We Have No Plan

[Pinwheel1]

If a team is going to obtain a 5th SG (or a 5th player at any position), they should have a deal already in place to properly trim the roster and improve the team. Not a bunch of "maybe" talk. It's just very irresponsible and gives further insight to the disfunctional management we have- IMHO.

You really think management should pass on the player they wanted in FA because they have too many other players at the same postion? And management is disfunctional? Was it not obvious for months that Rudy wanted out? Did you want Management to trade him before we had a replacement? Now that would have been stupid. In my mind going into FA they had one true SG. BROY. That is it. Bayless is a tweener and Williams has never played a minute. The plan was to get the best possible back up for Roy through free agency. That plan worked out pretty well.

Next up as you all say is the PG. But don't you think the plan all along was to at least try for Cp3 this summer? Their plan seems solid to me. Certainly not irresponsible.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

And how do you know what their plans were or are?

barfo

The team president was asked after we signed Matthews to an offer sheet what were the plans to move some of the other SG's and he stated we had none and that our top priority was looking for a GM. Now, some people (like Nikolokous) may argue that that statement denotes a detailed plan, but I disagree. It tells me exactly what it is- "we're over paying for a project player, hope to hire a GM and beyond that have no idea what we will do. We'll decide when we have a GM". I guess we have to agree to disagree on the meaning of what Miller said.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

You really think management should pass on the player they wanted in FA because they have too many other players at the same postion?

I see your point. And if Matthews was more of an established player, then I might even agree. But he's not. And he's a reserve player. And we gave him more than most starters get in the NBA. And there was no guarantee he'd even be the #2 SG on the team as it's a competitive position. And we had no plans beyond that.

I mean, and I'll say it again for those 'hard of reading and an ability to understand what they read', I felt we'd most likely hire a GM quickly and then clean up the mess. But that was no guarantee it would happen. We had no plan.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Nothing was taken out of context. You alluded to this thread, followed by a "told you so."

You're right. My apologies.

 

[tlongII]

Our plan looks pretty good to me. Even if they didn't intend it, we are in a pretty good spot right now. Complaining about what you perceive to be a lack of a plan seems kind of pointless to me.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Our plan looks pretty good to me. Even if they didn't intend it, we are in a pretty good spot right now. Complaining about what you perceive to be a lack of a plan seems kind of pointless to me.

Well, things are looking up right now, but they we're looking pretty down earlier. I think Vulcan is a group of hopeless vindictive boobs. Last weekend I spoke with an attorney who used to do some work for them and he describes them as nothing more than a vindictive battering ram with enough in-fighting to make the Afgahn war look like a love-in.

 

[ABM]

Well, things are looking up right now, but they we're looking pretty down earlier. I think Vulcan is a group of hopeless vindictive boobs. Last weekend I spoke with an attorney who used to do some work for them and he describes them as nothing more than a vindictive battering ram with enough in-fighting to make the Afgahn war look like a love-in.

The pendulum swings both ways, bud. As it concerns the Blazers, prior to Vulcan's hands-on involvement, Paul Allen was a carefree, reckless spendthrift. You remember......."The economic model is broken."

That said, I'd rather have the current situation as opposed to Paul ultimately being left with looking for other another buyer............who then may (or may not) want to move our team such as what happened to our friends up North.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

The pendulum swings both ways, bud. As it concerns the Blazers, prior to Vulcan's hands-on involvement, Paul Allen was a carefree, reckless spendthrift. You remember......."The economic model is broken."

That said, I'd rather have the current situation as opposed to Paul ultimately being left with looking for other another buyer............who then may (or may not) want to move our team such as what happened to our friends up North.

I long for the day Al Davis, II sells the team.

 

[ABM]

I long for the day Al Davis, II sells the team.

Be careful what you ask for. If Paul hadn't cared about this team, this city, there would be no Rose Garden....and perhaps no Portland Trail Blazers at this point.

 

[barfo]

I long for the day Al Davis, II sells the team.

If you like the idea of having a small market team with a poor owner so much, why not just root for the Hornets?

barfo

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I think Al Davis II has given the reins of the team fully over to Vulcan and they are doing their usual incompetent job.

 

[Nate Dogg]

Think of how many jobs would be lost if PA moved the team to Seattle. I think he knows that having multiple sellouts for the past 3 seasons, that hes making the $$.

 

[Ed O]

Well, things are looking up right now, but they we're looking pretty down earlier.

They weren't looking down from my perspective. Maybe you've got some block that makes it hard for you to see the positive position that this team was/is in?

Ed O.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Think of how many jobs would be lost if PA moved the team to Seattle. I think he knows that having multiple sellouts for the past 3 seasons, that hes making the $$.

And while your post is pure speculation, it's always a valid thought that when a sports team leaves, so do the jobs associated with it.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

They weren't looking down from my perspective. Maybe you've got some block that makes it hard for you to see the positive position that this team was/is in?

Ed O.

HA! Maybe.

But KP had a definitive plan for the team. And I think it was a good plan. He was fired for having the wrong agent and the team became, temporarily, plannless. So they overpaid for a promising reserve player and hoped to hire a GM and one that could develop a new plan. And they have and things are back on track. Good for us.

 

[Ed O]

HA! Maybe.

When people can admit (even a "maybe") that sort of thing, they get respect from me!

But KP had a definitive plan for the team. And I think it was a good plan. He was fired for having the wrong agent and the team became, temporarily, plannless. So they overpaid for a promising reserve player and hoped to hire a GM and one that could develop a new plan. And they have and things are back on track. Good for us.

What do you think KP's plan was? I always thought his plan was to consolidate, but he never did it. I thought his plan was to get a veteran borderline star (or better) for RLEC. I thought his plan was to make a splash in free agency last year, but he didn't do it.

And what do you see as a plan from Cho? Not that he doesn't have one, but what has changed since you started this thread to change your mind about him?

I'm sorry if you feel you have to repeat yourself. I just want these gaps filled in so I can understand your perspective...

Ed O.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

When people can admit (even a "maybe") that sort of thing, they get respect from me!



What do you think KP's plan was? I always thought his plan was to consolidate, but he never did it. I thought his plan was to get a veteran borderline star (or better) for RLEC. I thought his plan was to make a splash in free agency last year, but he didn't do it.

And what do you see as a plan from Cho? Not that he doesn't have one, but what has changed since you started this thread to change your mind about him?

I'm sorry if you feel you have to repeat yourself. I just want these gaps filled in so I can understand your perspective...

Ed O.

As I understand it from interviews... KP wanted to find a long term solution at PG and mostly for expiring contracts. He also wanted to try and get another PF with the loss of Howard. Both, IMHO, addressed out two main concerns and I was whole heartedly behind those thoughts.

As to Cho's "plan", top of the list is to move Rudy as he has requested a trade. He also states we're a couple of players away from true title contention. While he hasn't given more specifics at this time, it tells me he wants to move forward with some trades that he and the team management feel will better round out the team. I also have to think it involves a PG as we have talked to the Hornets about Paul. So he seems on the right track.

 

[Nikolokolus]

I think Al Davis II has given the reins of the team fully over to Vulcan and they are doing their usual incompetent job.

How so? The hire of a well regarded number 2 in Cho (whom many predicted was inline for his own GM gig sooner rather than later)? Was it Chad Buchanan and Mike Born being given the latitude to target a free agent and go after him (and get him)? Was it going hard after Chris Paul and reportedly offering the Hornets the most attractive package of any team trying to get him?

I get it that people are still pretty raw about KP being let go and the way it went down -- hell, I was pretty dubious about them having a plan to replace him -- but with the team finally looking to get something out of Rudy before he's completely devalued (Thanks KP) and Cho being pretty frank about the team needing another piece or two to make them a true contender, that sounds like a organization/owner that isn't satisfied with the status quo and wants to get better.

Look at it this way, if the bean counters were really in charge would the team have gone after Wesley Matthews and offered him as much money as they did? I think they overpaid, but I'm OK with that because it's not my money and it tells me that Allen is still willing to spend when he feels he is close to competing for a ring ... it also tells me that he still listens to his people on the basketball ops side of things.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

How so? The hire of a well regarded number 2 in Cho (whom many predicted was inline for his own GM gig sooner rather than later)? Was it Chad Buchanan and Mike Born being given the latitude to target a free agent and go after him (and get him)? Was it going hard after Chris Paul and reportedly offering the Hornets the most attractive package of any team trying to get him?

I get it that people are still pretty raw about KP being let go and the way it went down -- hell, I was pretty dubious about them having a plan to replace him -- but with the team finally looking to get something out of Rudy before he's completely devalued (Thanks KP) and Cho being pretty frank about the team needing another piece or two to make them a true contender, that sounds like a organization/owner that isn't satisfied with the status quo and wants to get better.

Look at it this way, if the bean counters were really in charge would the team have gone after Wesley Matthews and offered him as much money as they did? I think they overpaid, but I'm OK with that because it's not my money and it tells me that Allen is still willing to spend when he feels he is close to competing for a ring ... it also tells me that he still listens to his people on the basketball ops side of things.

Well, that's a good post and I agree that the hiring of Cho was a good move.

 

[Nikolokolus]

As I understand it from interviews... KP wanted to find a long term solution at PG and mostly for expiring contracts. He also wanted to try and get another PF with the loss of Howard. Both, IMHO, addressed out two main concerns and I was whole heartedly behind those thoughts.

As to Cho's "plan", top of the list is to move Rudy as he has requested a trade. He also states we're a couple of players away from true title contention. While he hasn't given more specifics at this time, it tells me he wants to move forward with some trades that he and the team management feel will better round out the team. I also have to think it involves a PG as we have talked to the Hornets about Paul. So he seems on the right track.

So KP's "plan" was to rob another team of a star or starting point guard using nothing but expirings? That sounds more like wishcasting than planning to me. As for Power forward, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Camby a pf-c? Between Aldridge, Oden and Camby just how many reserve minutes are going to be left over for a power forward, and isn't Dante at least competent in that backup role?

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

So KP's "plan" was to rob another team of a star or starting point guard using nothing but expirings? That sounds more like wishcasting than planning to me. As for Power forward, correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Camby a pf-c? Between Aldridge, Oden and Camby just how many reserve minutes are going to be left over for a power forward, and isn't Dante at least competent in that backup role?

Oh, I don't know. Throw in a 1st round pick and either Bayless/Rudy/Cunningham and it may have worked. Not for a CP3, but here are other talented PGs.

 

[Nate Dogg]

If so, then how in the world did we end up with 5 SG's??? Especially in that we took a second round pick from Utah and grossly overpaid him to do what the team already felt Williams can do.

The team really only has 4 if you count Rudy out now.
Jerryd Bayless is a SG
Rudy Fernandez is probably traded
Brandon Roy is a SG
Wesley Matthews is a SG
Elliot Willams is a SG
Andre Miller is a PG at his position, and feeds it more to his teammates.

I doubt Joel is going to play much this year probably half a season.

I think we get rid of Rudy and pick up another Center somewhere.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

The team really only has 4 if you count Rudy out now.
Jerryd Bayless is a SG
Rudy Fernandez is probably traded
Brandon Roy is a SG
Wesley Matthews is a SG
Elliot Willams is a SG
Andre Miller is a PG at his position, and feeds it more to his teammates.

I doubt Joel is going to play much this year probably half a season.

I think we get rid of Rudy and pick up another Center somewhere.

I'd really like to get one more big man for center or PF. I like this idea.

 

[oldmangrouch]

They weren't looking down from my perspective. Maybe you've got some block that makes it hard for you to see the positive position that this team was/is in?

Ed O.

Seriously?

I would say the outlook is much darker than it was 12 months ago.

 

[Idog1976]

Seriously?

I would say the outlook is much darker than it was 12 months ago.

Why? We're a better team now then we were then. Juwan Howard + Martell for Wesley Matthews? Picking up Babbit, Johnson and Elliot Williams? Unless you are referring to Miami I have no clue why you would say that looking at the Blazers roster.

Oh right you think Oden sucks. Well, take off your reverse rose colored glasses.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Why? We're a better team now then we were then. Juwan Howard + Martell for Wesley Matthews? Picking up Babbit, Johnson and Elliot Williams? Unless you are referring to Miami I have no clue why you would say that looking at the Blazers roster.

Oh right you think Oden sucks. Well, take off your reverse rose colored glasses.

I wouldn't say we're a better team. We have 3 rookies- none of whom have proven they can play well at this level and a project reserve SG. For that we lost Howard (veteran back-up PF/C) & Webster (our 2nd or 3rd best defender). Now, after a couple of anticipated trades we may be a better team.

 

[Idog1976]

I wouldn't say we're a better team. We have 3 rookies- none of whom have proven they can play well at this level and a project reserve SG. For that we lost Howard (veteran back-up PF/C) & Webster (our 2nd or 3rd best defender). Now, after a couple of anticipated trades we may be a better team.

Matthews = Martell only younger and a better shooter.

http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=webstma02&y1=2010&p2=matthwe02&y2=2010

You're trading an AGED veteran in Howard for Rookies with upside. I do it and I do it yesterday.

 

[oldmangrouch]

Why? We're a better team now then we were then. Juwan Howard + Martell for Wesley Matthews? Picking up Babbit, Johnson and Elliot Williams? Unless you are referring to Miami I have no clue why you would say that looking at the Blazers roster.

Oh right you think Oden sucks. Well, take off your reverse rose colored glasses.

In no particular order.

Miami super team.

Needless distraction and chaos in the front office.

Concerns about Nate not addressed.

LMA regresses (or at least stagnates).

Injury concerns over Oden now expanded to include Joel, Batum, and Roy.

The entire Rudy fiasco.

Roy morphing into Roybe. (even if the team made a great trade, you have to worry about how Roy would react)

Looming lock-out makes long-term planning almost impossible.

On the flip side of the coin, we (briefly) have Miller and Camby. Nice solid vets - but strictly supporting players. Mathews might wind up in that same category. Doesn't mean squat if the team's "stars" faceplant again.

 

[Idog1976]

In no particular order.

Miami super team.

Needless distraction and chaos in the front office.

Concerns about Nate not addressed.

LMA regresses (or at least stagnates).

Injury concerns over Oden now expanded to include Joel, Batum, and Roy.

The entire Rudy fiasco.

Roy morphing into Roybe. (even if the team made a great trade, you have to worry about how Roy would react)

Looming lock-out makes long-term planning almost impossible.

On the flip side of the coin, we (briefly) have Miller and Camby. Nice solid vets - but strictly supporting players. Mathews might wind up in that same category. Doesn't mean squat if the team's "stars" faceplant again.

I agree with the highlighted ones and possibly the Nate one although it's hard to tell with all the injuries last year. The rest are kind of meh unimportant stuff. The face planting is a bit strong considering we won 50 without Oden, Joel, Batum for half the year and Roy for the last 1/4 or so at full strength. Roy's health has ALWAYS been a concern to me since we drafted him. He had knee surgery in college, the Talus bone etc. etc. People have tunnel vision about Oden's health due to greater disappointment factor due to hype.

The Miami one definitely sucks and is a VERY valid concern.