Utilizing the TPE for asset acquisition

[RR7]

Another new thread from me, which I'm sure also has been slightly covered in other threads, but with the recent loss of the Pelicans pick as an asset, have been brainstorming on methods of using our large TPE as cap space essentially to acquire additional assets. Whether to then turn and flip those for someone like Grant, or making the trade of our 6 pick more palatable...
So who are some teams that might be looking to dump salary? There's very few teams with cap space this year, so someone might place good value on the ability to offer slightly more than the mle to out bid other teams. That's where we come in.
Or maybe it's used as incentive to grease the wheels on a deal. Grant for Bledsoe, and we'll take olynk off your hands so you have space to chase Brunson, etc.
Basically, another specialized brainstorming thread.

 

[wizenheimer]

it takes a lot of work to try and figure which teams will have real cap-space and which teams won't. For instance, Blazers only have 93M in guaranteed salary which 'leaves' 29M in cap-space, but we know the Blazers almost certainly won't have any

I'm not sure how much value those TPE's will have at the draft or during the off-season. Probably some. But I'd tend to believe they'll have a lot more value approaching the trade deadline

 

[Freshtown]

Our TPE is the new Raef Lafrentz Expiring Contract.

 

[RR7]

it takes a lot of work to try and figure which teams will have real cap-space and which teams won't. For instance, Blazers only have 93M in guaranteed salary which 'leaves' 29M in cap-space, but we know the Blazers almost certainly won't have any

I'm not sure how much value those TPE's will have at the draft or during the off-season. Probably some. But I'd tend to believe they'll have a lot more value approaching the trade deadline

I'm thinking of deals similar to, like, last season, Detroit traded plumlee, a useful C, and the recent #37 pick to get off of plumlees deal. I imagine there should be deals similar.

 

[Hoopguru]

I'm thinking of deals similar to, like, last season, Detroit traded plumlee, a useful C, and the recent #37 pick to get off of plumlees deal. I imagine there should be deals similar.

Warriors....

 

[illmatic99]

I'm thinking of deals similar to, like, last season, Detroit traded plumlee, a useful C, and the recent #37 pick to get off of plumlees deal. I imagine there should be deals similar.

Hawks have the #16 pick and a 147 mil payroll for next year. I'll take a salary dump of Huerter, Bogdanovic, or maybe even Gallo for that pick. Ideally we send Bledsoe out in the deal too so we can retain our TPE.

 

[RR7]

Hawks have the #16 pick and a 147 mil payroll for next year. I'll take a salary dump of Huerter, Bogdanovic, or maybe even Gallo for that pick. Ideally we send Bledsoe out in the deal too so we can retain our TPE.

Bogdanovic and 16 for 36. Then turn around and move 16 with Bledsoe guaranteed at 16 million and 2 future 2nds for Grant.
Dame/simons/Bogdanovic/grant/nurk
With Hart, little, Winslow, Watford and #6 off the bench is a solid rotation, IMO.

 

[illmatic99]

How about Denver?

MPJ's contract kicks in next year, so they're gonna have:

Jokic -- 34 mil, with a possible superduper max extension for the next year coming this summer.
Murray -- 32 mil
MPJ -- 30 mil
Gordon -- 20mil
Barton -- 14 mil
Morris -- 9 mil
Green -- 8 mil

They have nearly 156 mil in real $ contracts (and not just capholds).

That Gordon deal would slot in perfectly to our TPE AND they have the #21 pick. Curious to see what they do if they get swept.

 

[illmatic99]

Bogdanovic and 16 for 36. Then turn around and move 16 with Bledsoe guaranteed at 16 million and 2 future 2nds for Grant.
Dame/simons/Bogdanovic/grant/nurk
With Hart, little, Winslow, Watford and #6 off the bench is a solid rotation, IMO.

just takes a lil bit of creativity and steadfast negotiation. I just dunno if Cronin is the guy for it.

 

[illmatic99]

Joe Harris (39 mil/ 2 yrs) + #23 for Bledsoe? He's not completely useless but he's gotta healthy first.

Then move 23 + TPE for something?

 

[illmatic99]

Last one, prolly a dream but Markkenen + 14 would be interesting. I don't think Lauri is anything more than a bench player on a good team at this point, nor do i think CLE would dump him using the #14 pick. But I want to see what their plans are with Sexton. Garland also is going to be a max candidate the next year, so their books might get tight even with Love's contract expiring in 2023.

 

[wizenheimer]

Hawks have the #16 pick and a 147 mil payroll for next year. I'll take a salary dump of Huerter, Bogdanovic, or maybe even Gallo for that pick. Ideally we send Bledsoe out in the deal too so we can retain our TPE.

Bledsoe would have to be guaranteed before he's traded and that wouldn't save the Hawks any money next year. No incentive for them

 

[illmatic99]

Bledsoe would have to be guaranteed before he's traded and that wouldn't save the Hawks any money next year. No incentive for them

i thought there was debate around this. is this for certain?

Switch Bogie with Huerter and you save them quite a bit more long term $ if that's the case.

 

[RR7]

i thought there was debate around this. is this for certain?

Switch Bogie with Huerter and you save them quite a bit more long term $ if that's the case.

Yes, he can only be traded for whatever amount is guaranteed. So any amount between 3.9 and 19ish.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Our TPE is the new Raef Lafrentz Expiring Contract.

This seems likely, especially without being able to combine it with a lotto pick...

 

[wizenheimer]

Yes, he can only be traded for whatever amount is guaranteed. So any amount between 3.9 and 19ish.

I'm confused by this. I get that in order to trade him for the full amount he'd have to be guaranteed, then it's just normal trade rules applied to his 19M salary

but the 3.9M guarantee could be traded as well, even though he'd be a free agent next season? I thought the NBA closed that loophole in the last CBA? Or am I thinking of team options...? Or maybe the 3.9M can be traded until his guarantee date....which would be 6/28?

maybe I've stumbled my way into understanding

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Yes, he can only be traded for whatever amount is guaranteed. So any amount between 3.9 and 19ish.

This is only for outgoing salary matching purposes.

Whoever receives Bledsoe has to be able to accept his full contract value.

For example a trade with Detroit:
Grant -> received into TPE
Bledsoe -> Grant's salary
In this scenario, Bledsoe's contract would not have to be guaranteed any further.

Versus a trade with Atlanta:
Collins -> Bledsoe (contract is too large for TPE)
Bledsoe -> Collins
In this scenario, Bledsoe's contract would have to be guaranteed to a point where Portland could legally obtain Collins (almost fully).

 

[Sheldon Shape]

This seems likely, especially without being able to combine it with a lotto pick...

It essentially can. Just technically two separate transactions.

 

[blazerkor]

This seems likely, especially without being able to combine it with a lotto pick...

I do think we're allowed to send the rights to our pick to any team and that they don't have to match the rights to that pick with any outgoing salary. So essentially you can always package a pick with a TPE, even after you've made it but not after you've signed the player you've taken with that pick.

 

[e_blazer]

I do think we're allowed to send the rights to our pick to any team and that they don't have to match the rights to that pick with any outgoing salary. So essentially you can always package a pick with a TPE, even after you've made it but not after you've signed the player you've taken with that pick.

I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here. As I understand it, TPEs can only be used in a trade to acquire a player who's salary is greater than what is being sent out to the other team. TPEs can't be traded themselves. A pick, as you say, has no salary value in a trade so it can always be added to a deal.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Ahh reminds me of the Raef LaFrentz Golden Ticket.

Most likely it will have the same fate, expiring unused, with the team saving payroll $

 

[blazerkor]

I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying here. As I understand it, TPEs can only be used in a trade to acquire a player who's salary is greater than what is being sent out to the other team. TPEs can't be traded themselves. A pick, as you say, has no salary value in a trade so it can always be added to a deal.

TPEs can be used to absorb a salary in a trade up to the value of the TPE. That's all there is to a TPE. So anything you send to the team along with the TPE has to be viewed as a separate deal. Picks and in our case rights to picks can be traded without any salary coming back.

 

[e_blazer]

TPEs can be used to absorb a salary in a trade up to the value of the TPE. That's all there is to a TPE. So anything you send to the team along with the TPE has to be viewed as a separate deal. Picks and in our case rights to picks can be traded without any salary coming back.

Okay, that’s more clear. Larry Coons speaks of trading a pick to a team and receiving a player that fits into the TPE, but that’s largely semantics as to whether it’s one deal or two.

So, let’s look at the Grant situation. Reportedly, the Pistons have been asking for 2 first rounders or a first and a promising young player. Nobody has been willing to pony up that much for him so far. The Blazers had been hoping that they would get the Pelicans’ pick and that it being a lottery pick would be sufficient to entice the Pistons to part with Grant. That plan blew up.

So what’s the fallback plan? We all agree that giving the Blazers own pick is too much for Grant. So, it looks like they could offer the 2025 Bucks pick, but they would have to sweeten their offer with either another pick or a young player who the Pistons might value. Let’s say the Blazers would be willing to include Little in the package. They would have to structure this as two trades: Grant fits neatly into the TPE. Little and the Bucks pick would have to be a second trade for a Pistons scrub or two who would fit into Little’s salary. The Pistons would also end up with their own TPE as a result of not getting any salary back for Grant.

Do I have this right?

Edit: Just to be clear, this is a hypothetical example, not a proposed trade.

 

[wizenheimer]

Okay, that’s more clear. Larry Coons speaks of trading a pick to a team and receiving a player that fits into the TPE, but that’s largely semantics as to whether it’s one deal or two.

So, let’s look at the Grant situation. Reportedly, the Pistons have been asking for 2 first rounders or a first and a promising young player. Nobody has been willing to pony up that much for him so far. The Blazers had been hoping that they would get the Pelicans’ pick and that it being a lottery pick would be sufficient to entice the Pistons to part with Grant. That plan blew up.

So what’s the fallback plan? We all agree that giving the Blazers own pick is too much for Grant. So, it looks like they could offer the 2025 Bucks pick, but they would have to sweeten their offer with either another pick or a young player who the Pistons might value. Let’s say the Blazers would be willing to include Little in the package. They would have to structure this as two trades: Grant fits neatly into the TPE. Little and the Bucks pick would have to be a second trade for a Pistons scrub or two who would fit into Little’s salary. The Pistons would also end up with their own TPE as a result of not getting any salary back for Grant.

Do I have this right?

Edit: Just to be clear, this is a hypothetical example, not a proposed trade.

as I understand it, you're essentially correct

Blazers would trade their pick for Grant (one trade). He'd fit into the Blazer TPE and because Detroit traded away 20M in salary they'd get a 20M TPE; which they then could use to absorb Little. The only thing I'm unsure of is my understanding is that each team in a trade has to send out something if a salary is involved. That could mean that the Pistons would have to send an asset to Portland but that could be a 2028 top-55 protected 2nd round pick

 

[Mediocre Man]

So the TPE to Charlotte for Hayward and 15

 

[blazerkor]

So the TPE to Charlotte for Hayward and 15

Hayward is about 9M too expensive to fit into the TPE.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Hayward is about 9M too expensive to fit into the TPE.

Can’t we take back more salary?

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

Can’t we take back more salary?

Nope. Has to be ~$21M or less

 

[blazerkor]

Can’t we take back more salary?

The thing about a TPE is that it cannot be combined with anything else from the team that has it and is using it. So when you send something with it that has to be considered a separate trade. So you can't get a player who costs more than it because that player's salary obviously can't be broken up across more than one trade. You can send picks with it because there is no rule that I know of against giving away picks. Someone earlier said they think that you can't give something away with no return but if that's in the CBA it's semantics because picks are sold all the time so the trade could be a pick for a dollar in return.

 

[Titan]

Too bad the free agent class is weaker this year. The TPE could be a great bargain chip to help open up room for another team to sign a free agent. Maybe some team will get desperate for cap space, so start of free agency seems the best time to use it, otherwise others said it best it’s the new RLEC.