Well, what Center do you want?

[magnifier661]

I was looking at Meyers' stats yesterday. What struck me (going off my failing memory) is that he's playing half the minutes per game as last year, and in fewer games. In those games, his shooting percentages are a bit lower, which I'd attribute to inconsistent minutes and small sample size. But on a per minute basis, virually all his other stats are improved -- with the exception of blocked shots. It's clear that the coaching staff has told him to flat out don't go for blocks, and to keep his verticality ala Freeland and Lopez. I think they are deconstrucing his game so they can build it back under their guidance. Hence, he's looking pretty tentative most of the time.

He's a project. Let the coaches do their job. We'll see if he was worth the minimal investment in 2 or 3 years. I figure it's not worth bunching my panties over, and in fact, it might work out pretty well. For example: we resign him on a cheap contract because he's 'not there' yet, then he finally develops. Like Lopez.

I have come to grip that Leonard just won't be anything but a limited role player. He doesn't have the stuff between the ears to make him great.

He is the center version of Luke Babbitt, giving us hope sometimes, but mainly having us pull our hair out most the time.

 

[HailBlazers]

I was looking at Meyers' stats yesterday. What struck me (going off my failing memory) is that he's playing half the minutes per game as last year, and in fewer games. In those games, his shooting percentages are a bit lower, which I'd attribute to inconsistent minutes and small sample size. But on a per minute basis, virtually all his other stats are improved -- with the exception of blocked shots. It's clear that the coaching staff has told him to flat out don't go for blocks, and to keep his verticality ala Freeland and Lopez. I think they are deconstrucing his game so they can build it back under their guidance. Hence, he's looking pretty tentative most of the time.

Repped, he has improved. Albeit not as much, or as fast as most would like. And while he does continue to look like a fish outta water, if you look past his glaring deficiencies you can see progress in his game.

The center position in the NBA is extremely difficult to learn. The refs don't respect you and the opponents are targeting you. It's really a double edged sword.

 

[Schilly]

Even Noah went like this his 1st 2 seasons (per36)
11.5pts, 9.8reb
10.0pts, 11.3reb

And he was 22 and 23 instead of 20 and 21.

 

[Schilly]

The bulk of Centers struggle with Fouls, footwork and reaction time in their 1st couple of years. If you look it takes most centers especially bigger ones, about 3-4 years, sometimes 5 before they "Break out".

 

[riverman]

Leonard definitely makes a case for guys staying in college for 4years. Robin Lopez wasn't lighting it up his first two seasons. I think he'll surprise people when they finally accept the fact that he's not a center, he's a really tall PF

 

[magnifier661]

Even Noah went like this his 1st 2 seasons (per36)
11.5pts, 9.8reb
10.0pts, 11.3reb

And he was 22 and 23 instead of 20 and 21.

That's good. Leonard isn't good

 

[Schilly]

Most teams fans with young centers have this exact same discussion when that guy is 20 or 21.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I see stats being used to show that just because they have a slow start in the NBA doesn't mean they will always be like that, and I agree. But for every successful player who started slow in the NBA there are probably 3 other players that started slow and never made it. I'm sure I could find many names that had stats comparable to Leonard that never really made it in the league after a few years.

For instance, Jermaine is often used here as a caution to trading a big man away. But Jermaine showed much more promise than Leonard and wasn't exactly traded away for peanuts (which is what Leonard would command right now). I don't know what Lopez looked like at Phx, but guessing he showed more promise than Leonard.

I don't think you can rely on other players stats to show what Leonard will or won't be in the future. But I think us Blazers fans have better gauge than that, we all have probably watched 90% of the minutes Leonard has played in the NBA.

Personally, I see a player with and NBA body and talent to make it in this league but I don't see a budding star who is just waiting to break out. He is an easy player to have on the roster right now with his rookie salary and team attitude. Whether he will be deserving of that elusive 2nd multi-year contract we will see. But I would say at the rate I see development, the odds are against him. I think his best case is hoping he can continue to get 1 year contract in hopes he eventually turns into stable NBA player who can command a mulit-year contract.

 

[Prue]

Meyers might could 'get it' in 2-3 more years. He doesn't have that instinct that seems to ooze out of guards in this league...players who can 'feel' where people are on the floor, where to be to improve spacing and to be in the right place at the right time. Skill then develops to compensate for this. For Meyers...there are some things he needs to learn in short order:

1) Arms straight up. They have made this a 'centers game' in the paint so long as we show the arms. He needs to quit swiping at the ball down low and be confident in his ability to either be in the way and affect the short or simply block it at the rim. LA probably does the BEST at the 'swipe' move for a big guy but he gets called for the hack every now and then...its risky without quick hands and timing.

2) Block out. Shot goes up, the FIRST reaction of Meyers (and others on the team too...Robin stands almost alone in doing this well consistently) is to watch where the ball is going and not looking/feeling where his man is. You can do BOTH, look and box out but it takes footwork and arm spacing to feel where you man is...If he can get this down he'll get rebounds...or at least make it easier for T-rob to snatch em

3) Roll with expectation. No one is switching on the P&R to stay with Meyers, they are crowding whoever is driving. Meyers doesn't expect the pass and even if it doesnt come he should be EXPECTING it to be there and go straight up to the rim with it hard. I'm not 100% sure what he is doing now, its like he's trying to roll to a 'mark' on the floor THEN turn to face for the pass...once he rolls out of the screen he needs to be eyes on the ball WHILE moving the body to the rim.

CAN he learn these things? Im sure he can. Heck, if he were more confident in his shot he could POP and shoot that 10-12 foot shot...but I'd rather see him roll. He's got some vert too...that low-post spin move LA use to do with Andre was money...if he could add that to the game, Mo could get the ball up there. (for that matter I dont know why we dont run T-rob, Will, and Nic more from the corner across the baseline for this...that line is open a lot of times since teams are watching the shooter.

I dunno, Meyers is going to likely have to develop most of this OFF the court since it sounds like Joel might be back up and running for limited mins here soon.

 

[riverman]

On a really positive note, Meyers is 5 fouls when guys ahead of him are in foul trouble and he's money at the freethrow line. Not a bad thing to have for a 3rd string bench player who's 7'1. I fully expect him to take on the challenge and at least try to accomplish what Joel did last summer and if he doesn't, we need future draft picks at the trade deadline.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Most likely not available, but I want a Plumlee. Either one will do, but I'd prefer the one that plays for the Nets. He just blocked a LeBron dunk to preserve a 1 point victory. He's athletic, runs the floor well and plays both smart and aggressive.

BNM

 

[OneLifeToLive]

Joel Embiid

 

[HailBlazers]

Joel Embiid

Get it done Neil

 

[Schilly]

I see stats being used to show that just because they have a slow start in the NBA doesn't mean they will always be like that, and I agree. But for every successful player who started slow in the NBA there are probably 3 other players that started slow and never made it. I'm sure I could find many names that had stats comparable to Leonard that never really made it in the league after a few years.

Not as easy as you might think. I ran through all the 1st round centers in the last 10 years or so and those who are completely awol had significantly worse numbers. Lopez was a lost foul machine in Phoenix. Obviously stats don't show everything. But 21 year old 7'1" guy that just grabs rebounds at his clip is worth waiting another year on.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Not as easy as you might think. I ran through all the 1st round centers in the last 10 years or so and those who are completely awol had significantly worse numbers. Lopez was a lost foul machine in Phoenix. Obviously stats don't show everything. But 21 year old 7'1" guy that just grabs rebounds at his clip is worth waiting another year on.

I haven't done any research, so I'll take your word on that. Maybe it's all the time Leonard got last year that increased his number . . . or maybe there is something there that I just don't see (very possible).

The trend I don't like is his minutes have decreased. He has had his chances but doesn't seem to be doing enough on the court to get more playing time. It would be different if he was stuck behind a player, but Freeland and Robinson have opened the door to Leonard taking some minutes and he can't seem to do many positive things out there.

But I agree he is worth keeping and I'll even go further and say they keep him for that 4th yr. I have seen some good and sometimes exciting stuff from Leonard, he is 7'1" and can run jump and shoot . . . but after almost 2 yrs of what of seen, he has an uphill battle to be a long term keeper in this league.

 

[Schilly]

Since 2005 Centers that didn't pan out
Name (Years Played)
Shelden Williams
Patrick O'Bryant
Saer Sene
Hilton Armstrong
Alexis Ajinca
Hasheem Thabeet
Cole Aldrich
Bismack Biyombo

Meyers has better numbers than most those guys and most of them played at least 5 years. Many more had similar numbers for their 1st few years and went on to be contributing players.

 

[PapaG]

He just blocked a LeBron dunk to preserve a 1 point victory.
BNM

That was an obvious foul on Plumlee. Had the foul been called, and James hits the FTs, it's still a good foul. Yet, it's a foul, and he was late on his rotation.

 

[PapaG]

Since 2005 Centers that didn't pan out
Name (Years Played)
Shelden Williams
Patrick O'Bryant
Saer Sene
Hilton Armstrong
Alexis Ajinca
Hasheem Thabeet
Cole Aldrich
Bismack Biyombo

Meyers has better numbers than most those guys and most of them played at least 5 years. Many more had similar numbers for their 1st few years and went on to be contributing players.

I like that you still think you're going to pry any of the "Leonar_" gang away from their extremely negative opinions of him.

 

[Schilly]

There really have only been a small small handful of centers that in their 1st 2 seasons look like keepers at the time. Brook Lopez, Greg Monroe, Demarcus Cousins and Andre Drummond are about it.

 

[Schilly]

I like that you still think you're going to pry any of the "Leonar_" gang away from their extremely negative opinions of him.

No I don't have that much faith in people to actually be logical and realistic from the standpoint of how a franchise looks at athletically talented 7 footers. They are much more inclined to expect instant gratification from the hardest position to learn and adjust to.

 

[Schilly]

I don't expect him to be an All Star or even a legit career starting Center, but I definitely see enough in him to think he can earn a career as a 2nd string guy at the 5 spot. I do see that in a lot of regards he has regressed statistically, but his PT has also been very inconsistent and about half the minutes in much fewer games, but he has more competition for PT this season. Freeland definitely made more significant strides and Robinson shows much better "baller" instincts.