Exclusive Welcome Zach Collins!

[Boob-No-More]

Is that Pee Wee Herman next to the bad guy off Terminator?

It's Scottish actor Alan Cumming:

BNM

 

[Natebishop3]

With the way people are talking about this dude, I think a lot of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Even if he is a good prospect, some of you are talking like he's going to come in on day one and be awesome. I just don't see it.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

With the way people are talking about this dude, I think a lot of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Even if he is a good prospect, some of you are talking like he's going to come in on day one and be awesome. I just don't see it.

The thing that worries me is that I don't see anything he excels at. He's good at most things but not really great at anything, which is why I think his ceiling is an Ibaka level big.

 

[Natebishop3]

The thing that worries me is that I don't see anything he excels at. He's good at most things but not really great at anything, which is why I think his ceiling is an Ibaka level big.

People like to make excuses about why he wasn't starting last year, but if he really was as good as people say he is, I don't see any way you bring him off the bench in college. That's absurd.

 

[Sinobas]

Its rates Collins as a "great prospect". It isn't high on most of the draft picks.

Isaac is only a "good prospect" and Markkanen is merely an "ok prospect".

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/lauri-markkanen/

Edit: I see I was beat to the punch.

I'm glad we didn't get Markkanen. Dude looks soft. Not much of an upgrade over Meyers Leonard. Collins can shoot, plus he has an inside game and good defense. Not sure why he went below Markkanen.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm glad we didn't get Markkanen. Dude looks soft. Not much of an upgrade over Meyers Leonard. Collins can shoot, plus he has an inside game and good defense. Not sure why he went below Markkanen.

Markkanen screams Channing Frye, which is fine for a late first rounder..... but not the 7th pick in the draft.

 

[handiman]

Ibaka was a key member of a team that was supposed to be in the championship hunt year after year. Yeah, that's an awful ceiling.

 

[TBpup]

The list of star players that didn't start their Freshman year is quite long. Not sure that means a whole lot. He was All-Tournament off the bench over a lot of starters....pretty good I'd say.

 

[MickZagger]

People like to make excuses about why he wasn't starting last year, but if he really was as good as people say he is, I don't see any way you bring him off the bench in college. That's absurd.

Zach Randolph and Russell Westbrook both didn't start as freshman.

You're also clueless about college basketball. If you have an established senior who ended up winning the Kareem award for best Center in the nation. Do you really start a freshman over him? Karnowski was one of the best Center in college basketball. Not an NBA prospect, but that's two different worlds.

Not all schools in the NCAA are factory schools for the NBA in the Calipari mold. The Zags lost two games all year, Collins was a top 10 pick. Absolutely shined in the Final Four. The most important games of the year he put up monster stats.

 

[SIeepwalker]

With the way people are talking about this dude, I think a lot of you are setting yourselves up for disappointment. Even if he is a good prospect, some of you are talking like he's going to come in on day one and be awesome. I just don't see it.

The thing that worries me is that I don't see anything he excels at. He's good at most things but not really great at anything, which is why I think his ceiling is an Ibaka level big.

People like to make excuses about why he wasn't starting last year, but if he really was as good as people say he is, I don't see any way you bring him off the bench in college. That's absurd.

Zach Collins 2018 MVP BOOK IT

 

[Natebishop3]

Zach Randolph and Russell Westbrook both didn't start as freshman.

You're also clueless about college basketball. If you have an established senior who ended up winning the Kareem award for best Center in the nation. Do you really start a freshman over him? Karnowski was one of the best Center in college basketball. Not an NBA prospect, but that's two different worlds.

Not all schools in the NCAA are factory schools for the NBA in the Calipari mold. The Zags lost two games all year, Collins was a top 10 pick. Absolutely shined in the Final Four. The most important games of the year he put up monster stats.

And your'e clueless about what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he's not a good prospect. I'm saying that if he was NBA ready, could possibly start this season, ready to contribute, he would have started for the Zags last year. Why didn't he start at power forward?

Also.... Karnowski: best center in college basketball...... didn't get drafted

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

And your'e clueless about what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he's not a good prospect. I'm saying that if he was NBA ready, could possibly start this season, ready to contribute, he would have started for the Zags last year. Why didn't he start at power forward?

Also.... Karnowski: best center in college basketball...... didn't get drafted

Karnowski was the best COLLEGE center though. 300 pound four year player, he was dominant.

 

[MickZagger]

And your'e clueless about what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he's not a good prospect. I'm saying that if he was NBA ready, could possibly start this season, ready to contribute, he would have started for the Zags last year. Why didn't he start at power forward?

Also.... Karnowski: best center in college basketball...... didn't get drafted

College success has nothing to do with being a draft prospect. Something I shouldn't have to explain to you.

I've never advocated for ever drafting Karnowski. I wasn't surprised he wasn't picked. He was still a really good college center though.

 

[Natebishop3]

College success has nothing to do with being a draft prospect. Something I shouldn't have to explain to you.

I've never advocated for ever drafting Karnowski. I wasn't surprised he wasn't picked. He was still a really good college center though.

But you completely missed the point of my original post. I'm not saying that Collins won't ever be good, I'm saying that I think people are setting themselves up for disappointment THIS SEASON. I'm not convinced he's necessarily going to come in and be a big part of our rotation right away. I guess we'll see how he does in SL, training camp, and preseason.

You just went into your usual "DEFEND ALL ZAGS" mode.

 

[riverman]

Karnowski will make more money and play more back in Europe...he knows the NBA is too quick for his game and why not play Euro ball back home? Makes perfect sense.

 

[Dougnsalem]

If you have an established senior who ended up winning the Kareem award for best Center in the nation. Do you really start a freshman over him? Karnowski was one of the best Center in college basketball. Not an NBA prospect, but that's two different worlds.

Also.... Karnowski: best center in college basketball...... didn't get drafted

Karnowski was the best COLLEGE center though. 300 pound four year player, he was dominant.

College success has nothing to do with being a draft prospect. Something I shouldn't have to explain to you.

I've never advocated for ever drafting Karnowski. I wasn't surprised he wasn't picked. He was still a really good college center though.

Serious question here....

I really only have followed the Beaves and Ducks games. Haven't really watched a ton of college ball. Why wouldn't his playing transfer over into the NBA? If he was such a dominate player, why didn't someone take a chance on him? I read about his back surgery, and understand he is slower than most. Still, I just don't get why he wasn't drafted. I see the Hornets picked him up for summer league, which is cool. Anyways, was just wondering....

 

[riverman]

Serious question here....

I really only have followed the Beaves and Ducks games. Haven't really watched a ton of college ball. Why wouldn't his playing transfer over into the NBA? If he was such a dominate player, why didn't someone take a chance on him? I read about his back surgery, and understand he is slower than most. Still, I just don't get why he wasn't drafted. I see the Hornets picked him up for summer league, which is cool. Anyways, was just wondering....

I watched him....way too slow and overweight but surprisingly skilled..good touch and decent passer. I don't see him playing in the NBA for those reasons...his back gave him a setback for sure

 

[Trackjack]

And your'e clueless about what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he's not a good prospect. I'm saying that if he was NBA ready, could possibly start this season, ready to contribute, he would have started for the Zags last year. Why didn't he start at power forward?

Also.... Karnowski: best center in college basketball...... didn't get drafted

I heard some people thought he should of starter. But coach Few is a coach dont start freshman. It was also said Few was winning with the rotation he had so he want interrupted it.

 

[Natebishop3]

Serious question here....

I really only have followed the Beaves and Ducks games. Haven't really watched a ton of college ball. Why wouldn't his playing transfer over into the NBA? If he was such a dominate player, why didn't someone take a chance on him? I read about his back surgery, and understand he is slower than most. Still, I just don't get why he wasn't drafted. I see the Hornets picked him up for summer league, which is cool. Anyways, was just wondering....

Being 7' and 300 lbs is a big advantage in college. It's not a big advantage in the NBA. The players in pro ball are bigger and stronger because they're full grown men. Not 19 or 20 year old boys.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Serious question here....

I really only have followed the Beaves and Ducks games. Haven't really watched a ton of college ball. Why wouldn't his playing transfer over into the NBA? If he was such a dominate player, why didn't someone take a chance on him? I read about his back surgery, and understand he is slower than most. Still, I just don't get why he wasn't drafted. I see the Hornets picked him up for summer league, which is cool. Anyways, was just wondering....

Karnowski was literally a man playing against boys. He was a 23-year old 5th year senior playing against a bunch of 18 and 19-year old one-and-done freshmen. In the NBA, he would be playing against other grown men, where his slowness and lack of athleticism would be exposed and exploited.

Basically the same reason Cody Webster did not have a hall of fame baseball career. Physically imposing enough to be the greatest 12-year old player on the planet, but a has been by 18 when he was playing against other players his own size.

BNM

 

[Dougnsalem]

Being 7' and 300 lbs is a big advantage in college. It's not a big advantage in the NBA. The players in pro ball are bigger and stronger because they're full grown men. Not 19 or 20 year old boys.

Karnowski was literally a man playing against boys. He was a 23-year old 5th year senior playing against a bunch of 18 and 19-year old one-and-done freshmen. In the NBA, he would be playing against other grown men, where his slowness and lack of athleticism would be exposed and exploited.

Basically the same reason Cody Webster did not have a hall of fame baseball career. Physically imposing enough to be the greatest 12-year old player on the planet, but a has been by 18 when he was playing against other players his own size.

BNM

Thanks guys. That makes total sense. Shoulda been able to figure that one out myself.... Lol

 

[Natebishop3]

Thanks guys. That makes total sense. Shoulda been able to figure that one out myself.... Lol

It's kinda like college football. You'll see a guy absolutely dominate in college, but his advantages are severely diminished when he gets to the NFL.

 

[MickZagger]

Serious question here....

I really only have followed the Beaves and Ducks games. Haven't really watched a ton of college ball. Why wouldn't his playing transfer over into the NBA? If he was such a dominate player, why didn't someone take a chance on him? I read about his back surgery, and understand he is slower than most. Still, I just don't get why he wasn't drafted. I see the Hornets picked him up for summer league, which is cool. Anyways, was just wondering....

He's slow and prodding, which 15 years ago he might be able to get away with in the NBA. He's not a great rebounder or shot blocker. But he ate up tons of space with his size, could pass better than any Center I saw at the college level and his post moves were pretty damn good, but against guys quite a bit smaller than him.

Karnowski has never been in great shape. You could tell by the end of the tourney all the basketball had worn him down. He was missing bunnies and stuff he usually always made. He will be a beast in Europe. If he can ever transform his body, he might be an NBA talent. As of now, I don't see it.

 

[dviss1]

This block at the 1:34 mark:



So dirty

For those who don't think his shot blocking will transfer, that SAVAGE ASS block was on the #1 draft pick Markelle Fultz.

 

[Natebishop3]

For those who don't think his shot blocking will transfer, that SAVAGE ASS block was on the #1 draft pick Markelle Fultz.

I think it's more likely that it will take him a year or two to adjust to how the NBA is called. I remember Joel Przybilla was a foul magnet early on in his career as well.

 

[BBert]

Markkanen screams Channing Frye, which is fine for a late first rounder..... but not the 7th pick in the draft.

Wasn't Channing Frye the 7th pick in the draft?

(Just going off my faulty memory)

 

[andalusian]

I think he was 8 -frye

 

[mook]

And your'e clueless about what I'm saying.

I'm not saying he's not a good prospect. I'm saying that if he was NBA ready, could possibly start this season, ready to contribute, he would have started for the Zags last year. Why didn't he start at power forward?

The only person who gets to decide who starts for the Zags is the Zags coach. One guy with his own biases and agenda. Did the Zags coach made a bad decision from the team's perspective by bringing the freshman off the bench? I think it's a pretty hard argument to make, given they made the NCAA Finals.

It was definitely a bad decision from the perspective of Collins' career, though. He almost certainly doesn't fall to us if he were a starter. But the coach made his decision based on projected team success. I don't hold it against Collins for the decisions his coach made any more than I hold it against Manu Ginobili coming off the bench for a Spurs title.

I think the "He wasn't even good enough to start as a freshman in college" argument only works in this instance if people were arguing Collins is a transformational player along the lines of LeBron or Durant. I'm a big fan of his, and I really see him as having Rasheed Wallace/Chris Bosh/LaMarcus Aldridge type of upper limit.

The key indicator in answering if he's NBA ready is to look at how he produced when he was in the game, especially in the tournament. It's pretty promising by that yardstick. I don't think he's a guaranteed starter, but frankly the competition ahead of him is pretty thin. Beating out Vonleh isn't going to be that tough.

 

[Sinobas]

I think this "small ball" stuff is a fad rather than an "evolution of the game". I see this all the time in sports, where everyone thinks they need to copy or draft players to defeat whoever is the best at the time. When Shaq was dominant, teams were drafting big bodies just to guard him in the post. And tell me how the Warriors would have defended Shaq?

It's not like small ball is new. The Warriors were doing it back in the 80s with Don Nelson.

I think the pendulum will swing back the other way if this league gets a collection of skilled big men who can actually score in the post, rather than the swath of unskilled athletic guys that seem to be coming in lately. It's like an NFL defense building itself solely to stop the pass, then realize a team can run the ball down their throat.

 

[Blazers Roy]

I think this "small ball" stuff is a fad rather than an "evolution of the game". I see this all the time in sports, where everyone thinks they need to copy or draft players to defeat whoever is the best at the time. When Shaq was dominant, teams were drafting big bodies just to guard him in the post. And tell me how the Warriors would have defended Shaq?

It's not like small ball is new. The Warriors were doing it back in the 80s with Don Nelson.

I think the pendulum will swing back the other way if this league gets a collection of skilled big men who can actually score in the post, rather than the swath of unskilled athletic guys that seem to be coming in lately. It's like an NFL defense building itself solely to stop the pass, then realize a team can run the ball down their throat.

You are forgetting one small thing: Adam Silver wants the league to be about a million 3-point shots every game. He doesn't REALLY like basketball so he finds defense and post play boring.

The league itself is shaping the gameplay and not the other way around. The league is allowing endless moving screens for shooters, whistles for every touch beyond the arc and nothing in the paint. God forbid someone tries to touch James Harden or Curry on the perimeter! defense is not allowed.