OT Unregulated capitalism killing the American Dream

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tlongII said:
Well that’s false.
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How so?

According to recent data from the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF), about 156,199,800 Americans, or around 49 percent of the country’s total population, receive employer-sponsored health insurance (also called group health insurance).
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https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/re... data from,also called group health insurance).

That's over half of the insured population, and 64 million are on Medicare, with another 30 million uninsured.

Not much choice for most Americans...
 
Phatguysrule said:
How so?


https://www.ehealthinsurance.com/resources/small-business/how-many-americans-get-health-insurance-from-their-employer#:~:text=According to recent data from,also called group health insurance).

That's over half of the insured population, and 64 million are on Medicare, with another 30 million uninsured.

Not much choice for most Americans...
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I’ve got multiple options to choose through work so it’s obviously false. There was no “most Americans” qualifier in the statement.
 
tlongII said:
I’ve got multiple options to choose through work so it’s obviously false. There was no “most Americans” qualifier in the statement.
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And you only have those options because your employer offers them. So it's not your choice, it's your employer's choice. They can take it away tomorrow if they want.

That's not freedom.
 
Phatguysrule said:
And you only have those options because your employer offers them. So it's not your choice, it's your employer's choice. They can take it away tomorrow if they want.

That's not freedom.
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Oh geez. The statement is false. Simple as that.
 
tlongII said:
Oh geez. The statement is false. Simple as that.
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Your employer is choosing what options you have. Not you. Most people's employers don't give them an option. Mine doesn't.

The statement is not false just because you say it is. You don't get to pick any doctor you want. You get to pick the ones your employer and your insurance allow you to pick.

Exactly what the statement said.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Your employer is choosing what options you have. Not you. Most people's employers don't give them an option. Mine doesn't.

The statement is not false just because you say it is. You don't get to pick any doctor you want. You get to pick the ones your employer and your insurance allow you to pick.

Exactly what the statement said.
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I get to choose my healthcare provider. The statement is false right there.
 
tlongII said:
I get to choose my healthcare provider. The statement is false right there.
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Until you don't. That's not a right that you have. It's a benifit your work allows.

That makes the statement true. Your work can take it away any time. If you switch jobs you lose it.

That makes the statement true.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Until you don't. That's not a right that you have. It's a benifit your work allows.

That makes the statement true. Your work can take it away any time. If you switch jobs you lose it.

That makes the statement true.
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I have choices. I could go with Kaiser, or I could go with a particular prover, or I can go with the preferred provider option. I use the preferred provider. Now it is correct that the provider you choose must be part of the plan, but I’ve never had to change providers other than when they retire. I have plenty of choices.
 
tlongII said:
I have choices. I could go with Kaiser, or I could go with a particular prover, or I can go with the preferred provider option. I use the preferred provider. Now it is correct that the provider you choose must be part of the plan, but I’ve never had to change providers other than when they retire. I have plenty of choices.
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So you have certain companies that your employer chooses, which covers certain providers that the insurance company chooses... Which means you have less choice than most people in most first world countries in the world.

And we pay more than any other country for that lack of choices.

So what exactly is your point of contention?
 
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Phatguysrule said:
So you have certain companies that your employer chooses, which covers certain providers that the insurance company chooses... Which means you have less choice than most people in most first world countries in the world.

And we pay more than any other country for that lack of choices.

So what exactly is your point of contention?
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My point of contention is that I do in fact have choices. But you know that.
 
Do you think there is any correlation between the fact that the US has the best doctors in the world and our lack of universal healthcare?
 
tlongII said:
Do you think there is any correlation between the fact that the US has the best doctors in the world and our lack of universal healthcare?
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Great doctors come from great universities. I don't see universal healthcare changing that.
 
tlongII said:
Please see the first post I responded to in this thread.
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I did. It didn't say you had no choice. It said your employer chooses your insurance, which you confirmed, and your insurance chooses your provider. Which, again, you confirmed.

You being allowed to pick which restrictions you'll be subjected to is the choice you've held up as the gold standard.

Which is less choice than pretty much every first world country in the world.

But at no point was the post you're referring to untrue, as you claimed.
 
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Phatguysrule said:
I did. It didn't say you had no choice. It said your employer chooses your insurance, which you confirmed, and your insurance chooses your provider. Which, again, you confirmed.

You being allowed to pick which restrictions you'll be subjected to is the choice you've held up as the gold standard.

Which is less choice than pretty much every first world country in the world.

But at no point was the post you're referring to untrue, as you claimed.
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False. I am offered options for choosing my insurance and provider.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Why does that list matter if Americans receive substandard healthcare? Is that like saying my brother can beat up your brother so I'm a better softball player than you?
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It matters because I think there is a correlation.
 
tlongII said:
It matters because I think there is a correlation.
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A correlation to worse healthcare outcomes than comparable countries who pay far less and have more options?

I don't see how that's something to strive for...
 
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The State of Oregon Pers offers options for both medicare and non medicare.
I can purchase non PERS sponsored insurance for less by going direct to the same companies or others. Its like purchasing automobile insurance.
 
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