We have too many bigs

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Rastapopoulos said:
Agreed that Vonleh looked marginally less of a bust when he was playing next to Nurkic, but Aminu is still the better player at just about everything except maybe baseline 15-footers.
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Besides being a worse mid range shooter, Aminu is not a better rebounder or ballhandler than Vonleh. ;)
 
Mediocre Man said:
Since it's a small ball game now, it shows how Olshey has failed in at least one way in building this roster.
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It's really not a small ball game now, that narrative is shit. Look at how many top, traditional, centers there are in the NBA. The only reason this narrative exists is because the two top teams lack a post presence.
 
Scalma said:
It's really not a small ball game now, that narrative is shit. Look at how many top, traditional, centers there are in the NBA. The only reason this narrative exists is because the two top teams lack a post presence.
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And even GSW, the Masters of "small ball" start two 7-footers and have a 7-foot tall back up center.

BNM
 
Scalma said:
I think a better way to describe today's NBA would be Swiss Army knife. Tweener wings are no longer looked at negatively but rather someone that can add versatility and value to a team.
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It's becoming a postionless game where teams design their offenses to take advantage of the skills of their best players, regardless of position. Kerr has perfected this in Golden State, and LeBron has always defied traditional position definitions.

Mark Jackson tried to force Steph Curry to be a traditional point guard responsible for running the teams' offense. Kerr wisely realized this was both wearing Curry down and also not maximizing his effectiveness as a catch and shoot offensive juggernaught. Curry was a good player under Jackson, but he did not become MVP level great until Kerr unleashed him from the traditional PG role.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
We replaced Festus Ezeli and Tim Quarterman with Caleb Swanigan and Zach Collins and you are arguing that that is a bad thing. Right...

And just how do you know Swanigan and Collins won't be quality big men? How about we see them at least play in the NBA before we make that call? Maybe even give them a season or two to develop.

I stand by my original point, it's better to have too many healthy big men in September than too few in April.

BNM
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Remember when we couldn't have too many big men so instead of letting Brian Grant walk and freeing up time for Jermaine O'Neal we traded for Shawn Kemp, Jermaine O'Neal never developed and the Blazers entered a tailspin?
 
The championship Bulls played 4 guys who were about 6'7" each.

Jordan, Pippen, Harper, and Rodman.

I wouldn't say tweener wings and position-less lineups are something new.

Position may matter when it comes down to who the player guards. Pippen played PG on offense and SF on defense. Jordan played in the post like a PF, but guarded SGs. Rodman hung out a lot at the 3pt line so he wouldn't clog the lane for Pippen/Jordan, though he knew how and when to crash the offensive boards (he was brilliant at it). Rodman guarded big centers sometimes while Longley guarded PFs (e.g. Karl Malone). Kukoc literally played all 5 positions. Harper listed as PG, though he never brought the ball up or initiated the offense. But he did guard PGs, though sometimes it was Pippen guarding them, or Jordan (e.g. in the case of Magic, or Gary Payton).



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Ugh, really wish we still had a Point Forward so Dame could play more as a catch/shoot scoring guard. Also, Nic made Rolo a viable offensive option - imagine what he could do with Nurk!
 
blue9 said:
Ugh, really wish we still had a Point Forward so Dame could play more as a catch/shoot scoring guard. Also, Nic made Rolo a viable offensive option - imagine what he could do with Nurk!
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I'm telling you guys... Point. Center. :ghoti:

As infuriating as he could be, a prime Nic Batum would be the missing piece for this group.
 
Denny Crane said:
It was a rolling start. We both turned the corner at a red light onto a stretch of 55MPH 4 lanes (2 in each direction) mostly deserted road. I floored it, like I usually do, and was surprised to see he was right there with me. He wasn't faster, but he wasn't slower either. I'm considering going Stage 2, since I found out it will still pass smog, even with the downpipe change.

From a standstill, the GTI is worthless. Step on the gas and it squeals the tires. In first and second.
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I thought you were ( rightfully) poking fun at boy racer types at first because that Hyundai doesn't come out till sometime in 2018. Glad you enjoy your car, I liked the way the Gti looked before it went 4 door only.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Remember when we couldn't have too many big men so instead of letting Brian Grant walk and freeing up time for Jermaine O'Neal we traded for Shawn Kemp, Jermaine O'Neal never developed and the Blazers entered a tailspin?
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Shawn Kemp and Jermaine O'Neal were never teammates.

And, ironically it was bringing back Rod Stickland that caused that team to go into a tailspin. Look it up. They were the No.1 seed in the West and hadn't lost more than two games in a row all season when they brought back Rod in early Mach. They promptly lost 5 in a row and 14 of their last 22 and fell from the No. 1 seed to the 7 seed and got swept by the Lakers in the first round.

Their downfall had nothing to do with having too many bigs. It was having too many PGs (Damon, Greg Anthony, and Strickland) and wings (Bonzie, Smitty, Pippen, Augmon and Schrempf), who all thought they deserved more minutes and a bigger role, that killed the team's chemistry.

If any thing, that team also had too few bigs. They lost Kemp in April to rehab, and went into that series against Shaq and the Lakers with just Sabas, Sheed and Dale Davis as their only rotation big men left on the roster.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Shawn Kemp and Jermaine O'Neal were never teammates.

And, ironically it was bringing back Rod Stickland that caused that team to go into a tailspin. Look it up. They were the No.1 seed in the West and hadn't lost more than two games in a row all season when they brought back Rod in early Mach. They promptly lost 5 in a row and 14 of their last 22 and fell from the No. 1 seed to the 7 seed and got swept by the Lakers in the first round.

Their downfall had nothing to do with having too many bigs. It was having too many PGs (Damon, Greg Anthony, and Strickland) and wings (Bonzie, Smitty, Pippen, Augmon and Schrempf), who all thought they deserved more minutes and a bigger role, that killed the team's chemistry.

If any thing, that team also had too few bigs. They lost Kemp in April to rehab, and went into that series against Shaq and the Lakers with just Sabas, Sheed and Dale Davis as their only rotation big men left on the roster.

BNM
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Don't let facts get in the way of a good story, man!!
 
Boob-No-More said:
Shawn Kemp and Jermaine O'Neal were never teammates.

And, ironically it was bringing back Rod Stickland that caused that team to go into a tailspin. Look it up. They were the No.1 seed in the West and hadn't lost more than two games in a row all season when they brought back Rod in early Mach. They promptly lost 5 in a row and 14 of their last 22 and fell from the No. 1 seed to the 7 seed and got swept by the Lakers in the first round.

Their downfall had nothing to do with having too many bigs. It was having too many PGs (Damon, Greg Anthony, and Strickland) and wings (Bonzie, Smitty, Pippen, Augmon and Schrempf), who all thought they deserved more minutes and a bigger role, that killed the team's chemistry.

If any thing, that team also had too few bigs. They lost Kemp in April to rehab, and went into that series against Shaq and the Lakers with just Sabas, Sheed and Dale Davis as their only rotation big men left on the roster.

BNM
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Fine! So my memory is shot to shit. Let's look up what really happened:
Oh yeah, that's right: the Grant-Kemp trade and the Jermaine-Dale Davis trade happened in the SAME OFFSEASON. So basically Trader Bob could have NOT done the Davis trade AND let Grant go. So my point stands and you're just quibbling.

As to whether or not it was Strickland's fault? I don't give a shit. We should've kept O'Neal and let Grant go, and the reason we didn't was because Trader Bob, like you, didn't give a shit about chemistry and just wanted to stack bodies like cordwood.
 
Re: Zach Collins or Harkless at the 4.
Background conditions: it's a PLAYOFF SERIES against THE WARRIORS in 2018.
I think Zach Collins is going to be good. But he's not going to be good this season. In a playoff series you can't afford players who don't fully know what they're doing. Also: Warriors = smallball. So yes, if we have the playoff series that we just had again next year, our extra depth won't mean jack shit. If, on the other hand, we turn some of those extra bigs (for preference: Leonard and/or Vonleh and/or Ed, but I'd throw in Swanigan and/or Collins if the return was good enough) for an ACTUALLY SOLIDLY GOOD NBA player (could be a big, because if we get rid of that many bigs we'll be short, but ideally it's a solid 2-way player because god knows we need better defense, and if it was Batum that would be fucking awesome) then we'd be actually better. We'd still get trampled by the Warriors, because THEY'RE PROBABLY THE BEST TEAM IN NBA HISTORY, but hey, maybe we'd take one game to overtime.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Fine! So my memory is shot to shit. Let's look up what really happened:
Oh yeah, that's right: the Grant-Kemp trade and the Jermaine-Dale Davis trade happened in the SAME OFFSEASON. So basically Trader Bob could have NOT done the Davis trade AND let Grant go. So my point stands and you're just quibbling.

As to whether or not it was Strickland's fault? I don't give a shit. We should've kept O'Neal and let Grant go, and the reason we didn't was because Trader Bob, like you, didn't give a shit about chemistry and just wanted to stack bodies like cordwood.
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Now you're just attacking me and making shit up. When have I ever sad I don't give a shit about chemistry? The Whitsitt apologists consider me a Whitsitt hater, and for good reason. My username for years, TraderBoob, was a dig at Whitsitt and the way he destroyed that 2000 team by overreacting and making too many trades and bringing in too many players that had a sense of entitlement.

That is not even close to our current roster situation. We have a bunch of young bigs that all have a chance to earn a role on this team - not a bunch of over the hill veterans with a sense of entitlement that think just because they had started elsewhere in the past, they deserved to start here as well.

Not even close to the same situation. If you can't see the fundamental differences between the two situations, there is no point in discussing this any further.

BNM
 
HCP said:
Should have never traded Nico.
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Not sure a guy who is shooting 40% from the floor is worth being upset he was traded. Granted, who they traded him for hasn't done shit, but it's not like Nicolas Batum is lighting up the league.
 
julius said:
Not sure a guy who is shooting 40% from the floor is worth being upset he was traded. Granted, who they traded him for hasn't done shit, but it's not like Nicolas Batum is lighting up the league.
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His game would help this team without him scoring. He can run the offense and let Dame play off the ball. And I can tell you he and Burek would work perfectly in a pick n roll situation. #FACTS
 
I still miss Batum. He'd be a perfect fit in our lineup. I don't care about his inconsistent play, at least he has brilliant moments where he takes over a game on both ends. Can't say that about Vonleh.
 
I say this as someone that's been on the Melo train from the beginning; I'd take Batum over him without question.
 
masieo said:
I thought you were ( rightfully) poking fun at boy racer types at first because that Hyundai doesn't come out till sometime in 2018. Glad you enjoy your car, I liked the way the Gti looked before it went 4 door only.
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It was the g80 5.0.
 
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HCP said:
His game would help this team without him scoring. He can run the offense and let Dame play off the ball. And I can tell you he and Burek would work perfectly in a pick n roll situation. #FACTS
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Burek really needs to step up this year. I can't remember the last time I saw Burek do anything. Not to mention playing basketball, I haven't even seen Burek breath, or exist. Step up your Game.
 
theprunetang said:
Burek really needs to step up this year. I can't remember the last time I saw Burek do anything. Not to mention playing basketball, I haven't even seen Burek breath, or exist. Step up your Game.
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HA! How about that? I have a co-worker and thats his last name. iPad must have liked his name better than Nurk!
 
Who knows if Batum would have stayed (he said he loves Portland - but that's just talk), and how much it would have cost to keep him. Could have walked out just like LMA did and the Blazers would have been left with nothing.

I really like Batum, always did - but I think it was about time for him to go - Batum says he is happy in Charlotte because he is their 1B ball handler - for this to happen here - CJ's game might have had to be curtailed and he might have not broken through. I know Evan Turner had a bad year - but I still believe that if he is healthy he can give you 80% of Batum's performance for 66% of the price.
 
sure, I'd be glad to have Batum; can we trade him straight up for Turner?
 
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