksyii says though, no one has made this offer to Ukraine.
https://news.sky.com/story/zelensky...aSL2HUeuIrAKeUwNiQ_aem_vi58YDU7MlSCDZTogamMog
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Ukraine is years away from being ready to join NATO. This is not an option.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Ukraine is years away from being ready to join NATO. This is not an option.
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Ukraine is certainly ready; it's just USA and Germany that are not ready for Ukraine. It definitely should be an option. They would be the strongest army in NATO besides USA. They use NATO weapons and a lot of their officers and soldiers have NATO training. They use a communications network that is synched with NATO. If they had been accepted into NATO years ago I believe there would be no war now.
 
Dozer said:
Hi, i have been reading up and i have to ask, what war is logical? When is war logical? I do not consider self defense war. Offensive aggression is war. When is war logical?

My point being, leaders who aggressively seek out war are typically not logical and will not follow the sound thinking most may have. To me, it is illogical to dismiss tragic actions from leaders, due to the act of aggression being illogical.
I would expect the unexpected from leaders who push for war.
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Yes, which is why we shouldn't bank on the idea that escalation wouldn't happen because both sides will be "logical".
 
Here's a snippet, from an article written by someone most of you probably adore, the infamous Michael Moore:
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This whole thing could have been over in 2022. But because the war has been dragged out, I don't expect Russia to be willing to give terms as favorable as it was offering in 2022. Ukraine was ready to sign until pressured not to by the West.

So that one act of sabotague cost 100's of thousands of lives, billions of dollars, and massive destruction, for negative benefit. So stupid. This is what sensible people have been saying from the start. But so many where swept up in the "yeaaah, beat the Russians!! mania"
 
beast blazer said:
This whole thing could have been over in 2022. But because the war has been dragged out, I don't expect Russia to be willing to give terms as favorable as it was offering in 2022. Ukraine was ready to sign until pressured not to by the West.
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BS. That is simply a claim being made by Putin. But the reality is that Ukraine was considering it until Russia (Putin) changed the terms. Then Ukraine took back Bucha and saw the atrocious way the civilian population had been treated as prisoners.

So that one act of sabotague cost 100's of thousands of lives, billions of dollars, and massive destruction, for negative benefit. So stupid. This is what sensible people have been saying from the start. But so many where swept up in the "yeaaah, beat the Russians!! mania"
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Yeah this whole paragraph (whole post) is based 100% on Russian propaganda.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
Ukraine should have demanded NATO membership as a condition of giving up their nukes. That was a huge mistake.
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Huge.

As soon as they asked for it, they should have been fast tracked into becoming a part of NATO. It would have forced Putin to back off. He's not about to start World War III he just wants to expand Russia back to its USSR days to look stronger and keep Russia afloat.
 
Chris Craig said:
He's not about to start World War III he just wants to expand Russia back to its USSR days to look stronger and keep Russia afloat.
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Well that’s a huge step back from the ridiculous shit I’ve been reading on here the past couple years. I must have missed the memo where we all changed our talking point to a new thing while pretending the insane bullshit rhetoric we’ve been spouting for the past couple years never happened. I hadn’t realized the Ukraine debate was running on Covid logic.
 
Phatguysrule said:
I would expect nothing less.You tend to ignore all information except the most Russia centric propaganda.
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You only post debunked and inaccurate information. That is when you actually post information. Most of the time i only see wacky theories and accusations of propaganda or Putin worship, which aren’t valid arguments.
 
jonnyboy said:
Well that’s a huge step back from the ridiculous shit I’ve been reading on here the past couple years. I must have missed the memo where we all changed our talking point to a new thing while pretending the insane bullshit rhetoric we’ve been spouting for the past couple years never happened. I hadn’t realized the Ukraine debate was running on Covid logic.
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Once again, you are full of it. This is what I (and many others) have been saying the entire time.
 
jonnyboy said:
You only post debunked and inaccurate information. That is when you actually post information. Most of the time i only see wacky theories and accusations of propaganda or Putin worship, which aren’t valid arguments.
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LMAO. Oh, do you have hurt feelings?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Once again, you are full of it. This is what I (and many others) have been saying the entire time.
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We’re not at war with Eurasia, we’re at war with Eastasia. We were never at war with Eurasia and nobody ever said as much.
 
jonnyboy said:
Well that’s a huge step back from the ridiculous shit I’ve been reading on here the past couple years. I must have missed the memo where we all changed our talking point to a new thing while pretending the insane bullshit rhetoric we’ve been spouting for the past couple years never happened. I hadn’t realized the Ukraine debate was running on Covid logic.
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Ummm.......the only person running around this board screaming about WWIII coming is @beast blazer. He's constantly terrified Putin is going to use nukes while the rest of us are pretty much saying, "bring it on" because we don't believe him. We've been pretty freakin' consistent, so I'm not sure what thin air you're pulling this most recent accusation from......Putin wants Russia's former (illicitly occupied) territories back. He's not getting any closer so he resorts to bluffing. The MAGAts are the ones pushing the WWIII narrative as an excuse to pull support for Ukraine.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
Ummm.......the only person running around this board screaming about WWIII coming is @beast blazer. He's constantly terrified Putin is going to use nukes while the rest of us are pretty much saying, "bring it on" because we don't believe him. We've been pretty freakin' consistent, so I'm not sure what thin air you're pulling this most recent accusation from......Putin wants Russia's former (illicitly occupied) territories back. He's not getting any closer so he resorts to bluffing. The MAGAts are the ones pushing the WWIII narrative as an excuse to pull support for Ukraine.
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Exactly
 
Great time for the military industrial complex to send their winter catalog to Georgia. Blackrock may give them a good quote on a rebuild as well.
 
jonnyboy said:
Great time for the military industrial complex to send their winter catalog to Georgia. Blackrock may give them a good quote on a rebuild as well.
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"Georgia should just let Russia take what they want!"
 
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