Politics US Navy FIRES captain of coronavirus-stricken aircraft carrier USS Theodore Roosevelt

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The president is in charge of so much. Should they be required to have experience in everything they are going to oversee? Isn't that generally why they appoint people to help with those matters?
They most certainly should have military experience if they are going to send Americans to die. What part of “the president makes the final decision to go to war” don’t you understand??? We do not go to war unless the president says so. You cannot begin to have a clue as to what is involved until you have actually experienced the military. Sorry, but there it is. Argue till the cows come home. Playing army in your backyard is not an acceptable substitute.
 
They most certainly should have military experience if they are going to send Americans to die. What part of “the president makes the final decision to go to war” don’t you understand??? We do not go to war unless the president says so. You cannot begin to have a clue as to what is involved until you have actually experienced the military. Sorry, but there it is. Argue till the cows come home. Playing army in your backyard is not an acceptable substitute.

Yeah I'll disagree with that.
 
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They most certainly should have military experience if they are going to send Americans to die. What part of “the president makes the final decision to go to war” don’t you understand??? We do not go to war unless the president says so. You cannot begin to have a clue as to what is involved until you have actually experienced the military. Sorry, but there it is. Argue till the cows come home. Playing army in your backyard is not an acceptable substitute.
But again, hes often making the final decisions about many things. I get sending people to die is a horrific and scary thing. They put people in power that they trust to make the right decisions, and then act upon them. They have the final say on signing the budget each year. Do they need to be an accountant? They have final say on health care legislation. Do they need to be an insurance specialist or a doctor? A lot more lives are impacted by the decisions made over our healthcare, education, etc. than likely are by sending someone to war. Why does that one need experience and the others dont? That just seems like a ridiculous litmus test to me.
 
And I believe, technically, we don't get to declare war unless congress says so. So now we need all of them to have military experience as well, I suppose. So why have a democracy, when it seems we need a stratocracy?
 
But again, hes often making the final decisions about many things. I get sending people to die is a horrific and scary thing. They put people in power that they trust to make the right decisions, and then act upon them. They have the final say on signing the budget each year. Do they need to be an accountant? They have final say on health care legislation. Do they need to be an insurance specialist or a doctor? A lot more lives are impacted by the decisions made over our healthcare, education, etc. than likely are by sending someone to war. Why does that one need experience and the others dont? That just seems like a ridiculous litmus test to me.
Let me guess, you were never in the military.
 
And I believe, technically, we don't get to declare war unless congress says so. So now we need all of them to have military experience as well, I suppose. So why have a democracy, when it seems we need a stratocracy?
It helps but it's more important that the man who sets the tone when it comes to war is the most important person to have some sort of military experience.
 
I was not in the military but like almost everyone I have a lot of family members who were, and I also have a couple who are very ranking members of the air force. I dont know if I’d say it should be a requirement to have military experience but there are some important things learned in the military in regards to leadership that is very rare for civilian life, and in a situation like this would make a huge difference.

Take for instance the chain of the command and delegation. Not only do members of the military have a clear understanding who is in charge, but when they have “specialists”, they understand heavily that you let the specialists do their jobs. You learn that a leaders job is to take responsibility for what arises, deflection is much less likely.

Almost every job teaches skills and you can get many important skills in civilian work, but the military provides a unique experience in leadership, delegation, teamwork, putting others needs in front of your own, and a plethora of other things that having success in the military can be a very good thing for the leaders.

In fact, Id venture to bet, most of the “best” leaders had military experience.
 
Lincoln so far as I know did not serve, neither did FDR. I can think of some of the worst heads of state I world history who had military experience. Hitler, Mao, Pinochet.

Acting Secretary of Navy got the job in November after previous secretary objected to pardoning war criminals. Trump needed someone more loyal to him. This jerk flew to Guam at taxpayer expense to go before sailors and insult their captain.
 
Lincoln so far as I know did not serve, neither did FDR. I can think of some of the worst heads of state I world history who had military experience. Hitler, Mao, Pinochet.

Acting Secretary of Navy got the job in November after previous secretary objected to pardoning war criminals. Trump needed someone more loyal to him. This jerk flew to Guam at taxpayer expense to go before sailors and insult their captain.
Exceptions to general statements dont make a case. I did not offer any absolutes in fact I said I wouldn't make it a requirement.

Kinda funny though that you circled it back to Trump because he wasnt just some one who lacked military experience he dodged the draft.
 
I understand why emotionally people put the military in its own special category, because people very obviously and viscerally are wounded or die--but as RR7 pointed out, many other types of decisions have a huge impact on people living or dying, potentially more people than in a war, even if you don't get to see them die yourself. The idea that the President needs to have expertise specifically in the military simply shrinks the pool of potential options, reducing the chances of electing the best person, for no good reason. Any President who wasn't a general is going to be out of their depth anyway in making high level decisions themselves, even if they were enlisted for a year or two. No President should be doing that--they should be relying on the advice of their joint chiefs of staff and balancing their advice against diplomatic options (which they should also have advisors for).

A President shouldn't need to be an expert at any specific thing--they should be people with good judgment, a good ability to synthesize many different types of information and priorities, and good communication skills. Certainly, that could be someone from the military, but it doesn't have to be.
 
A President shouldn't need to be an expert at any specific thing--they should be people with good judgment, a good ability to synthesize many different types of information and priorities, and good communication skills.

Now don't be sad
'Cause zero out of three ain't bad
Now don't be sad
'Cause zero out of three ain't bad

barfo
 
Lincoln so far as I know did not serve, neither did FDR. I can think of some of the worst heads of state I world history who had military experience. Hitler, Mao, Pinochet.

Acting Secretary of Navy got the job in November after previous secretary objected to pardoning war criminals. Trump needed someone more loyal to him. This jerk flew to Guam at taxpayer expense to go before sailors and insult their captain.
Lincoln served in the Illinois militia during the Blackhawk Wars as Captain of his company but never saw combat. Minimal experience but at least he had an idea......
 
Lincoln served in the Illinois militia during the Blackhawk Wars as Captain of his company but never saw combat. Minimal experience but at least he had an idea......

Well, he got assassinated. I like Presidents that don't get assassinated, ok?

barfo
 
Lincoln so far as I know did not serve, neither did FDR. I can think of some of the worst heads of state I world history who had military experience. Hitler, Mao, Pinochet.

Acting Secretary of Navy got the job in November after previous secretary objected to pardoning war criminals. Trump needed someone more loyal to him. This jerk flew to Guam at taxpayer expense to go before sailors and insult their captain.
FDR was Assistant Secretary of the Navy before becoming President. He volunteered to serve in the Navy during WWI but Wilson wanted him to continue in his job as Assistant Secretary.
 
Navy secretary trashes coronavirus aircraft carrier's fired captain as 'naive' and 'stupid' in speech to sailors who cheered 'hero' - then self-pitying bureaucrat says he axed commander because it's what Donald Trump 'would want'
  • Thomas Modly, President Trump's acting Navy secretary, told sailors on the USS Theodore Roosevelt that their fired captain was 'naive' and 'stupid'
  • Modly complained about the memo Captain Brett Crozier about a coronavirus outbreak on the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier
  • 'If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out ... then he was either A) too naïve or too stupid to be a commanding officer,' he said
  • Modly relieved Crozier of his command after letter went public
  • And he said he did it because he thought President Trump would want him to
  • 'If I were president, and I saw a commanding officer of a ship exercising such poor judgment, I would be asking why the leadership of the Navy wasn't taking action itself,' he said
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...raft-carriers-fired-captain-naive-stupid.html


I only caught a moment of yesterday's briefing, but it sounded to me like Trump praised the captain for an excellent career, but that he screwed up...and that "people screw up"..and that he is looking into, perhaps, the captain being reinstated, or whatever.
 
Let me see, rumors have it that trump is the one that told the ACTING (POORLY) Secretary of the Navy to fire the captain and then now acts like he wants to be a hero and look into it. Another example of poor leadership and looking out only for ones self. I'm sure the trumpers will spin it.
 
Let me see, rumors have it that trump is the one that told the ACTING (POORLY) Secretary of the Navy to fire the captain and then now acts like he wants to be a hero and look into it. Another example of poor leadership and looking out only for ones self. I'm sure the trumpers will spin it.


I haven't really been keeping up with this, so, sorry if any of this has already been shared.

https://apnews.com/5506d2d5fae6b1d3a8430ead966f21d8

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly said the ship’s commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, “demonstrated extremely poor judgment” in the middle of a crisis. He said the captain copied too many people on the memo, which was leaked to a California newspaper and quickly spread to many news outlets.

Modly’s decision to remove Crozier as ship commander was immediately condemned by members of the House Armed Services Committee, who called it a “destabilizing move” that will “likely put our service members at greater risk and jeopardize our fleet’s readiness.”

I'm not aware of the "rumors" that Trump wanted the Secretary of the Navy to fire the captain.
 
I haven't really been keeping up with this, so, sorry if any of this has already been shared.

https://apnews.com/5506d2d5fae6b1d3a8430ead966f21d8

Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly said the ship’s commander, Capt. Brett Crozier, “demonstrated extremely poor judgment” in the middle of a crisis. He said the captain copied too many people on the memo, which was leaked to a California newspaper and quickly spread to many news outlets.

Modly’s decision to remove Crozier as ship commander was immediately condemned by members of the House Armed Services Committee, who called it a “destabilizing move” that will “likely put our service members at greater risk and jeopardize our fleet’s readiness.”

I'm not aware of the "rumors" that Trump wanted the Secretary of the Navy to fire the captain.

He definitely endorsed it. Quit drinking the trump koolaid.

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BREAKING NEWS: Navy secretary who called Theodore Roosevelt captain 'naive' and 'stupid' for trying to protected sailors from coronavirus QUITS
  • Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly resignedTuesday as lawmakers pressured President Donald Trump to take action
  • Acting Undersecretary of the Army, James McPherson, has been tapped by Pentagon officials to succeed Modly
  • Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee demanded Modly quit or be terminated
  • Modly caused a fire storm when he flew 8,000 miles to Guam to launch a tirade against fired Captain Brett Crozier to his crew on the USS Theodore Roosevelt
  • Modly was forced to apologize after President Trump said he may interfere
  • 'I'm good at settling these arguments. So I may look into it,' Trump said
  • He declined to say what exactly he may do to aid the captain
  • Modly told sailors their fired captain was 'naive' and 'stupid'
  • Modly complained about the memo Crozier wrote about a coronavirus outbreak on the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier that ended up in the media
  • 'If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out ... then he was either A) too naïve or too stupid to be a commanding officer,' he said
  • Modly relieved Crozier of his command after letter went public
  • And he said he did it because he thought President Trump would want him to
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...demands-Donald-Trump-FIRE-navy-secretary.html
 
Where's your ship? We'll send him your way.

Well, he's a petty douchebag. I like acting navy secretaries that aren't petty douchebags, ok?

barfo
 
BREAKING NEWS: Navy secretary who called Theodore Roosevelt captain 'naive' and 'stupid' for trying to protected sailors from coronavirus QUITS
  • Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly resignedTuesday as lawmakers pressured President Donald Trump to take action
  • Acting Undersecretary of the Army, James McPherson, has been tapped by Pentagon officials to succeed Modly
  • Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee demanded Modly quit or be terminated
  • Modly caused a fire storm when he flew 8,000 miles to Guam to launch a tirade against fired Captain Brett Crozier to his crew on the USS Theodore Roosevelt
  • Modly was forced to apologize after President Trump said he may interfere
  • 'I'm good at settling these arguments. So I may look into it,' Trump said
  • He declined to say what exactly he may do to aid the captain
  • Modly told sailors their fired captain was 'naive' and 'stupid'
  • Modly complained about the memo Crozier wrote about a coronavirus outbreak on the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier that ended up in the media
  • 'If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out ... then he was either A) too naïve or too stupid to be a commanding officer,' he said
  • Modly relieved Crozier of his command after letter went public
  • And he said he did it because he thought President Trump would want him to
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...demands-Donald-Trump-FIRE-navy-secretary.html

What a dumbass. I’d say that he was either too naive or stupid to be acting Secretary of the Navy.

Correction. Wrong conjunction. Too naive AND stupid to hold that office.
 
Well, he's a petty douchebag. I like acting navy secretaries that aren't petty douchebags, ok?

barfo

Actually, I was agreeing. You do have a plank, don't you?
 
BREAKING NEWS: Navy secretary who called Theodore Roosevelt captain 'naive' and 'stupid' for trying to protected sailors from coronavirus QUITS
  • Acting Navy Secretary Thomas Modly resignedTuesday as lawmakers pressured President Donald Trump to take action
  • Acting Undersecretary of the Army, James McPherson, has been tapped by Pentagon officials to succeed Modly
  • Speaker Nancy Pelosi and the chairman of the House Armed Services Committee demanded Modly quit or be terminated
  • Modly caused a fire storm when he flew 8,000 miles to Guam to launch a tirade against fired Captain Brett Crozier to his crew on the USS Theodore Roosevelt
  • Modly was forced to apologize after President Trump said he may interfere
  • 'I'm good at settling these arguments. So I may look into it,' Trump said
  • He declined to say what exactly he may do to aid the captain
  • Modly told sailors their fired captain was 'naive' and 'stupid'
  • Modly complained about the memo Crozier wrote about a coronavirus outbreak on the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier that ended up in the media
  • 'If he didn't think, in my opinion, that this information wasn't going to get out ... then he was either A) too naïve or too stupid to be a commanding officer,' he said
  • Modly relieved Crozier of his command after letter went public
  • And he said he did it because he thought President Trump would want him to
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...demands-Donald-Trump-FIRE-navy-secretary.html

and now he is no longer acting Secretary of Navy, but is still guilty of being a douche. He should have been fired rather than allowing him to resign and somehow he will end up with another job that trump will give him. Of all the petty firings trump has done and this guy gets to walk away now. Another great example of poor leadership.
 
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