OT Was Robert E. Lee really all that evil?

[riverman]

My statement is exact. The British closed the Sea to the Slave trade and began enforcing this rule with the British Navy. The US was the first to back the British in this effort at least on paper. We did not yet have a Navy. Read what I said, read your history before you argue with MarAzul.

1807 is not 1794....France did it first....then it snowballed...Napoleon reinstated it for 2 years only...1802-1804....still abolished 3 years again before Britain did it or the US...I'm not just talking about the Navy....I'm talking about the laws of the land

 

[MarAzul]

We know that France had outlawed Slavery in France, but they did nothing to curtail the slave trade.
When Jefferson was ambassador to France he took his slave Sally to France with him. In France, she was a free woman, and free not to return with Jefferson to the US. She did not exercise this freedom, she did return to the US with Jefferson.

 

[MarAzul]

I'm talking about the laws of the land

Wonderful! Vermont outlawed in 1777. Big fucking deal. No slaves in Vermont, no slaves in France.

 

[riverman]

Big fucking deal

to slaves it was a big fucking deal....why that angers you is perplexing

 

[riverman]

France had outlawed Slavery in France, but they did nothing to curtail the slave trade.

oxymoron....outlawing slavery has nothing to do with curtailing slavery? ...ok Marz......

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

as I posted before remove the uniform and sabers, have him standing as president of Washington college and people wont care about tearing it down

Let's have statues of him holding up a sign that says: "I was a colossal dick - try not to be like me."

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Sinobas]

He wasn't "evil". His wife inhierted slaves, so he owned some through his wife. He did speak ill of slavery but was no abolishionist. Thomas Jefferson, whose wealth was almost totally in slaves he owned, also spoke ill of it but wouldn't set them free till he died.

There seems to be this weird modern obsession with seeing everything through the lens of slavery.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

There seems to be this weird modern obsession with seeing everything through the lens of slavery.

First of all, what the fuck are you talking about?
Second, it's instructive to see the moral blindspots of people in the past. If we're not morons, maybe it'll inspire us to look for the blindspots that people in the future will see in us. Unless you deny that slavery WAS evil, which would make you a moral relativist, a view that has various incredibly stupid implications that I will postpone pointing out because nobody cares.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Hey Denny - I thought you weren't ON Twitter

 

[MarAzul]

I'm beginning to feel a little guilty about my immediate reaction when I see Rasta post.
It is similar to what happens when I see Al Sharpton puke some hate.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

I'm beginning to feel a little guilty about my immediate reaction when I see Rasta post.
It is similar to what happens when I see Al Sharpton puke some hate.

Ha! Al Sharpton was the voice of reason on CNN or MSNBC the other night.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Hey Denny - I thought you weren't ON Twitter

Rasta.....rapists should get the death penalty

Someone else.......maybe some but not in every case, like an 18 year old boy and a 17 year old girl

Rasta... THAT'S SOMETHING ONLY A RAPIST WOULD SAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MarAzul]

Ha! Al Sharpton was the voice of reason on CNN or MSNBC the other night.

The blow hard Rasta is from the same Island has 78% of my DNA. Shit, that fucks up any superiority credibility.

 

[MARIS61]

Secession = Treason.

 

[Sinobas]

First of all, what the fuck are you talking about?
Second, it's instructive to see the moral blindspots of people in the past. If we're not morons, maybe it'll inspire us to look for the blindspots that people in the future will see in us. Unless you deny that slavery WAS evil, which would make you a moral relativist, a view that has various incredibly stupid implications that I will postpone pointing out because nobody cares.

How can you not understand what I'm talking about? That's what this post is about. Likewise some say the US was an evil nation when it was founded because slavery was legal, and that the founding fathers that owned slaves should not be venerated. That's seeing everything through the lens of slavery. Just as some people are one issue voters. I get the feeling YOU are probably one of those dimwits.

 

[Sedatedfork]

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/the-myth-of-the-kindly-general-lee/529038/

Yeah Lee was not a great guy. He owned slaves and led a war to maintain that institution. If that's not enough for you, he was not a kind, benevolent slave owner either. Not only did he own slaves, he sought to separate families and beat them mercilessly.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Rastapopoulos]

 

[Denny Crane]

You, like a lot of Republicans, seem confused on this issue (I think El Presidente actually knows better, but just titled this thread for max troll).

No one (or, at least, very few--you can probably find someone to argue anything) is arguing that Lee was "evil" or "American Hitler." Removing his statues isn't as a direct condemnation of Lee himself, but as a condemnation of the Confederacy and the slave culture. It doesn't matter whether Lee, himself, was for or against slavery--what matters is that he took up arms against the US to protect the Confederacy and, by extension, their slave culture. By so doing, he's become a Confederate icon and when there's a push to remove monuments glorifying the Confederacy (removals being done by local mayors and governors), his statues are among those monuments.

You think I'm republican? I think you're fascist.

Now where does your lack of logic take you?

The well thinking people who are responsible for the preservation of history and our monuments disagree with you, the internet fascist.

 

[riverman]

Shit, that fucks up any superiority credibility.

#fakesuperioritybutnicetrytory!
I always knew you were a loyalist!
2. An American who, during the period of the American Revolution, favored the British side. Also called Loyalist.
3. often tory A supporter of traditional political and social institutions against the forces of democratization or reform; a political conservative.

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

You think I'm republican? I think you're fascist.

Now where does your lack of logic take you?

If you're not hooked to a feeding tube while you play on twitter all day, you might be a Republican.

 

[Minstrel]

You think I'm republican? I think you're fascist.

You're entitled to believe whatever you like about me. I think my view of you is better grounded in what you've posted than your view of me is grounded in what I've posted, but I'm biased in favor of myself.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're entitled to believe whatever you like about me. I think my view of you is better grounded in what you've posted than your view of me is grounded in what I've posted, but I'm biased in favor of myself.

You've proved in post after post that you have no "grounded" in anything based upon reality.

You are in a puny minority, thank goodness.

 

[Minstrel]

You've proved in post after post that you have no "grounded" in anything based upon reality.

You're the one who claims all sorts of ridiculous things that even you don't believe in order to try to "win" exchanges. And you've admitted before that you say things you don't believe to try to annoy liberals.

So I'm comfortable with my prior evaluation of our respective holds on reality.

 

[Denny Crane]

You're the one who claims all sorts of ridiculous things that even you don't believe in order to try to "win" exchanges. And you've admitted before that you say things you don't believe to try to annoy liberals.

So I'm comfortable with my prior evaluation of our respective holds on reality.

Don't quit your day job. You won't make it as a comedian.

Again, there's you, and there's the people who've trained and spent their lives dealing with history and monuments. They don't agree with you.

As I said, you are in a puny minority. Thank goodness.

You are increasing the resolve of the majority. Your fault.

 

[Minstrel]

Again, there's you, and there's the people who've trained and spent their lives dealing with history and monuments. They don't agree with you.

As I said, you are in a puny minority. Thank goodness.

You can keep saying that as the local mayors and governors continue to take down Confederate memorials.