Vince really inured, Nets hiding it (THEORY)

[kdub]

Ever since news of Vince's ankle has popped up in response to his less than stellar play, I've been slowly formulating a theory that Vince's injury is much more serious than the Nets and him are making it out to be. It's possible that it may even need surgery.

So why hasn't he had surgery, or why haven't the Nets disclosed the (true) extent of his ankle injury?

There's a couple possibilities:

1) Vince's injury isn't really that bad, and he is just having a super slump.

2) Vince wants to help his team despite his injury, and also overcome his "can't play through pain/injury" label

3) Thorn has told Vince that he is trying to trade him, and a seriously-injured (or one on the IL from surgery, no less) player is pretty much an untradeable player. Vince has also been told to not disclose the extent of his injury to more than an ankle tweak or sprain. When Nets officials (including Thorn and Kiki) are asked about it, they give the same answer.

#2 can still be true with #3.

The bit of proof I have is purely based on perspective, but here's what I have and my view on it.

From Dave D's Nets Blast blog:

http://blog.nj.com/netsblast/2008/02/if.html

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Weird exchange here today.

Al: Did you ever get a cortisone shot in the ankle?

VC: We talked about it. Not my thing. I just put the time in, we'll see what happens. Right now, it's doing well, hopefully I can stay away from it. I don't even take Advil.

A few minutes later, Nets confirmed he had a cortisone shot on or around Jan. 28th.

Must have something to do with VC's hatred of Big Pharma, we figure.</div>

So here we have some fibbing going on, either by Vince, the Nets, or probably both.

What I see here is that Vince has been told to keep his injury status/extent to a minimum when asked. To that end, when Al (Iannazone, I assume) asks him about the supposed cortisone shot, Vince immediately states that he's never taken one... trying to lead us to believe that his injury isn't serious enough for it--it's something that can be worked on by just playing and regular rehab.

When the Nets officials are asked however, they say, yes he did have one. Why not try to cover it up? It's already been revealed in the media that Carter probably took one, so they come clean with it. Vince supposedly doesn't check out the news too much and probably did not know, or was not updated by the FO.

So my theory is that Vince is not only injured, but badly injured, but is only playing through it either because he wants to show that he can play through pain, wants be traded, or the Nets front office wants to trade him without lowering his value through injury, or all of the above.

 

[MaxaMillion711]

just some background on vince and this "can't play through pain/injury" you talk about...

2002-2003 was his most injury plagued season. vince talked about his on "Centerstage" couple years back. He said it was a mistake to keep returning from the injury so soon. The reason, he KEPT going down and being helped off the court, was because he wanted to help his team SO BAD that rushed back several times when he was not ready.

So I never really thought Vince was that kind of player who cant play through injury. I think he naturally wants to help his team, inured or not. he has always said he will do whatever he can. if that means scoring 14 pts but dishing out 10 assists? or scoring 29 pts and grabbing 9 boards? whatever it takes.

 

[kdub]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaxaMillion711 @ Feb 11 2008, 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>just some background on vince and this "can't play through pain/injury" you talk about...

2002-2003 was his most injury plagued season. vince talked about his on "Centerstage" couple years back. He said it was a mistake to keep returning from the injury so soon. The reason, he KEPT going down and being helped off the court, was because he wanted to help his team SO BAD that rushed back several times when he was not ready.

So I never really thought Vince was that kind of player who cant play through injury. I think he naturally wants to help his team, inured or not. he has always said he will do whatever he can. if that means scoring 14 pts but dishing out 10 assists? or scoring 29 pts and grabbing 9 boards? whatever it takes.</div>

I don't doubt what you say is true, but the fact is that most NBA players/fans think he could be playing harder, and through pain.

 

[GMJ]

Interesting theory, except it's been my perception that he's been playing better as of late, which would denote improvement of his injury. I'm also not sure that he would prefer to hide his injury if he wanted to shake the label of not being able to play through pain.

 

[hustler]

this amuses me.
Continue.

 

[Dumpy]

recently I saw a throw-away quote by either Thorn or Kiki--I don't know where--and he admitted that Carter may need surgery on the ankle after the season. I'll never find it. It seems like they are really downplaying it. It could just be that they don't want other players to take advantage of his problem--rememer thier experience when KMart told Jordan that his back was killing him? I do; I was at the game; it was the last game I attended. Jordan scored 45 points, including 22 in a row at one point to tie his own league record for consecutive points.

edit: here it is

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?....xml&coll=1

 

[User01]

If his ankle is as bad as you say, but they won't admit it because they're trying to trade him, would he even pass a physical?

 

[Jizzy]

lies, sex, scandals... the story of the new jersey nets

 

[pegs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (User01 @ Feb 11 2008, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>If his ankle is as bad as you say, but they won't admit it because they're trying to trade him, would he even pass a physical?</div>
That's exactly what I was thinking. Debunk the "trade theory", because a trade for Vince wouldn't happen whether or not they're hiding the seriousness of his injury.


BTW, might as well throw in Al's link, too: Vince's Shots - Al Iannazzone - In the 'Zzone

 

[kdub]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dumpy @ Feb 11 2008, 08:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>recently I saw a throw-away quote by either Thorn or Kiki--I don't know where--and he admitted that Carter may need surgery on the ankle after the season. I'll never find it. It seems like they are really downplaying it. It could just be that they don't want other players to take advantage of his problem--rememer thier experience when KMart told Jordan that his back was killing him? I do; I was at the game; it was the last game I attended. Jordan scored 45 points, including 22 in a row at one point to tie his own league record for consecutive points.

edit: here it is

http://www.nj.com/sports/ledger/index.ssf?....xml&coll=1</div>

Good find Dumpy!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'>Boki Nachbar said the only reason Carter might not have been as aggressive this season is he's playing on a sprained right ankle, which may only now be healing completely.

"We've been around him and we know what the real story is," Nachbar said. "I think most of the problems has been with his ankle. He hasn't had that lift, that explosiveness that he had before. So I think once we as a team start playing better and once he starts getting more comfortable, I think you'll see the real Vince because he's still got a lot of basketball left in him."

Thorn said Carter's ankle has improved, but he wouldn't rule out the possibility that it could require surgery after the season.

"We don't anticipate that," he said, "but at some point in time it could be. ... Hopefully it will last through the end of the year and we'll take a look at it when he has some time off. It's been bothering him for a long time, but it's a lot better now."</div>

To those who said that an ankle supposedly as bad as his wouldn't pass a physical, it could be that it's bad but not so bad that he can't play on it for the rest of the season + playoffs. I mean, he's doing it now. And I believe a lot of teams would still take a 70% Carter... it may be enough to put some teams over the top or bring them into contention.

The fact that Thorn is "hoping" that "it will last through the end of thet year", though, makes me queazy. It's like running a horse until it's on its last legs.

At the very least, we know that Carter is injured, that's not up to question any more. Playing through injury for the team (or other reasons...) is pretty admirable, and hopefully he continues to get better and better.

 

[cpawfan]

The trade deadline is a little over a week away. For the sake of additionally lottery combinations, I'd like to see Vince sit down again after it passes.

 

[Petey]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Feb 12 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To those who said that an ankle supposedly as bad as his wouldn't pass a physical, it could be that it's bad but not so bad that he can't play on it for the rest of the season + playoffs. I mean, he's doing it now. And I believe a lot of teams would still take a 70% Carter... it may be enough to put some teams over the top or bring them into contention.

The fact that Thorn is "hoping" that "it will last through the end of thet year", though, makes me queazy. It's like running a horse until it's on its last legs.

At the very least, we know that Carter is injured, that's not up to question any more. Playing through injury for the team (or other reasons...) is pretty admirable, and hopefully he continues to get better and better.</div>

Would had have his pick of offers last year if that were true.

-Petey

 

[Kidd Karma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 12 2008, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Feb 12 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To those who said that an ankle supposedly as bad as his wouldn't pass a physical, it could be that it's bad but not so bad that he can't play on it for the rest of the season + playoffs. I mean, he's doing it now. And I believe a lot of teams would still take a 70% Carter... it may be enough to put some teams over the top or bring them into contention.

The fact that Thorn is "hoping" that "it will last through the end of thet year", though, makes me queazy. It's like running a horse until it's on its last legs.

At the very least, we know that Carter is injured, that's not up to question any more. Playing through injury for the team (or other reasons...) is pretty admirable, and hopefully he continues to get better and better.</div>

Would had have his pick of offers last year if that were true.

-Petey
</div>

True, but I think Ratner would not let VC go.

 

[kdub]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 12 2008, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Feb 12 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To those who said that an ankle supposedly as bad as his wouldn't pass a physical, it could be that it's bad but not so bad that he can't play on it for the rest of the season + playoffs. I mean, he's doing it now. And I believe a lot of teams would still take a 70% Carter... it may be enough to put some teams over the top or bring them into contention.

The fact that Thorn is "hoping" that "it will last through the end of thet year", though, makes me queazy. It's like running a horse until it's on its last legs.

At the very least, we know that Carter is injured, that's not up to question any more. Playing through injury for the team (or other reasons...) is pretty admirable, and hopefully he continues to get better and better.</div>

Would had have his pick of offers last year if that were true.

-Petey
</div>

I agree, but it was known that Vince and the Nets wanted to get something done to continue with Carter as a Net, and like Kidd Karma said, Ratner probably wanted Vince to stay no matter what.

Also, with the season halfway finished and a couple big-time trades already completed, teams are starting to get desperate to make a move, especially in the West.

 

[Kidd Karma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Feb 12 2008, 04:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Petey @ Feb 12 2008, 02:35 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kdub @ Feb 12 2008, 01:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>To those who said that an ankle supposedly as bad as his wouldn't pass a physical, it could be that it's bad but not so bad that he can't play on it for the rest of the season + playoffs. I mean, he's doing it now. And I believe a lot of teams would still take a 70% Carter... it may be enough to put some teams over the top or bring them into contention.

The fact that Thorn is "hoping" that "it will last through the end of thet year", though, makes me queazy. It's like running a horse until it's on its last legs.

At the very least, we know that Carter is injured, that's not up to question any more. Playing through injury for the team (or other reasons...) is pretty admirable, and hopefully he continues to get better and better.</div>

Would had have his pick of offers last year if that were true.

-Petey
</div>


I agree, but it was known that Vince and the Nets wanted to get something done to continue with Carter as a Net, and like Kidd Karma said, Ratner probably wanted Vince to stay no matter what.

Also, with the season halfway finished and a couple big-time trades already completed, teams are starting to get desperate to make a move, especially in the West.
</div>

So who needs a scoring 2 guard in the west. Would think Miller would need to move first, then VC. What are the chances that JON is so damaged that he may opt out of his contract after this season......he has a player option after this season.