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maxiep said:
Addressing Denny's point that no one would want to play in Indy, they would want to play there now that they're good.

As for how they stayed in the middle and got better, everything broke right for them. Hibbert developed, George was better than expected and they signed David West, who was viewed as overpaid at the time. The exception doesn't prove the rule.

I'm not saying it can't happen, I'm just saying it rarely does. In fact, it happened to us back in the 80s. However, do you really want to hang your hat on Clyde Drexler being available with the #14 pick in the draft?
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Sure everything broke right for them. And everything broke right for basically EVERY team that has had a good amount of success in the league. You need a good amount of luck. Everything broke right for OKC, they could have had Oden and Bayless. Teams need a considerable amount of luck to get to the top in our league. You see plenty of franchises who sit in the lottery forever because they don't have that luck.
 
It's all conjecture at this point. We haven't played a single game. We have no idea how the new guys will mesh with the old guys. We have no idea how much Lillard will progress this year. About the only sure things are Aldridge and Matthews. We pretty much know what we have in those two, and I don't expect much more or less. The rest is a complete unknown for me, and I'm excited to see how it plays out.
 
RR7 said:
I still don't see how a team as young as ours has essentially peaked and is already "stuck" in mediocrity. Everyone says you build by going young, and you build through the draft and smart trades. We have 4 lotto picks from the past 2 years on our roster. We traded some 2nd rounders for a solid starting C who is only 25. We have 3 starters on our team 25 and under. We have only one expected rotation player that is over 30. We've started off our rebuild, and are sitting on 4 lotto picks after a 2 year rebuild.
It's like someone hears that mediocrity is the worst thing, sees us picked to be in the middle, and without putting any thought to it, claims woe is us for being in the middle. If all of our starters were 30, 31, 32. Yeah. I hear you. When almost the entire team has room to grow, with nobody on a really bad contract, giving you lots of flexibility I just don't see it.

Again, what teams built the way suggested have gone from bottom 5 to top 5 over night? OKC went from bottom feeder to 8th seed, (oh no!! Purgatory!!), to a 4th seed, to 2, to 1. Who? Who has done it, to where that should be somehow what we pull off?
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This. Maxiep had no idea what he was talking about.
 
RR7 said:
I still don't see how a team as young as ours has essentially peaked and is already "stuck" in mediocrity. Everyone says you build by going young, and you build through the draft and smart trades. We have 4 lotto picks from the past 2 years on our roster. We traded some 2nd rounders for a solid starting C who is only 25. We have 3 starters on our team 25 and under. We have only one expected rotation player that is over 30. We've started off our rebuild, and are sitting on 4 lotto picks after a 2 year rebuild.
It's like someone hears that mediocrity is the worst thing, sees us picked to be in the middle, and without putting any thought to it, claims woe is us for being in the middle. If all of our starters were 30, 31, 32. Yeah. I hear you. When almost the entire team has room to grow, with nobody on a really bad contract, giving you lots of flexibility I just don't see it.

Again, what teams built the way suggested have gone from bottom 5 to top 5 over night? OKC went from bottom feeder to 8th seed, (oh no!! Purgatory!!), to a 4th seed, to 2, to 1. Who? Who has done it, to where that should be somehow what we pull off?
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While I agree with you, I'm not sure if OKC would be a good comparison because I don't think we have a Durant-level player on our team. Aldridge is an All-Star, no doubt, and quite possibly the best power forward in the game, but is he a superstar? Will Lillard be a superstar? We need that top-ten level talent if we hope to get past the first and second rounds.
 
Natebishop3 said:
While I agree with you, I'm not sure if OKC would be a good comparison because I don't think we have a Durant-level player on our team. Aldridge is an All-Star, no doubt, and quite possibly the best power forward in the game, but is he a superstar? Will Lillard be a superstar? We need that top-ten level talent if we hope to get past the first and second rounds.
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I am honestly not sure we have a Westbrook type on this team.
 
Mediocre Man said:
I am honestly not sure we have a Westbrook type on this team.
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Westbrook is arguably the second best point guard in the league. I think he would make some top-ten lists, so no, we probably don't have a Westbrook either.
 
KingSpeed said:
Cleveland acquired Mo Williams (All Star)
Orlando had Jameer Nelson (All Star)
NO had David West (All Star)
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Ah good points. So even after tanking, and a team striking gold with the best draft selection of any team in a couple years, those teams have to not only add one additional all-star, but get a 3rd great player to get a title.

That makes it sound like tanking to build a contender is so insanely difficult, so highly unlikely to succeed that it’s nearly a lost cause. The owners of a tanking team will have to be willing to lose millions in revenue while they intentionally suck.
 
Draco said:
Ah good points. So even after tanking, and a team striking gold with the best draft selection of any team in a couple years, those teams have to not only add one additional all-star, but get a 3rd great player to get a title.

That makes it sound like tanking to build a contender is so insanely difficult, so highly unlikely to succeed that it’s nearly a lost cause. The owners of a tanking team will have to be willing to lose millions in revenue while they intentionally suck.
Click to expand...

Cleveland made the finals
Orlando made the finals
Hornicans lost in the WCF

None of that says Pugatory
 
Natebishop3 said:
While I agree with you, I'm not sure if OKC would be a good comparison because I don't think we have a Durant-level player on our team. Aldridge is an All-Star, no doubt, and quite possibly the best power forward in the game, but is he a superstar? Will Lillard be a superstar? We need that top-ten level talent if we hope to get past the first and second rounds.
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I agree. Wasn't trying to compare rosters at all. Just trying to say that them, with 2 top 10 ish players on the team, didn't even make the jump from bottom feeder to top 5 team. That almost every team goes through a progression. And OKC always seems to be the team brought up as the ONLY way you build a team, or should. The "OKC Model". Tank, get a superstar or two, and championship. Which takes an equal amount of luck, IMO, as does moving from the middle to the top. Maybe even more.
 
The OKC model is the Blazers model, BTW.

One that would have been ridiculously successful had we either

A had a healthy oden
B had a healthy Roy
C drafted Durant
 
RR7 said:
I agree. Wasn't trying to compare rosters at all. Just trying to say that them, with 2 top 10 ish players on the team, didn't even make the jump from bottom feeder to top 5 team. That almost every team goes through a progression. And OKC always seems to be the team brought up as the ONLY way you build a team, or should. The "OKC Model". Tank, get a superstar or two, and championship. Which takes an equal amount of luck, IMO, as does moving from the middle to the top. Maybe even more.
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Well, I think that's Max's point. We don't have a superstar and we won't be getting one unless we tank. The likelihood of us signing a star is almost zero, and the chances of us trading for one is very very slim. Even if we traded Aldridge, it would most likely be for a young up-and-comer and not an established star. So his point about us being trapped in the middle is a valid concern, but I think it's too early to freak out. We really don't know how good Lillard will be, and I still have hope that Batum will stop being so inconsistent.
 
It's been a while since the Blazers made the playoffs . . . hoping this is the year we finally get back into the playoffs.
 
Wow. I guess I was silly for living in hell since April. Because ESPN said no way do the A's duplicate last year's miracle, they will be back in third place (out of four) or in last place. Silly me for actually watching the games.

Oh yeah, guess who won the West? This time with time to spare?
 
maxiep said:
If everything rolls the right way for T-Rob, he could never hope to be near the player Buck Williams was.

I think people forget what a player he was because he sublimated his game when he became a Blazer. When he was a Net, he was the be-all and end-all of that franchise.
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Nobody that I've seen has argued that T-Rob *IS* the next Buck. I said that I hoped he could "fill that role". HCP made a similar comparison. The fact that Buck had a "sublimated" role compared to his total potential in no way invalidates the possibility that a revitalized T-Rob might do some of the same things for us that a sublimated Buck did.
 
crandc said:
Wow. I guess I was silly for living in hell since April. Because ESPN said no way do the A's duplicate last year's miracle, they will be back in third place (out of four) or in last place. Silly me for actually watching the games.

Oh yeah, guess who won the West? This time with time to spare?
Click to expand...

Only because Brad Pitt is your GM.... duh!
 
crandc said:
Wow. I guess I was silly for living in hell since April. Because ESPN said no way do the A's duplicate last year's miracle, they will be back in third place (out of four) or in last place. Silly me for actually watching the games.

Oh yeah, guess who won the West? This time with time to spare?
Click to expand...

Not even the same conversation, but not shocking. *Deleted*
 
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Theres some people who think you can't work your way up and the only chance you have to succeed is by having things handed to you. Upward mobility is the american dream, all you terrorists who think they are "stuck in mediocrity" must love obama like all the other lazy communists
 
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The blazers are getting better, is the issue that it isn't fast enough? Or just whining for the sake of it?
 
I hate being the pessimist, and I like the optimism of people in here, but I stand by my statement. There's a big difference between having a young, up and coming trio and one where 2/3rds of them are probably as good as they're going to get. We'll win our fair share of games, and I'm sure we'll get solid players picking between 12-18 in the draft. And I'm sure that we'll make the playoffs most of the next few years. So, we'll have the pleasure of playing 86 or 87 games and getting creamed in the first round. That's our ceiling.

I wish to aim higher.
 
welcome to hyperbole Blazer fans

Natebishop3 said:
Westbrook is arguably the second best point guard in the league. I think he would make some top-ten lists, so no, we probably don't have a Westbrook either.
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Before he blew out his knee, RW was among the league leaders in many stats including minutes played. Being that his game has been based more on raw athleticism then refined skills (Chris Paul), I'm interested to see if his approach and productivity changes this season

STOMP
 
crandc said:
Wow. I guess I was silly for living in hell since April. Because ESPN said no way do the A's duplicate last year's miracle, they will be back in third place (out of four) or in last place. Silly me for actually watching the games.

Oh yeah, guess who won the West? This time with time to spare?
Click to expand...

OT, but it's five now. The Astros kept the M's out of last.
 
I stand (actually sit) corrected, Brian. Of course, five teams.

My point is (and what nasty thing did mm say that got deleted?) you can't judge a team before they've even played a game! Sports is and always has been full of suprises, like last year's "can't miss" Lakers who had their name engraved on the championship trophy this time last year. Just like their sister team the Sparks in the WNBA. And the big spending Angels and Rangers who would complete for the AL West.

I mean, before we doom and gloom can't we at least watch the team play?
 
crandc said:
I stand (actually sit) corrected, Brian. Of course, five teams.

My point is (and what nasty thing did mm say that got deleted?) you can't judge a team before they've even played a game! Sports is and always has been full of suprises, like last year's "can't miss" Lakers who had their name engraved on the championship trophy this time last year. Just like their sister team the Sparks in the WNBA. And the big spending Angels and Rangers who would complete for the AL West.

I mean, before we doom and gloom can't we at least watch the team play?
Click to expand...

I honestly said nothing directed at you. Honestly. I directed it at your post, which apparently for me is not allowed
 
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