Bogus! We are quietly doing Philly's lame "process"

[SharpesTriumph]

that's kind of similar to what I was saying

I especially pushed back against those saying, and there were several, that it would be a quick turn-around for Portland after trading Dame. What was nuts was that several posters were expecting the Blazers to get some massive haul in the Dame trade.

They Blazers did get a haul for Dame - zero regret on pulling that trigger.

If anything I wish the Milwaukee trading version of Cronin could have been the Blazers GM for all the other stupid moves this franchise has done starting with that Clippers trade.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

Totally understand OP frustrations, yeah I don't watch as many games.

I do wish the team would try harder to win. I like that Ayton is playing lately, but what about Brogdon/Ant/Grant? I understood the tanking when Wemby is out there, but that isn't the case with this draft. Just push the guys to win and let the pick fall wherever it does. Even with vets trying we'd lose a ton of games.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If any of Scoot/Sharpe/Ant was having a good year I think Blazers fan excitement would be much, much higher. It's not the losing that bothers much of us, I expected and was totally willing to watch a ton of losses this year. But I wanted to see some potential and feel like we were making steps in the right direction. Maybe it would only be step 8 of 100, but I was eager to see the start of that journey. I thought I saw some last year with Sharpe and prior seasons from Ant. Instead I question now more than ever if any young player on this roster can ever be an above average starter.

Even in the ZBo/Miles era they both showed more star potential than anybody on this roster.

 

[Strenuus]

If any of Scoot/Sharpe/Ant was having a good year I think Blazers fan excitement would be much, much higher. It's not the losing that bothers much of us, I expected and was totally willing to watch a ton of losses this year. But I wanted to see some potential and feel like we were making steps in the right direction. Maybe it would only be step 8 of 100, but I was eager to see the start of that journey. I thought I saw some last year with Sharpe and prior seasons from Ant. Instead I question now more than ever if any young player on this roster can ever be an above average starter.

Even in the ZBo/Miles era they both showed more star potential than anybody on this roster.

Agreed.

Although I think if sharpe can stay healthy he's our best shot.

Jury is still out on Scoot.

Trade ant ASAP. Those type of players are so boring.

 

[wizenheimer]

They Blazers did get a haul for Dame - zero regret on pulling that trigger..

nope....Brogdon, Timelord, the Warriors pick, and two picks in 2028 & 2029. That's not a haul

 

[Ed O]

It's really difficult to criticize a "process" that at least put them in a position to contend if they're healthy. When have we had that?

Further, as others have mentioned: Philly drafted like ass.

Fultz and Simmons totally busted. Okafor was out of the NBA before turning 26. Missing on three top-3 picks in three years is rough enough, but they had so many picks that just were ... nothing.



The law of averages would seem to dictate them getting SOME good players out of all those picks, but other than Bridges (whom they traded on draft night) Jerami Grant is just about it other than Embiid. It's almost like they didn't know what they were doing in player selection. haha

 

[Ed O]

nope....Brogdon, Timelord, the Warriors pick, and two picks in 2028 & 2029. That's not a haul

It's easier to say in hindsight, but I thought it at the time: Portland should have moved Brogdon and Williams for future assets rather than holding onto them in an attempt to be mediocre. I know the front office had convinced themselves that those guys could team with Ant, Ayton and Grant and the young guys to be decent, but... that's not the way to do a rebuild, IMO.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

nope....Brogdon, Timelord, the Warriors pick, and two picks in 2028 & 2029. That's not a haul

91% of fans here disagree with you

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/is-the-dame-trade-return-a-haul.382742/

 

[Phatguysrule]

Agreed.

Although I think if sharpe can stay healthy he's our best shot.

Jury is still out on Scoot.

Trade ant ASAP. Those type of players are so boring.

Yep. Ant needs to be dealt as soon as we get reasonable return.

 

[Tince]

Yep. Ant needs to be dealt as soon as we get reasonable return.

What's a reasonable return?

 

[Whyachi]

You mean by sucking so bad that we are a legit contender for the #1 pick every year? If so, we should probably throw in the 2024 top 5 as well...

that's where we're at. It's why season ticket holders shouldn't feel guilty letting go of their stubs.

Had to erase the entire backcourt to create Cronin's cellar dwellar.

Powell, Clippers, contender
McCollum, Pelicans, contender
Hart, Knicks, contender
Lillard, Bucks, contender

replaced with "you need to be patient, and lower your gosh darn expectations"

Blazers have the worst conference record in the NBA. The teams in the West are loading up. Let them all fight each other and try to win those stupid & boring playoffs.

Blazers will be stuffed full of lottery rookies and might get their chance, once those better teams get really old and can't ball anymore.

 

[Phatguysrule]

What's a reasonable return?

A starting level player that fits our needs.

 

[wizenheimer]

91% of fans here disagree with you

http://www.sportstwo.com/threads/is-the-dame-trade-return-a-haul.382742/

I don't care about that 'poll' that was taken 6 months ago, before the season unfolded, and filled with a lot of assumptions...

assumptions like Timelord would have a major impact....like Brogdon would be traded for assets...like the Warriors pick could be top-10....like Ayton would be a major upgrade over Nurkic when he's not....like "finally' trading away Dame would point a new direction with lots of upside, and finding ourselves looking at this team instead

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't care about that 'poll' that was taken 6 months ago, before the season unfolded, and filled with a lot of assumptions...

assumptions like Timelord would have a major impact....like Brogdon would be traded for assets...like the Warriors pick could be top-10....like Ayton would be a major upgrade over Nurkic when he's not....like "finally' trading away Dame would point a new direction with lots of upside, and finding ourselves looking at this team instead

This was always what trading Dame was going to lead to.

That package is every bit as good as I thought we'd possibly get for Dame.

There is a reason I didn't want to trade him.

 

[wizenheimer]

It's easier to say in hindsight, but I thought it at the time: Portland should have moved Brogdon and Williams for future assets rather than holding onto them in an attempt to be mediocre. I know the front office had convinced themselves that those guys could team with Ant, Ayton and Grant and the young guys to be decent, but... that's not the way to do a rebuild, IMO.

my thinking is that Neil Olshey had a big impact on the Blazer organization and it has been a lasting impact. Under Olshey, the Blazers became addicted to fence-straddling and avoiding risks; operating under the assumptions that solutions could be found in bargain bins and dumpsters and retreads.

and when Jody and the Vulcans took over they supercharged the bad habits because those habits fit well in an institutional priority of cash flow over significant investment

 

[wizenheimer]

This was always what trading Dame was going to lead to.

That package is every bit as good as I thought we'd possibly get for Dame.

There is a reason I didn't want to trade him.

I kind of thought it was at the time too. But with the perspective of seeing the result and the actual horizon of upside, I think the trade didn't result in a haul, just a sugar rush

 

[Phatguysrule]

I kind of thought it was at the time too. But with the perspective of seeing the result and the actual horizon of upside, I think the trade didn't result in a haul, just a sugar rush

I think call it whatever you want. There wasn't a better deal out there for Dame. We got max value from everything I've seen.

 

[Natebishop3]

I don't care about that 'poll' that was taken 6 months ago, before the season unfolded, and filled with a lot of assumptions...

assumptions like Timelord would have a major impact....like Brogdon would be traded for assets...like the Warriors pick could be top-10....like Ayton would be a major upgrade over Nurkic when he's not....like "finally' trading away Dame would point a new direction with lots of upside, and finding ourselves looking at this team instead

I'm reserving judgement until after this offseason. I think Timelord and Brogdon will be gone. I want to see what we do with the Warriors pick.

With all that said, I don't think we get better assets this summer for Dame. He hasn't played very well this year compared to last year. And now he's older. And his contract is still insane.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm reserving judgement until after this offseason. I think Timelord and Brogdon will be gone. I want to see what we do with the Warriors pick.

With all that said, I don't think we get better assets this summer for Dame. He hasn't played very well this year compared to last year. And now he's older. And his contract is still insane.

fair points...all I'm saying is that Portland did not get a "haul" or the godfather package some were imagining from the Dame trade

 

[Phatguysrule]

fair points...all I'm saying is that Portland did not get a "haul" or the godfather package some were imagining from the Dame trade

If people thought we were going to get more then they were delusional, IMO.

 

[Natebishop3]

fair points...all I'm saying is that Portland did not get a "haul" or the godfather package some were imagining from the Dame trade

Haul is another one of those words that is completely subjective.

It's like saying superstar or bust or contender.

Would the Miami package, at its absolute best, been a haul? I still don't think so (not saying you are either)

Jaquez - 12 ppg, 2.8 assists, 3.8 rebounds on 48.9% shooting and 31.4% from three.
Jovic - 7.1 ppg, 4.1 rebounds, 2 assists on 44.5% shooting and 40% from three.
Maybe three picks? 2026 pick, 2028 pick, 2030 pick.

I see a couple of role players and a few mediocre picks.

So I really don't think the Paul George/Kevin Durant type haul existed for Dame. Maybe if we had traded him a couple years earlier?

 

[Ed O]

This was always what trading Dame was going to lead to.

That package is every bit as good as I thought we'd possibly get for Dame.

There is a reason I didn't want to trade him.

That's fair.

If we had kept Dame, and we'd won twice as many games, we'd still be in the lottery. It's uncertain whether Dame can make a 20 game difference over the course of a season, but even if he could he wouldn't have been enough to get us into the lottery this year.

Would this season have been better or worse for you, knowing we finished right around .500 but have the worst pick in the lottery?

Do you think the franchise would be in better shape with Dame (and his impending tsunami of a contract) and a late lottery pick than with the pieces we added for him and a high lottery pick?

I'm not just asking you, although I'm interested, but I wonder how other people here would answer these questions.

Personally, I might have been more interested in any given game, but I would be more exasperated at the future of the franchise.

 

[Phatguysrule]

That's fair.

If we had kept Dame, and we'd won twice as many games, we'd still be in the lottery. It's uncertain whether Dame can make a 20 game difference over the course of a season, but even if he could he wouldn't have been enough to get us into the lottery this year.

Would this season have been better or worse for you, knowing we finished right around .500 but have the worst pick in the lottery?

Do you think the franchise would be in better shape with Dame (and his impending tsunami of a contract) and a late lottery pick than with the pieces we added for him and a high lottery pick?

I'm not just asking you, although I'm interested, but I wonder how other people here would answer these questions.

Personally, I might have been more interested in any given game, but I would be more exasperated at the future of the franchise.

We had assets to get Dame more help. We had a far better chance of competing for a title with Dame than without him.

We should have gotten Dame a better coach and we should have traded Ant for more help at a different position (look what Siakam was traded for). Still could have traded Nurk for Ayton if we wanted.

Some of those moves may have prevented him from requesting a trade.

We're going to tank just as hard after trading Dame as we'd have to tank once he retired. I'll play to win, please.

That said, I understand it was a tough situation and I'm not actually blaming Cronin.

Trading Dame has turned into almost exactly what I thought it would. I would have preferred we kept him is all.

 

[Ed O]

We had assets to get Dame more help. We had a far better chance of competing for a title with Dame than without him.

We should have gotten Dame a better coach and we should have traded Ant for more help at a different position (look what Siakam was traded for). Still could have traded Nurk for Ayton if we wanted.

Some of those moves may have prevented him from requesting a trade.

We're going to tank just as hard after trading Dame as we'd have to tank once he retired. I'll play to win, please.

That said, I understand it was a tough situation and I'm not actually blaming Cronin.

Trading Dame has turned into almost exactly what I thought it would. I would have preferred we kept him is all.

This season has sucked, no doubt. I just know that for me, having a .500 team with Dame would have been even worse this year.

I don't know that I agree that the team could have done more to build around Dame than they did... I suppose if we go back five or six years things definitely could have been different (although I'd prefer to not have made deals for guys like RoCo, Nance, et al, who cost us picks and didn't make us much better). Give me a young-prime Dame right now and I'd take him, but an early-30's Dame just doesn't hold much appeal to me as a Blazers fan and so, as painful as this year is, I am glad we ripped off the band-aid (even if we did dumb stuff like re-signing Grant and Thybulle).

 

[Phatguysrule]

This season has sucked, no doubt. I just know that for me, having a .500 team with Dame would have been even worse this year.

I don't know that I agree that the team could have done more to build around Dame than they did... I suppose if we go back five or six years things definitely could have been different (although I'd prefer to not have made deals for guys like RoCo, Nance, et al, who cost us picks and didn't make us much better). Give me a young-prime Dame right now and I'd take him, but an early-30's Dame just doesn't hold much appeal to me as a Blazers fan and so, as painful as this year is, I am glad we ripped off the band-aid (even if we did dumb stuff like re-signing Grant and Thybulle).

I understand the perspective, I just feel differently.

A .500 team with Dame can make the playoffs and maybe even make a run. Add another all star with some finds like Camara and Banton (and a healthy Sharpe) and you could be off and running...

The rebuild is always going to happen for every team. I'd personally much prefer trying to compete as long as possible before having to rebuild.

 

[Natebishop3]

We had assets to get Dame more help. We had a far better chance of competing for a title with Dame than without him.

We should have gotten Dame a better coach and we should have traded Ant for more help at a different position (look what Siakam was traded for). Still could have traded Nurk for Ayton if we wanted.

Some of those moves may have prevented him from requesting a trade.

We're going to tank just as hard after trading Dame as we'd have to tank once he retired. I'll play to win, please.

That said, I understand it was a tough situation and I'm not actually blaming Cronin.

Trading Dame has turned into almost exactly what I thought it would. I would have preferred we kept him is all.

To me, having Dame would have increased our odds of playing for a championship this season by like 1%. This team had no shot. None. And no future.

Keeping Dame was like being lost at sea, and with Dame we were treading water in the middle of a shipping lane. Eventually we're going to get exhausted and drown. Or we could use our remaining energy and swim to an island. We aren't going to be found on the island, but maybe we could build a raft so that we can paddle back out to the shipping lane and have a better chance of being found.

There's no guarantee, even with adding a player like Siakam, that we would would have been even marginally better than we were last year. He hasn't done that well with one of the three best players in the league. Trading him has at the very least ripped the bandaid off and started the rebuild process. Keeping him would have only delayed that process and in the meantime squandered an asset that we used to help the rebuild.

 

[Phatguysrule]

To me, having Dame would have increased our odds of playing for a championship this season by like 1%. This team had no shot. None. And no future.

Keeping Dame was like being lost at sea, and with Dame we were treading water in the middle of a shipping lane. Eventually we're going to get exhausted and drown. Or we could use our remaining energy and swim to an island. We aren't going to be found on the island, but maybe we could build a raft so that we can paddle back out to the shipping lane and have a better chance of being found.

There's no guarantee, even with adding a player like Siakam, that we would would have been even marginally better than we were last year. He hasn't done that well with one of the three best players in the league. Trading him has at the very least ripped the bandaid off and started the rebuild process. Keeping him would have only delayed that process and in the meantime squandered an asset that we used to help the rebuild.

There is no guarantee for anything. We had a better shot at winning a title by keeping Dame than we will have for the next decade.

And we would have almost CERTAINLY had far more entertaining games over the next few years. Well, depending on who we had coaching...

 

[Natebishop3]

We had a better shot at winning a title by keeping Dame than we will have for the next decade.

I don't agree with this. We had no shot at winning with Dame at this point. In an alternate reality, what steps could we have possibly taken to be legit contenders with Dame? Literally every contending team would have had to have catastrophic injuries for us to be have even a remote chance at a title. And again, I point to the struggles of the Milwaukee Bucks who have a much more complete team than we could have hoped to assemble, and they're struggling. They might still win it all, but the odds aren't looking so good.

Conversely, within 10 years we should know if Scoot and Shae are star players. If we are not contenders in the next 10 years, things have gone horribly wrong and it's back to the drawing board, but there's at least a path where our young players become stars and we compete for a championship. I see no path where we could have contended with Dame.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't agree with this. We had no shot at winning with Dame at this point. In an alternate reality, what steps could we have possibly taken to be legit contenders with Dame? Literally every contending team would have had to have catastrophic injuries for us to be have even a remote chance at a title. And again, I point to the struggles of the Milwaukee Bucks who have a much more complete team than we could have hoped to assemble, and they're struggling. They might still win it all, but the odds aren't looking so good.

Conversely, within 10 years we should know if Scoot and Shae are star players. If we are not contenders in the next 10 years, things have gone horribly wrong and it's back to the drawing board, but there's at least a path where our young players become stars and we compete for a championship. I see no path where we could have contended with Dame.

You're talking in absolutes. I don't think it's likely we'd have won a title with Dame. But we'd be a hell of a lot more competitive. Especially if we could have landed a Siakam type player. Especially with a backup like Scoot, with Sharpe coming on.

I'd rather compete than give up because we aren't favored to win the title.

Being a 6 seed with Dame is miles better than being historically bad without him. And we have been historically bad since we traded him.

And we never had any hope of getting a better return for Dame than we got.

No thanks. I'll take a team trying to win please.

 

[Natebishop3]

You're talking in absolutes. I don't think it's likely we'd have won a title with Dame. But we'd be a hell of a lot more competitive. Especially if we could have landed a Siakam type player. Especially with a backup like Scoot, with Sharpe coming on.

I'd rather compete than give up because we aren't favored to win the title.

Being a 6 seed with Dame is miles better than being historically bad without him. And we have been historically bad since we traded him.

And we never had any hope of getting a better return for Dame than we got.

No thanks. I'll take a team trying to win please.

I guess we just have different philosophies because I see a team that's trying to win.... in the long game. Being an also-ran is a waste of time in my opinion. In Dame's entire career, have we ever been a legit favorite to win a title? Nope.

I see wins in other ways.

We have a young core of players that we can build around. Simons/Scoot/Sharpe/Ayton

We have a stable of young players that have shown promise. Camara/Walker/Banton/Rupert/and even Murray.

We have some vets who we can either keep or trade for more assets. Grant/Brogdon/Thybulle/Timelord.

Pointless wins might be easier to digest en route to another first round exit, but how can it be fun to already know the outcome of the season before it even starts? I want to see this team win a championship. I want to feel like we're BUILDING towards something. I haven't felt that way in years. Not since LMA left. This team has been mediocre for a long time. I'd rather be a shit team with a chance to draft a superstar or a legit contender, but not in between.