Webster Get 4yr Extension

[MrJayremmie]

Very good signing, imo.

I think this season is the final season to see who we want to keep/get rid of for the future. Webster has a good chance there, but so does Batum and Outlaw.

can't wait to see how our SF situation plays out.

 

[Boob-No-More]

I do not know where anyone gets this idea, I really do not. Outlaw has never, in his entire career, had a PER for the year lower than Martell's best year. In his worst year (his 3rd), he had a PER of 12.9 compared to Webster's best year (his 3rd) where he got 12.0

Webster is a better man defender - Travis is a better help defender.

Got nothing against Webster - but the Trout under-appreciation on these boards is just mind boggling...

There's more to the game of basketball than PER. No matter how hard the mathematicians and statisticians try, you can't use a single number to express the entire worth of a player. PER is one of the better attempts, but it has it's flaws. It overrates some stats and underrates others.

Players with very limited minutes often have PERs much higher than players who contribute more, in absolute production, over significantly more minutes. So, a guy who plays a couple minutes of garbage time in a 20-point blowout against the other teams 3rd string scrubs may end up with a higher PER than a starter who averages 30 minutes a game, mostly against the other team's starting unit. This is more than just an issue of sample size, it's also an issue of the quality of the opposition.

During his three seasons in the league, Martell Webster has started 105 games. During his first five seasons in the league, Travis Outlaw started a total of 20 games. Last season was also the first time in five years in the league that Travis played significant minutes in the 4th quarter of close games. Prior to that, almost all of his contributions came against other teams' second units, while the majority of Martell's contributions have come against other teams' starters. Yes, the points all count the same no matter who's guarding you, but my point is it is generally harder to score against the other teams best players than against their second string. It's also generally hard to guard the other team's best players than their back-ups. Night in and night out, Martell is asked to go head to head against some of the best players in the league. It's a difficult assignment, and he's been asked to do it since he was 19 years old.

I'm not a Travis hater, and I'm not trying to minimize his contributions, but I do think Martell is a better all-around player than Travis. I think he has a more well rounded game with a more diverse skill set. They are both valuable and contribute in different ways, but in this league starters generally get paid more than bench players (not named Manu). So, I think $5m/year for Martell and $4m/year for Travis is completely fair and justifiable given the roles the two play.

BNM

 

[MrJayremmie]

I think Martell definitely has a better all-around game than Outlaw and a better complimentary skillset for our starters and lots of our players because of the way he can contribute without scoring, and his scoring touches usually come by shooting when he is open, which is nice for our team. Someone who doesn't require shots is nice.

Outlaw fills his role very well though. He does what he is asked... sure he has some off games but everyone does. The only thing i'm against with Outlaw is him starting. That is all. I think he is a good player for our team on and off the court.

 

[hasoos]

You know the whole small forward argument between the two players has been going on since both of them have been on the team. If just one of them, would step up and be consistent enough, it would end the argument. Right now, you end up with a "what have you done for me lately" scenario, where they go back and forth in the fans eyes.

Last year I thought Martell made a good step towards being consistent, and you could tell with his averages up and ability to contribute even when not scoring. I was looking forward to seeing what he brought to the table this year, especially with the way he played off Fernandez in the pre season.

I would like to see Travis work on his defense and rebounding. I don't care so much for passing with him, his job on the second unit is to shoot.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

There's more to the game of basketball than PER. No matter how hard the mathematicians and statisticians try, you can't use a single number to express the entire worth of a player. PER is one of the better attempts, but it has it's flaws. It overrates some stats and underrates others.

Players with very limited minutes often have PERs much higher than players who contribute more, in absolute production, over significantly more minutes. So, a guy who plays a couple minutes of garbage time in a 20-point blowout against the other teams 3rd string scrubs may end up with a higher PER than a starter who averages 30 minutes a game, mostly against the other team's starting unit. This is more than just an issue of sample size, it's also an issue of the quality of the opposition.

During his three seasons in the league, Martell Webster has started 105 games. During his first five seasons in the league, Travis Outlaw started a total of 20 games. Last season was also the first time in five years in the league that Travis played significant minutes in the 4th quarter of close games. Prior to that, almost all of his contributions came against other teams' second units, while the majority of Martell's contributions have come against other teams' starters. Yes, the points all count the same no matter who's guarding you, but my point is it is generally harder to score against the other teams best players than against their second string. It's also generally hard to guard the other team's best players than their back-ups. Night in and night out, Martell is asked to go head to head against some of the best players in the league. It's a difficult assignment, and he's been asked to do it since he was 19 years old.

I'm not a Travis hater, and I'm not trying to minimize his contributions, but I do think Martell is a better all-around player than Travis. I think he has a more well rounded game with a more diverse skill set. They are both valuable and contribute in different ways, but in this league starters generally get paid more than bench players (not named Manu). So, I think $5m/year for Martell and $4m/year for Travis is completely fair and justifiable given the roles the two play.

BNM

Interesting analysis, except you completely ignore one thing - their games. I agree that Webster probably
has the overall better game. However, the starter's roles tend to be scoring (which Outlaw can do) and
the reserve's roles tend to be defensive (which Webster can do). Webster can NOT create his own shot.
He has no "drive by the defender, pull up for the jumper, swish" game - Outlaw does. Thus, it really makes
more sense for Outlaw to be getting the "starter's money" and Webster to be getting the bench money.
It just happens that on this particular team we need role players to play along with our Big 3, so Webster
starts.

Bottom Line, they're both getting Bench $, and KP has done it again! Great value signings!

2 more thoughts,
1) I can't believe I'm saying this, but Batum may supplant them both as a starter. I love Batum's game!
(and the fact that SA didn't get him!)

2) I was impressed by Webster's ability to run the floor in Training Camp and the Preseason, as well as
his work ethic. Shooting the ball from a chair when you're not allowed to even walk shows dedication
to getting better - I like it!

 

[Ed O]

Webster is one of my favorite Blazers, in terms of his skill set and his potential, and I'm very happy with this deal.

At worst he's going to evolve into an effective gunner off the bench... and I think there's a pretty good chance that he's going to hang onto the starting small forward spot for a few years as he improves and matures physically.

Ed O.

 

[andalusian]

I think that Travis's game is of the win it or lose it for you - when he is on - he is unstoppable, when his shot does not fall... you waste a lot of touches on him. Martell seems to be able to win you a game once a year and will rarely lose you a game - but overall - I just do not buy the idea that he is a better all-around player than Travis. Travis can create his own shot, Travis is about as good a shooter and Travis will win you more games than Webster will. His biggest flaw is that he does not always understand when he hurts you - but he seems to be getting better at that.

Overall - I think this was a good investment by the Blazers - I just do not buy the entire Webster is further along than Travis was at this stage of his career. Webster is maybe a better complimentary player next to volume scorers - but he is not a better player nor was he a better player than Travis was at the same stage. The difference is that Nate is smart enough to understand how to use Webster and Travis to bring the best in them - where our previous coaches had no clue how to use Travis in a team dominated by Mr. Randolph as the leading scorer.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Interesting analysis, except you completely ignore one thing - their games. I agree that Webster probably
has the overall better game. However, the starter's roles tend to be scoring (which Outlaw can do) and
the reserve's roles tend to be defensive (which Webster can do). Webster can NOT create his own shot.
He has no "drive by the defender, pull up for the jumper, swish" game - Outlaw does. Thus, it really makes
more sense for Outlaw to be getting the "starter's money" and Webster to be getting the bench money.
It just happens that on this particular team we need role players to play along with our Big 3, so Webster
starts.

I didn't ignore it at all. I simply don't buy into it. Since when are all starters supposed to score and back-ups defend? That's complete nonsense. You can't have five high volume scorers in the starting line-up. There's only one ball and so many shots to go around. The history of the NBA is full of guys who brought instant offense off the bench (Vinnie Johnson, Ricky Pierce, Leandro Barbosa, Manu Ginobili, etc.) and guys who were starters due to their defense even though they had extremely limited offensive games (Dennis Rodman, Ben Wallace, Joel Przybilla, etc.) Both Travis and James Jones gave the Blazers offense off the bench last year. Travis and Rudy can play that role this year.

Webster starts because his more well rounded game is a better fit with the other starters. The one thing Travis brings is offense, but he needs a lot of shots to be effective. On the second unit, he can be the number 1 or number 2 option on offense - and he's proven to be very effective in that role. With the starters, he's at best the 3rd option on offense, and when Oden gets back, he'd be the 4th option. He's much less effective in that role. So, Webster starts and Outlaw comes off the bench. They both seem comfortable in those roles and it seems to be a better fit than vise versa.

BNM

 

[Boob-No-More]

You know the whole small forward argument between the two players has been going on since both of them have been on the team.

Not really. Martell's first year he played entirely SG. It wasn't until we drafted Brandon Roy that Webster moved to small forward. And last year, Martell was the starting small forward and Travis played almost all his minutes at the back-up 4. So, it really wasn't all that much of a debate until this year - and even now, when Martell is healthy, he'll be the starter and Travis will come off the bench. Travis himself has said he'd rather come off the bench than start. So, I don't see any controversy here.

Of course, if Batum continues to impress and show that he deserves minutes, there may be a minute crunch at SF when Martell comes back. I really didn't think that would be much of an issue this season. After his summer league performance, I figured Batum would be an end-of-the-bench guy who got more minutes in the D league than with the Blazers. He has proven otherwise.

Ditto at the PG spot. Based on the way Sergio played last season, I figured Bayless would easily beat him out for the back-up PG minutes. The opposite has proven true so far, but as Bayless improves and adapts to the NBA game, there will be a minutes crunch at that position, too.

BNM