We should be ringing Denver immediately this summer!

[Charcoal Filtered]

I edited my post above. I meant to say how much will they be willing to spend on Pekovic. Not how much they will have. They obviously have plenty to spare, but I wonder what Khan's fantasy plan is.

Seeing how he could not get anyone to take his money last offseason and had to largely overspend on AK, I still think they match any offers for Pek. That would even be if they could trade for AI without sending out any other salary.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Why risk waiting when you can essentially sign that 3 yr deal now?

Denver ends up paying more, but does not have to maneuver to avoid the tax.

Signing that deal now nets you less money. So unless you are helping the team out (as I said) or worried about injury... 16 MIL is a LOT of dough even for millionaires.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I have seen many players give up one big year to secure 4 years of guaranteed money. And it makes sense.

If Iggy got a 4 yr 48M contract, I think he would jump on it. Why wait one year, where you can get hurt and the likelyhood of improving your game is low? Just sign the contract and you know you have 48M coming to you no matter what happens to your health or game. That 48M, alone, can be given to a financial planner who will ensure a comfortable life for the player and his extended family for the rest of their lives.

This summer will be interesting, but I don't see Iggy getting an offer of 48M for 4 yrs. They are trying to create a league where you can really only have 2 max players, and any huge contract after that will hurt. 12M/yr for Iggy will really limit a team.

But how about 4 yr at 30M. Do you do that or play one year for 16M and see if you can get a 20M+ contract the next year. I guess that is what agents are for . . .

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

But in your sceanrio, with accepting a reduced "multi-year" contract; still puts them close to luxury tax. It really doesn't help Denver in this regard. It would be only if Iggs opts out and they just let him go.

You just need to be under the tax by $1.

And to further clarify why I used Jefferson as an example, you showed plenty of reasons why he opted out according to the media. Still, San Antonio resigned him to a deal that was far above market value. It is my belief that the agent and team agreed upon a contract that would be a fallback if no other team offered as much. No other team did, they gave him the contract, the Spurs avoid the tax, then they trade him later to a better fit.

Conspiracy theory, yes. However, it makes too much sense.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Signing that deal now nets you less money. So unless you are helping the team out (as I said) or worried about injury... 16 MIL is a LOT of dough even for millionaires.

opts in
16M for one year then signs a three year deal for 27M = 43M

48M is greater than 43M.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

opts in
16M for one year then signs a three year deal for 27M = 43M

48M is greater than 43M.

Those are your made up numbers though. We don't know what he is going to get after his contract is up and I certainly don't think he gets 48 MIL if he opts out this year. He is not a 12 mil per year player next year (even though he will get paid 16 MIL if he comes back).

 

[magnifier661]

opts in
16M for one year then signs a three year deal for 27M = 43M

48M is greater than 43M.

Do you really think he can get 12 million per year for 4 years?

 

[Mediocre Man]

Iggy is only 29. It's not like he is looking for one last contract. Not sure there is any reason for him to opt out? He will be a FA the following year, and at 30, he should at worst easily get the MLE from someone for several years

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Do you really think he can get 12 million per year for 4 years?

McGee got it last offseason. JJ Reddick is supposedly asking for 40M.

 

[magnifier661]

Let's really break down AI's contract ranking in the league.

He ranks #21 in the entire NBA, #9 in the Western Conference, #3 in the Northwest and #3 of all the SFs.

That is way overpriced. The reality should be 9-10 million per. So let's say he gets a contract extension of 4 years 38 million offer now. That would put him in that average to his ability, etc. I would say offers will be at 4 years 35 million.

What if Iggs played next season out @ $16 mil, then signs a 4 year 25 million contract (well below the league average). That is 41 million for the next 5 years. Personally, I would take my chances and get an additional $6 million.

Even if Iggs got injured next season, even a season ending one, he would easily get a 4 year 25 million contract.

 

[magnifier661]

McGee got it last offseason. JJ Reddick is supposedly asking for 40M.

McGee is 24 and AI is 30+. Reddick is in his mid 20's too. They are hardly the same

 

[magnifier661]

Iggy is only 29. It's not like he is looking for one last contract. Not sure there is any reason for him to opt out? He will be a FA the following year, and at 30, he should at worst easily get the MLE from someone for several years

Right?!

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I think McGee is obtainable. If you look at their salary roster, that is the one that stands out. He is getting 10M/yr and doesn't even start. He has 3 years left, last year being 12M. He is a serious investment on that roster that limits Denver from going out and getting another key piece for that team.

I'm sure Denver loves the luxury of having McGee on the bench, and during the old CBA, his contract is easier to accept as an insurance type player who contributes off the bench. But if contracts are now a big piece of the equation when analyzing players, the McGee signing was the biggest mistake of the off season, IMO.

Are the Blazers willing to take this mistake off Denver's hands? With Lillards extension a couple of years away, maybe. But that gives the Blazers 3 10M+ players in Aldrdige, Batum and McGee . . . doesn't quite sound like the "big 3" you hear about on the super teams. But I do like the roster of Lillard, Matthews, Batum, LA, McGee with Hickson, Maynor, Leonard and Claver coming off the bench.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

So a broken down AI at one year older is worth, 4/25M but a healthy one a year younger is worth 4/38M?

In your scenario, he would also have to play an additional year and would only get 6M for it.

 

[magnifier661]

I think McGee is obtainable. If you look at their salary roster, that is the one that stands out. He is getting 10M/yr and doesn't even start. He has 3 years left, last year being 12M. He is a serious investment on that roster that limits Denver from going out and getting another key piece for that team.

I'm sure Denver loves the luxury of having McGee on the bench, and during the old CBA, his contract is easier to accept as an insurance type player who contributes off the bench. But if contracts are now a big piece of the equation when analyzing players, the McGee signing was the biggest mistake of the off season, IMO.

Are the Blazers willing to take this mistake off Denver's hands? With Lillards extension a couple of years away, maybe. But that gives the Blazers 3 10M+ players in Aldrdige, Batum and McGee . . . doesn't quite sound like the "big 3" you hear about on the super teams.

Yep McGee is only averaging 20-24 minutes a game. He was their mistake. But one team's trash can be another team's treasure.

As for the "super teams"; Chicago with Rose, Deng and Noah come to mind.

 

[magnifier661]

So a broken down AI at one year older is worth, 4/25M but a healthy one a year younger is worth 4/38M?

In your scenario, he would also have to play an additional year and would only get 6M for it.

Dude I am seriously "low balling" after next season. It's pretty obvious he could still get at least 7-8 million for the next 4 years. Wallace got it at age 30, averaging way less than AI.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

A guy with a 22 PER is trash?

Question:

Would it be easier to find a young big with upside that at worst gives you 20 minutes a night with two blocks or an over 30 athletic guard?

I know which one I would choose.

 

[magnifier661]

A guy with a 22 PER is trash?

Question:

Would it be easier to find a young big with upside that at worst gives you 20 minutes a night with two blocks or an over 30 athletic guard?

I know which one I would choose.

Who said he's trash? I've been advocating trading for him this entire thread. It's pretty obvious I want him bad. But if you think paying someone 10 million this season, 11 million next and 12 million the following a good deal for a 20-25 minute player; then we need to have a pow wow brother. Maybe you are Whitsett?!?!?!

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

You said one mans trash is another mans treasure. Denver probably does not think a 22 PER is trash.

I would like to explore other options at center since we have cap space. If we can do no better than JJ Hickson starting at 8M, I would much rather take McGee at 3yrs/33M. I do not think that is an option though.

 

[mook]

Are the Blazers willing to take this mistake off Denver's hands? With Lillards extension a couple of years away, maybe. But that gives the Blazers 3 10M+ players in Aldrdige, Batum and McGee . . . doesn't quite sound like the "big 3" you hear about on the super teams. But I do like the roster of Lillard, Matthews, Batum, LA, McGee with Hickson, Maynor, Leonard and Claver coming off the bench.

It's not a Superteam-type Big 3, but Portland has been pretty shrewd with its signings in recent years. Rather than binge on overvalued deals, it paid Batum and LMA on deals that are cheap compared to many similar players. It bought Matthews on a contract that declines as it ages, and again on a good deal. Portland also drafted Lillard, a ready-to-play PG who maximizes every minute of his rookie deal. You factor in how many minutes these guys play and how young they still are, and their contracts become an even greater value. This team has done a solid job of eating its veggies in terms of negotiating deals.

After several broccoli years, McGee is the cherry pie dessert contract you can afford to gamble on. Because at some point you have to. Value shopping and picking up castoffs like Hickson only gets you so far. You have to make a bold move that brings it all together (or could potentially go up in flames) when the opportunity presents itself. Like Hibbert last year, McGee still has the upside to be a contending team-caliber center, and you have to take that chance if you get it.

 

[magnifier661]

You said one mans trash is another mans treasure. Denver probably does not think a 22 PER is trash.

I would like to explore other options at center since we have cap space. If we can do no better than JJ Hickson starting at 8M, I would much rather take McGee at 3yrs/33M. I do not think that is an option though.

Actually they do Filter. That's why he only averages 20-25 minutes a game. It's really very similar to Hickson on our end. And when I use the reference of "trash" I am talking more about how they value him, not how I would value him.

Did you read the quote from Karl basically calling McGee out for being lazy and out of control?

 

[magnifier661]

It's not a Superteam-type Big 3, but Portland has been pretty shrewd with its signings in recent years. Rather than binge on overvalued deals, it paid Batum and LMA on deals that are cheap compared to many similar players. It bought Matthews on a contract that declines as it ages, and again on a good deal. Portland also drafted Lillard, a ready-to-play PG who maximizes every minute of his rookie deal. You factor in how many minutes these guys play and how young they still are, and their contracts become an even greater value. This team has done a solid job of eating its veggies in terms of negotiating deals.

After several broccoli years, McGee is the cherry pie dessert contract you can afford to gamble on. Because at some point you have to. Value shopping and picking up castoffs like Hickson only gets you so far. You have to make a bold move that brings it all together (or could potentially go up in flames) when the opportunity presents itself. Like Hibbert last year, McGee still has the upside to be a contending team-caliber center, and you have to take that chance if you get it.

See I completely agree with you on all counts. If not McGee; another gamble type player needs to be in our sites. We must find that potential difference maker that just didn't mesh well with their current team.

The reason why I keep bringing up Denver is:
1.) We have good relations with them and trade often

2.) Denver has some serious salary concerns, especially if they are a one and done playoff team.

3.) Denver already has a center that is just as much capable of being a factor for their team.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

If we can't get McGee I would take their 3rd string guy even. Mozgov. Obviously I wouldn't want to start him right off the bat but he did start some games in NY and for DEN originally when he was traded. He has some skills and would come dirt cheap (as in maybe even free - has QO that will not be picked up).

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

Did you read the quote from Karl basically calling McGee out for being lazy and out of control?

A coach does not call a player out in public unless he thinks it will do some good. If he thought he was beyond repair, I think Karl says nothing and lets the GM correct his mistake.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Do you know what they call a playoff team with McGee as their starting center playing heavy minutes? a treadmill team.

No thanks. His intangibles have never developed and his IQ will kill you in the playoffs.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

2.) Denver has some serious salary concerns, especially if they are a one and done playoff team.

3.) Denver already has a center that is just as much capable of being a factor for their team.

2. As I have stated, I do not think Denver's salary concerns are as big as you think.

3. Koufas has a PER nearly five less with far less upside.

 

[magnifier661]

2. As I have stated, I do not think Denver's salary concerns are as big as you think.

3. Koufas has a PER nearly five less with far less upside.

He's also 7 million less per year.

I guess we will see this summer about the salary. We will know soon enough if ai picks up his option.

 

[Charcoal Filtered]

He's also 7 million less per year.

I guess we will see this summer about the salary. We will know soon enough if ai picks up his option.

Yes, we will see. Should be an interesting offseason.

While I naturally cannot root for Denver, I love the moves their GM has made. I do not see them being on the wrong end of a trade.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Not a big fan of McGee's. In fact. I'm not a fan at all. Just because someone blocks a lot of shots, doesn't make them a good defender. Because of the blocks, McGee is probably the most overrated defender in the entire NBA. In truth he flat out sucks at defense - every bit as bad as Hickson, possibly worse.

You provided the quotes from Insider. So, I assume you read them:

he tries to block everything, even if he's 20 feet away or the ball is obviously on its way down. He also has a high center of gravity and struggles to keep opponents out of deep post position. As a result opposing centers blistered him in both stops, registering a 21.2 PER in Denver and a 21.8 mark in Washington, according to 82games.com.

Isn't that Hickson's supposed downside - that he barely holds his own against opposing starting centers? Hickson gets abused because he lacks size. McGee gets abused because he lacks smarts. Hickson is not going to have a sudden growth spurt, and McGee isn't about to grow a functional brain. They both are what the are - guys who barely hold their own against other starting centers. They produce on one end, but due to their limitations, give back just as much on the other end.

What we do know is Hickson fits in well and seems to like it here. Will McGee? How long before his incredible stupidity turns the coaches and other players against him? How many guys do you want that basically tread water? How much are you willing to pay them? In terms of net productivity, McGee is basically a taller, dumber, more expensive Hickson. If his net impact is a wash, do we really want to tie up $10 - $12 million a year for the next three years on this fool? I have to think there will be better values out there sometime in the next two years. McGee moves the needle at both ends a lot, but unfortunately in opposite directions so that the net impact is the needle remains pretty much straight up and down. If I'm spending $10 - $12 million per year, I want someone who moves the needle in the positive direction.

BNM

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Not a big fan of McGee's. In fact. I'm not a fan at all. Just because someone blocks a lot of shots, doesn't make them a good defender. Because of the blocks, McGee is probably the most overrated defender in the entire NBA. In truth he flat out sucks at defense - every bit as bad as Hickson, possibly worse.

You provided the quotes from Insider. So, I assume you read them:



Isn't that Hickson's supposed downside - that he barely holds his own against opposing starting centers? Hickson gets abused because he lacks size. McGee gets abused because he lacks smarts. Hickson is not going to have a sudden growth spurt, and McGee isn't about to grow a functional brain. They both are what the are - guys who barely hold their own against other starting centers. They produce on one end, but due to their limitations, give back just as much on the other end.

What we do know is Hickson fits in well and seems to like it here. Will McGee? How long before his incredible stupidity turns the coaches and other players against him? How many guys do you want that basically tread water? How much are you willing to pay them? In terms of net productivity, McGee is basically a taller, dumber, more expensive Hickson. If his net impact is a wash, do we really want to tie up $10 - $12 million a year for the next three years on this fool? I have to think there will be better values out there sometime in the next two years. McGee moves the need at both ends a lot, but unfortunately in opposite directions so that the net impact is the needle remains pretty much straight up and down. If I'm spending $10 - $12 million per year, I want someone who moves the needle in the positive direction.

BNM

But he can dunk! who cares about stats and especially advanced stats.

Sorry, had a Mags moment there.