Politics Wealth Tax

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ABM said:
I've always enjoyed do as I I say, not as I do. I've also enjoyed the frivolity and banter on this board. I also enjoy being a supporter of Trump. Some in here don't like that so much, but I don't mind. I also smile being dismissed by you. Put me on ignore.
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I've already stated the reason why I don't have you on ignore...it's for times like this when you are proven completely wrong.
 
ABM said:
He can't read my posts. It's the only reason I commented on it.
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That's the problem...What is the logic behind still feeling the need to reply to someone's posts even though you know they can't see them?
 
yankeesince59 said:
I've already stated the reason why I don't have you on ignore...it's for times like this when you are proven completely wrong.
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No, here's the real issue concerning you...and so many others in here. I'm a Trump supporter.
 
TorturedBlazerFan said:
I never made the case that I was struggling financially and needed that money on a monthly basis. I know this is maybe not the right post to reply to. I, however, did say that flat out it's just easier for us to not deal with it and pay in more. That's why we do it. Sure we could go figure that stuff out, and all that but we really don't need too at this point in our lives we have a lot of other things going on which we'd rather devote our time to. Also, you're making it sound like 13k is a king's ransom, sure it's a "decent" amount of money, but it's not exactly buying us a house in Cabo either.
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I can sell you a timeshare in Cabo :)
 
So, how about that wealth tax? Let’s, for conversation’s sake, make the assumption that the consensus is that the uber rich aren’t paying their fair share and that we want to increase spending on social programs. I know, for some folks that’s a shit sandwich, but just go with it. Is a tax in a rich person’s actual wealth, not their income, a good idea? A legal idea? Are there better ways to do it?
 
e_blazer said:
So, how about that wealth tax? Let’s, for conversation’s sake, make the assumption that the consensus is that the uber rich aren’t paying their fair share and that we want to increase spending on social programs. I know, for some folks that’s a shit sandwich, but just go with it. Is a tax in a rich person’s actual wealth, not their income, a good idea? A legal idea? Are there better ways to do it?
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I would assume the legislators have a much better understanding than any of us though and would know how to write such a tax bill and what would be legal.
 
Wealth tax has been a big time flop in Europe. 42000 millionaires left France and many of the initial countries have discontinued it.
 
CupWizier said:
How is it a cop out? We don't have any bill yet to form an opinion.
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Did you read The NY Times article I linked when I started this thread somewhere around the turn of the millennium? Many, probably most, legal experts think that a tax on a person’s wealth is a direct tax, which is unconstitutional. You can’t legislate around that. Sure, there are some lefty lawyers who say otherwise, but I’m thinking it’s a pretty fair bet that the five conservatives on the Supreme Court are going to disagree. Bernie and Warren are both relying on it to pay for all of their new social programs. I’m wondering why they’re not being challenged on it by the other candidates and the media. Seems kind of, you know, important.
 
e_blazer said:
Did you read The NY Times article I linked when I started this thread somewhere around the turn of the millennium? Many, probably most, legal experts think that a tax on a person’s wealth is a direct tax, which is unconstitutional. You can’t legislate around that. Sure, there are some lefty lawyers who say otherwise, but I’m thinking it’s a pretty fair bet that the five conservatives on the Supreme Court are going to disagree. Bernie and Warren are both relying on it to pay for all of their new social programs. I’m wondering why they’re not being challenged on it by the other candidates and the media. Seems kind of, you know, important.
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and like I said, nobody has even written a bill yet to pass judgement on.
 
CupWizier said:
and like I said, nobody has even written a bill yet to pass judgement on.
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And like I said, it’s not something you can construct legislation around and somehow make direct taxation of wealth constitutional.
 
e_blazer said:
And like I said, it’s not something you can construct legislation around and somehow make direct taxation of wealth constitutional.
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and I am sure there might be workarounds and it doesn't have to be a direct "wealth tax" as I am sure there are ways to write it that fit within the constitution. Did this administration not give a big tax cut to the wealthy? If it can be cut then it can also be raised can't it?
 
CupWizier said:
and I am sure there might be workarounds and it doesn't have to be a direct "wealth tax" as I am sure there are ways to write it that fit within the constitution. Did this administration not give a big tax cut to the wealthy? If it can be cut then it can also be raised can't it?
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The reason they are proposing this new form of taxation is that they want to be able to get to the massive wealth of the richest people in the country. Income tax and most other forms of taxes allow rich people to take advantage of loopholes and tax reduction strategies to reduce or eliminate their tax exposure. If the whole concept of wealth tax is unconstitutional, then you have to draw on a much broader pool of taxpayers to get at the same money. That’s why this point is so critically important.
 
e_blazer said:
The reason they are proposing this new form of taxation is that they want to be able to get to the massive wealth of the richest people in the country. Income tax and most other forms of taxes allow rich people to take advantage of loopholes and tax reduction strategies to reduce or eliminate their tax exposure. If the whole concept of wealth tax is unconstitutional, then you have to draw on a much broader pool of taxpayers to get at the same money. That’s why this point is so critically important.
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ok, I guess we will have to wait and see exactly how they target it and write it up if it gets to that point. We can speculate till we are blue in the face.
 
I've always questioned why the rich should be taxed (penalized) higher than anyone else. There's nothing keeping anyone of us (white, black, hispanic, etc.) from creating and amassing as much as we possibly can. This falls within the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness tag line. If there were roadblocks keeping said individuals from that result, I'd sure love to see them. They ain't there.
 
ABM said:
I've always questioned why the rich should be taxed (penalized) higher than anyone else. There's nothing keeping anyone of us (white, black, hispanic, etc.) from creating and amassing as much as we possibly can. This falls within the life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness tag line. If there were roadblocks keeping said individuals from that result, I'd sure love to see them. They ain't there.
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I don't even know where to start with this.

Question.

Do you believe someone making $10,000 should pay the same tax rate as someone making $1 million?
 
SlyPokerCat said:
I don't even know where to start with this.

Question.

Do you believe someone making $10,000 should pay the same tax rate as someone making $1 million?
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Absolutely. Across the board.
 
ABM said:
I've always questioned why the rich should be taxed (penalized) higher than anyone else.
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It's not a penalty. If you conceptualize it as a penalty, of course you won't understand the logic. It's a usage fee. Nobody can get rich without the rest of society, from workers to infrastructure. If you doubt this, run a thought experiment of how rich you think Bill Gates or <your favorite billionaire> could get on a deserted island. It's great that they worked hard (though many people work as hard or harder--wealth is not purely a function of hard work) and got rich--their reward is that they're rich. They need to pay into the society that allowed them to get rich. If they don't think society helped them, they're free to donate all their wealth, move to a deserted island and show us all how successful a man or woman on their own can be.
 
ABM said:
Absolutely. Across the board.
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I'm sorry buddy. That is a really ignorant comment to make. You want someone that is likely struggling to put a roof over their head to pay the same amount in taxes as someone that could afford multiple roofs over their head? Ridiculous.
 
SlyPokerCat said:
I'm sorry buddy. That is a really ignorant comment to make. You want someone that is likely struggling to put a roof over their head to pay the same amount in taxes as someone that could afford multiple roofs over their head? Ridiculous.
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Sorry, it's all relative, and everyone has the same opportunities...if they WANT them.
 
ABM said:
Sorry, it's all relative, and everyone has the same opportunities...if they WANT them.
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No they do not. Everyone does not have the same opportunities. Another ignorant comment to make.
 
ABM said:
Sorry, it's all relative, and everyone has the same opportunities...if they WANT them.
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Are you rich, out of curiosity? Are you a millionaire or billionaire?
 
Minstrel said:
Are you rich, out of curiosity? Are you a millionaire or billionaire?
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Actually, no. However, I've reinvented myself (career-wise) around five times over the decades. And, yes...I've been on unemployment in Bend, OR. That said, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, moved to Tennessee, got my real estate license, and am on track to make around $300k this year. So what?! The point is? I took a chance, bro.
 
ABM said:
Actually, no. However, I've reinvented myself (career-wise) around five times over the decades. And, yes...I've been on unemployment in Bend, OR. That said, I pulled myself up by my bootstraps, moved to Tennessee, got my real estate license, and am on track to make around $300k this year. So what?! The point is? I took a chance, bro.
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So why aren't you rich? Did you turn down your opportunities to be rich? Did you just not want to be rich?

You just told us that everyone has exactly the same opportunities to be rich.
 
Minstrel said:
So why aren't you rich? Did you turn down your opportunities to be rich? Did you just not want to be rich?

You just told us that everyone has exactly the same opportunities to be rich.
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OK, what I'm relating is, just because I'm not "there, doesn't mean that the guy/gal who's arrived at that status (whatever that may be) should be penalized. It's a journey, my friend. :)
 
ABM said:
OK, what I'm relating is, just because I'm not "there, doesn't mean that the guy/gal who's arrived at that status (whatever that may be) should be penalized. It's a journey, my friend. :)
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It's not being penalized. You give back to society. It is a privilege to pay taxes. That usually means you are doing well.

Should someone born with a permanent disability "pull themselves up by the bootstraps?" Do they have the same opportunities as everyone else?
 
ABM said:
OK, what I'm relating is, just because I'm not "there, doesn't mean that the guy/gal who's arrived at that status (whatever that may be) should be penalized. It's a journey, my friend. :)
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I agree. I also don't think they should be penalized.

I think that it's fair for them to pay back into a society that helped enrich them. Not only is it fair, it also helps seed a prosperous society that can create the kinds of opportunities that give birth to more successful people, "rich" or not.
 
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