Was Lincoln the great man his memorial would suggest?

[MarAzul]

He was the only President to take this Nation into Civil War. I have always ask Why? And where did he get the authority? I see nothing in the Constitution giving the President or Congress for that matter, the right to object to States leaving the Union.
Even if you can come up with plausible answers to these questions, was war the wise solution to the issues?

The War cost about Nine billion dollars total and about 1.1 million lives. At that time the US was the first Nation to spend over1 billion dollars in a year.

Was freeing the Slaves worth this cost? Assuming this was the root cause of the war, Geez the cost was high. There were a little over 3 million slaves at that time so Lincoln killed a person for every three slaves freed and spent $3000 for each slave freed. That is a preposterous price per slave
when the average going price in 1860 was $450 at the market.

What sort of advisors did Lincoln have? Why didn't anyone suggest just buying the slaves and setting them free??? We have done that with most of the commercial fishing fleets, without a fuss.

 

[THE HCP]

What the fuck Bro Montana....... You actually sit around and think of this type of shit? You obviously don't have a job or a woman in your life (moms doesn't count FAMS)........


Sent from HCPs Baller-Ass iPhone 5...FAMS!

 

[MarAzul]

What the fuck Bro Montana....... You actually sit around and think of this type of shit? You obviously don't have a job or a woman in your life (moms doesn't count FAMS)........


Sent from HCPs Baller-Ass iPhone 5...FAMS!

Yeah, it's a burden.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Wow.

 

[jlprk]

Had the Southern plantation owners sold all their slaves, there would have been no labor, making their remaining assets (land and equipment) worthless. With the Southern economy dead and the only assets being inflating greenbacks in the bank, the owners would have followed their former slaves north, leaving the South a barren wasteland for the Indians to reoccupy.

The owners would have refused Lincoln's offer to buy their slaves.

It's like, if the Soviet Union had offered to buy up the South Vietnamese economy, would the CIA have acquiesced and not killed President Kennedy to install their own war president? Not when an ideology's at stake.

 

[PapaG]

Probably the dumbest thread in the history of S2. Well done, OP!

 

[MarAzul]

Probably the dumbest thread in the history of S2. Well done, OP!

Wow, a record in less than a month

 

[jlprk]

Probably the dumbest thread in the history of S2. Well done, OP!

Wise up. Just like you ridicule every Blazer trade idea. You see imagination as something to be stomped on whenever it rears its ugly head.

Speculative history used to be confined to military academies, but video games have popularized thinking about alternative histories.

 

[PapaG]

Wise up. Just like you ridicule every Blazer trade idea. You see imagination as something to be stomped on whenever it rears its ugly head.

Speculative history used to be confined to military academies, but video games have popularized thinking about alternative histories.

OK, Marge Schott.

 

[jlprk]

Speaking of Marge, that reminds me I gotta get my beauty sleep now.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

Mary lincoln was a hot piece of ass, she could free my loyal servant from the confines of its zipper doored slave quarters anytime

 

[jlprk]

As I have said before, if only the North had let the South secede. International treaty pressure would have soon freed the slaves, and most would have already escaped to the North anyway. The U.S. would tody be as advanced as Europe--5-week guaranteed vacations, free health care, etc. The South would be as poor as Mexico.

We would have 2 Mexicos to our south. We wouldn't have the right-wing politics, militarism, sexual naysayers, etc.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

So you're saying Lincoln WAS the worst president

 

[Draco]

James Buchanan was the President who lead the country to civil war, Lincoln was the one who won the war.

The civil war wasn’t fought to free slaves, that just happened to be one of the outcomes.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

His signature top hat was worn to conceal a brain slug, hence the unreasonable subsidy appropriations that were stricken from the emancipation proclamation

The cure, garlic shampoo, merely helped fortify the vampire hunter myth, which was clearly ridiculous

 

[MarAzul]

James Buchanan was the President who lead the country to civil war, Lincoln was the one who won the war.

The civil war wasn’t fought to free slaves, that just happened to be one of the outcomes.

Buchanan had Constitutional authority for doing nothing. Lincoln had none for his actions including implementing a direct tax on incomes.

 

[MarAzul]

So you're saying Lincoln WAS the worst president

It is a close thing but yes, he set the low water mark.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

This board gets better and better.

 

[Draco]

Lincoln had none for his actions including implementing a direct tax on incomes.

Lincoln obviously did have constitutional authority for doing his actions since he did them. Did the supreme court rule he violated the constitution? No, so he didn't. Doesn't matter what you or I or any other common folk wants to think since we don't interpret the law. Only judges interpret the law.

 

[BlazerWookee]

Yes, he was.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

George W Bush: Great president or greatest president?

 

[3RA1N1AC]

That's a no brainer

 

[BlazerCaravan]

That's a no brainer

Great description of W.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

 

[MarAzul]

Lincoln obviously did have constitutional authority for doing his actions since he did them. Did the supreme court rule he violated the constitution? No, so he didn't. Doesn't matter what you or I or any other common folk wants to think since we don't interpret the law. Only judges interpret the law.

Some people do think that way. But consider the history 50 years later. The 16th amendment was passed to allow a direct tax on income in the US. Lincoln didn't bother with such trivia even though he took the oath of office to up hold and defend the Constitution Apparently he didn't think that promise was worth anything. He sort of set the standard for ignoring the main basis for our government, much like what we get routinely today.'

People should interpret the law, especially the Constitution, then they will be much better informed when it is time to vote. I recommend you consider it yourself.

 

[Denny Crane]

In time of war, the courts rule in favor of the government overreaching its constitutional authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States

Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944),[1] was a landmark United States Supreme Court case concerning the constitutionality of Executive Order 9066, which ordered Japanese Americans into internment camps during World War II regardless of citizenship.

In a 6-3 decision, the Court sided with the government,[2] ruling that the exclusion order was constitutional. Six of eight Roosevelt nominees sided with Roosevelt. The lone Republican nominee, Owen Roberts, dissented. The opinion, written by Supreme Court justice Hugo Black, held that the need to protect against espionage outweighed Fred Korematsu's individual rights, and the rights of Americans of Japanese descent.

 

[Denny Crane]

James Buchanan was the President who lead the country to civil war, Lincoln was the one who won the war.

The civil war wasn’t fought to free slaves, that just happened to be one of the outcomes.

This is how I know it.

"A house divided upon itself cannot stand" trumped freeing the slaves.

The slaves were freed by proclamation only after the North was badly losing the war. Realize Gettysburg is in Pennsylvania, which is a wee bit north of D.C.

 

[MarAzul]

In time of war, the courts rule in favor of the government overreaching its constitutional authority.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States

Korematsu v. United States, 323 U.S. 214 (1944),[1] was a landmark United States Supreme Court case concerning the constitutionality of Executive Order 9066, which ordered Japanese Americans into internment camps during World War II regardless of citizenship.

In a 6-3 decision, the Court sided with the government,[2] ruling that the exclusion order was constitutional. Six of eight Roosevelt nominees sided with Roosevelt. The lone Republican nominee, Owen Roberts, dissented. The opinion, written by Supreme Court justice Hugo Black, held that the need to protect against espionage outweighed Fred Korematsu's individual rights, and the rights of Americans of Japanese descent.

When I was a young fellow, I worked for one the Japanese interned about eight years after his internment was over. We were discussing it one night returning from delivering a load of his produce in Portland. He was telling me what it was like and how it totally pissed him off, when I told him what I thought. Sabo, (Sabo Akita) I don't think you would have survived living with the people that were told dayly the mission was to kill Japs! I still remember Bull Halsey answering a guestion about what he was going to do next at a fund raiser, " I am going to take my fleet to Tokyo and kill Japs!"

Bad stuff it was but I really think many would not have survived out in the open in that day.

 

[Denny Crane]

Contrasted with W, who right after 9/11 held a service at the National Cathedral with an assortment of religious "priests" (for lack of a better word), including a Muslim.

 

[TripTango]

"Abraham Lincoln fucking listened."

- Frederick Douglass, via Drunk History Vol. 5
(paraphrased)

[video=youtube;ipV2u-MxlFc]