We're in meltdown!

[UKRAINEFAN]

Its all about Aldridge. Without him our core of great role players doesn't make sense. Get a bunch of young athletic guys to play with Dame and see if some of them fit well.

I don't think it was all about Aldridge. I think they were trying to change his surrounding cast. Really, once they traded for Plumlee and signed Aminu it was looking like Wes and Rolo weren't coming back; and it was clinched once they started trying to pair Monroe with Aldridge. I'm not sure if Wes and Rolo even wanted to come back; or if it was just Olshey not seeing them as good value.

 

[Sinobas]

I'm actually not too unhappy with our off-season. Of course, once the season starts we could find out that this team is horrible, but I like scrappy high energy players, and that's what we've been acquiring. Davis, Plumlee, Henderson, Aminu....

For years, the Blazers have been a jump shooting team and last in the league in fast break points and steals. This will be a nice change. And of course, they still have a lot of money to spend..

 

[craigehlo]

I'm actually not too unhappy with our off-season. Of course, once the season starts we could find out that this team is horrible, but I like scrappy high energy players, and that's what we've been acquiring. Davis, Plumlee, Henderson, Aminu....

For years, the Blazers have been a jump shooting team and last in the league in fast break points and steals. This will be a nice change. And of course, they still have a lot of money to spend..

I'm not unhappy either since the upside of the old lineup was getting blown out in the 2nd round at best. At best.

If we can salvage one good signing (Tobias Harris) or a trade for a scorer (DeRosen) this is a solid start to the rebuild. I agree that we needed to improve team D and run the ball down other team's throats.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I'm actually not too unhappy with our off-season. Of course, once the season starts we could find out that this team is horrible, but I like scrappy high energy players, and that's what we've been acquiring. Davis, Plumlee, Henderson, Aminu....

For years, the Blazers have been a jump shooting team and last in the league in fast break points and steals. This will be a nice change. And of course, they still have a lot of money to spend..

Same here ...so far.

I like that he got young vets who can step in right away. My favorite move was landing Vonleh.

I'd go after Tobias or look at a lopsided trade with the cap.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Screw "names". Rudy Gay is a "name" - but he is just an empty stat sheet. Wes was never a "big name", but he was a difference maker. These guys are not difference makers. They are decent complimentary players on a team that has 2 or 3 difference makers. We don't, which makes these guys superfluous.

The league gave up on Wes, who never became a big name, but he played great.
The league gave up on Rolo, who never became a big name, but he played great.
The league didn't think much of Batum, who never became a big name, but he played great.

So, now you (and many others here) don't think much of these guys. OK, but I think in a year or two you all will be saying...
The league gave up on these guys, who never became big names, but they played great.

 

[Sinobas]

It seems that Allen/Olshey went into this offseason with an agenda to get younger and more athletic. Lillard and Meyers were really the only two guys on our team that you could call athletic. Everyone else was average or below average.

 

[BMC]

don't forget CJ!
Move to being more of a fast break team. Still have guys that can hit 3's, but need offense to be more than Aldridge + 3's

 

[Minstrel]

Screw "names". Rudy Gay is a "name" - but he is just an empty stat sheet. Wes was never a "big name", but he was a difference maker. These guys are not difference makers. They are decent complimentary players on a team that has 2 or 3 difference makers. We don't, which makes these guys superfluous.

You considered Wes Matthews a "difference-maker" at the time that the Blazers signed him? I suspect that, at the time, you also considered him to be, at best, a decent complementary player.

I think that Ed Davis and Mason Plumlee are exactly the type of smart bets that Matthews and Lopez were. Matthews and Lopez proved to be difference-makers on the cheap and it remains to be seen whether Davis and Plumlee do the same, but they have clear strengths and are young enough to be good for a while.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

You considered Wes Matthews a "difference-maker" at the time that the Blazers signed him? I suspect that, at the time, you also considered him to be, at best, a decent complementary player.

I think that Ed Davis and Mason Plumlee are exactly the type of smart bets that Matthews and Lopez were. Matthews and Lopez proved to be difference-makers on the cheap and it remains to be seen whether Davis and Plumlee do the same, but they have clear strengths and are young enough to be good for a while.

Thank you for understanding, I'm glad someone else gets it!

 

[oldmangrouch]

You considered Wes Matthews a "difference-maker" at the time that the Blazers signed him? I suspect that, at the time, you also considered him to be, at best, a decent complementary player.

I think that Ed Davis and Mason Plumlee are exactly the type of smart bets that Matthews and Lopez were. Matthews and Lopez proved to be difference-makers on the cheap and it remains to be seen whether Davis and Plumlee do the same, but they have clear strengths and are young enough to be good for a while.

Wrong question.

The question you should be asking is whether the BLAZERS knew what they were getting, or was it dumb luck?

Hope is not a plan.

 

[B-Roy]

Wrong question.

The question you should be asking is whether the BLAZERS knew what they were getting, or was it dumb luck?

Hope is not a plan.

Well Matthews wasn't an Olshey pick, so we don't know what he felt about him at the time. What we do know though is that he picked up RoLo on a 5 million/yr deal. He turned out to be a difference maker, but Olshey didn't even bat an eye when he (presumably) left for 13 million a year. Clearly he did not feel Lopez was worth that much. I have no reason not to trust him on the new guys....at least for now.

 

[Minstrel]

Wrong question.

No, it was the right question in querying your evaluations. If I could talk to Olshey or Cho or Pritchett directly, I'd ask different questions.

The question you should be asking is whether the BLAZERS knew what they were getting, or was it dumb luck?

Hope is not a plan.

That isn't how things work in real life. You don't simply "know" or "not know." Every evaluation is probabilistic. You don't sign Lopez or Davis because you either know for a fact that they're going to be really good or else just sign at random. Similarly, you don't either draft Lillard because you know for a fact he'll be really good or else just draft randomly. All signings and draft picks are based on a probabilistic evaluation--you use your evaluation and analytical skills to determine the best risks and then go after those guys and hope (yes, hope) that those risks pan out. Every single player you acquire is a risk proposal, though you can reduce the risks at higher costs (signing LeBron James carries far lower risk at far higher price).

Saying that "hope is not a plan" is a good bumper sticker but a poor reflection of how any kind of business gets done in the real world. Yes, you don't want to rely on hope, but after you've done the work and (ideally) made smart decisions based on the existing evidence, all you can do is hope that smart investments actually pan out. Taking a bunch of 75% success rate bets at low cost, for example, is smart but there's a 25% chance on each of them that they'll still fail.

This is obviously complicated by the fact that no one on Earth knows the actual chances of any particular player panning out.

So no, the Blazers didn't know what they were getting. That's the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is, what makes you bet on one player over another? In the case of Davis and Plumlee, it's that they're proven strong rebounders (based on what percentage of rebounding opportunities they corral) and have shown good explosion and finishing ability in the pick-and-roll, which is a big deal in what is currently a pick-and-roll league. In addition, they've both shown production or potential as rim protectors (which is the most desired defensive ability in a big man these days). In Plumlee's case, he followed a strong rookie season with an up-and-down second season. So, obviously there's some risk here, but there's a lot of upside reward.

 

[riverman]

No, it was the right question in querying your evaluations. If I could talk to Olshey or Cho or Pritchett directly, I'd ask different questions.



That isn't how things work in real life. You don't simply "know" or "not know." Every evaluation is probabilistic. You don't sign Lopez or Davis because you either know for a fact that they're going to be really good or else just sign at random. Similarly, you don't either draft Lillard because you know for a fact he'll be really good or else just draft randomly. All signings and draft picks are based on a probabilistic evaluation--you use your evaluation and analytical skills to determine the best risks and then go after those guys and hope (yes, hope) that those risks pan out. Every single player you acquire is a risk proposal, though you can reduce the risks at higher costs (signing LeBron James carries far lower risk at far higher price).

Saying that "hope is not a plan" is a good bumper sticker but a poor reflection of how any kind of business gets done in the real world. Yes, you don't want to rely on hope, but after you've done the work and (ideally) made smart decisions based on the existing evidence, all you can do is hope that smart investments actually pan out. Taking a bunch of 75% success rate bets at low cost, for example, is smart but there's a 25% chance on each of them that they'll still fail.

This is obviously complicated by the fact that no one on Earth knows the actual chances of any particular player panning out.

So no, the Blazers didn't know what they were getting. That's the wrong question to ask. The right question to ask is, what makes you bet on one player over another? In the case of Davis and Plumlee, it's that they're proven strong rebounders (based on what percentage of rebounding opportunities they corral) and have shown good explosion and finishing ability in the pick-and-roll, which is a big deal in what is currently a pick-and-roll league. In addition, they've both shown production or potential as rim protectors (which is the most desired defensive ability in a big man these days). In Plumlee's case, he followed a strong rookie season with an up-and-down second season. So, obviously there's some risk here, but there's a lot of upside reward.

Excellent post!

 

[BrianFromWA]

I miss Minstrel being able to write 10 pages at a time. If only it wasn't LMA's free agency that brought us to this pass!

 

[Minstrel]

I miss Minstrel being able to write 10 pages at a time. If only it wasn't LMA's free agency that brought us to this pass!

Actually, it was the trade of Batum that brought me back, but with everything else going on, there's more to chat about!

 

[Draco]

I'm still hoping we can pick up a nice asset in a sign and trade. Afflalo, Rolo, or Wes could potentially be constructed as sign and trades that net us some nugget of value. If LaMarcus stays here yes that'd be great; if he wants to pick Houston or Miami that would be the second best outcome. Dmo and Ariza or Winslow and Deng would be great pieces.

 

[Shooter]

But to answer your question, yes, you are the only who is stunned. I don't think it occurred to any of us to be stunned.

Stunned now?

In the space of 10 days we have lost our starting center, our starting power forward, our starting small forward, and our starting shooting guard. Not to mention the player we traded for to fill in for our starting shooting guard when he got injured last year. I can't recall any other team in NBA history losing as many players in one off season as the Blazers have this year.

Anybody who says they aren't stunned is lying through their teeth.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Stunned now?

In the space of 10 days we have lost our starting center, our starting power forward, our starting small forward, and our starting shooting guard. Not to mention the player we traded for to fill in for our starting shooting guard when he got injured last year. I can't recall any other team in NBA history losing as many players in one off season as the Blazers have this year.

Anybody who says they aren't stunned is lying through their teeth.

1. Read the rest of the threads. Lots of posts from people who are stunned. I really don't think we needed a separate stunned thread. Should we make a thread for every emotion?

2. Personally I have mixed emotions about this, it sucks to see him go but I got 10 to 1 odds on a bet that he was staying. My $20 just got me $200.

 

[Shooter]

1. Read the rest of the threads. Lots of posts from people who are stunned.

Do you even read your own posts?? You claimed that I was the only one on the board who was stunned, and that it hadn't occurred to anyone else to be stunned. Turns out that you had your head up your ass, or else you were just being an arrogant prick. Or maybe both.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Do you even read your own posts?? You claimed that I was the only one on the board who was stunned, and that it hadn't occurred to anyone else to be stunned. Turns out that you had your head up your ass, or else you were just being an arrogant prick. Or maybe both.

 

[maxiep]

You considered Wes Matthews a "difference-maker" at the time that the Blazers signed him? I suspect that, at the time, you also considered him to be, at best, a decent complementary player.

I think that Ed Davis and Mason Plumlee are exactly the type of smart bets that Matthews and Lopez were. Matthews and Lopez proved to be difference-makers on the cheap and it remains to be seen whether Davis and Plumlee do the same, but they have clear strengths and are young enough to be good for a while.

Never forget, Wes was signed to be Brandon's backup. He developed into the player that earned that Dallas contract based on his excellent play and work ethic he developed here.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Do you even read your own posts?? You claimed that I was the only one on the board who was stunned, and that it hadn't occurred to anyone else to be stunned. Turns out that you had your head up your ass, or else you were just being an arrogant prick. Or maybe both.

Hahahaha!

Yes, I am an arrogant prick.

I was just having some fun with you. Do you even read your own posts? More importantly do read posts in threads that you don't create? This is how you started off this thread,

What the hell is going on??? Am I the only one who is stunned by all of these Blazer free agents signing with other teams?

Come on Shooter, there are 1000s of posts in threads from people who are upset over what has happened this off season and you actually start a thread asking if anyone is upset or stunned?!? I thought it was funny. A little strange and myopic but funny. If you want to slam your fist against your chest and declare some sort of victory then great! You were right. Not sure what about but if you need to be told that you were right then I'll stroke that ego.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Hahahaha!

Yes, I am an arrogant prick.

I was just having some fun with you. Do you even read your own posts? More importantly do read posts in threads that you don't create? This is how you started off this thread,

What the hell is going on??? Am I the only one who is stunned by all of these Blazer free agents signing with other teams?

Come on Shooter, there are 1000s of posts in threads from people who are upset over what has happened this off season and you actually start a thread asking if anyone is upset or stunned?!? I thought it was funny. A little strange and myopic but funny. If you want to slam your fist against your chest and declare some sort of victory then great! You were right. Not sure what about but if you need to be told that you were right then I'll stroke that ego.

You play with people, most all of us enjoy it. Some can't handle it - that's been my experience.

 

[maxiep]

What we have now is room. Room for minutes. Room for competition. Room for players to develop.

The next couple of years are going to be about seeing what we have. Some players may step up and become starting quality. Some others may show they weren't worthy of their contracts.

This team is built around Lillard now. It's all about him. We build around his strengths and weaknesses. At least we now have a clear strategy.

 

[tlongII]

What we have now is a shitty team. Attendance will drop and rumors of the team moving to Seattle will resurface.

 

[Wheels]

What we have now is a shitty team. Attendance will drop and rumors of the team moving to Seattle will resurface.

Then I'll be able to watch games finally cause I'll be out of range for Comcast. Sell Paul sell!

 

[Harry's Raincoat]

Meltdown? Only because of the heat outside.

Blazers/Olshey didn't choose for Aldridge to leave for Spurs. But, once he was undecided and days went by, the prospect of keeping Matthews and Lopez went out the window. Can you imagine if he'd have been so stupid as to listen to fans on this board demanding we keep those guys for $13-$16M per year? And then not to get LMA? Wow.

Olshey showed great restraint and poise in getting the assets he got for Batum, #23 and Blake. Seriously!

I agree its an offseason of great monumental change, but we knew it was possible. It never was a consideration that we would keep Rolo or Matthews without Aldridge. That would have been stupid.

So, here we are, back to acquiring assets for future trades and draft picks. It is what it is.

 

[Minstrel]

Anybody who says they aren't stunned is lying through their teeth.

Listen to yourself! Only a Sith deals in absolutes!

I'm not stunned, because none of these developments were unexpected. Is losing 4/5ths of a successful starting lineup in one offseason unusual? Sure. But none of the moves came out of left field. I'm probably most surprised by the Batum trade and even that doesn't register very high on the shocked/stunned scale.

 

[Shooter]

Come on Shooter, there are 1000s of posts in threads from people who are upset over what has happened this off season and you actually start a thread asking if anyone is upset or stunned?!?

I started my thread right after we learned that Lopez and Matthews were definitely leaving. That's basically when we all knew this crap was real. It's also worth pointing out that the first person who responded to this thread said that he was about to make the same kind of post, but that I had beaten him to it. But go ahead and "have your fun," my friend. You aren't important enough to waste any more time responding to.

 

[Shooter]

I'm not stunned, because none of these developments were unexpected.

You expected to lose Aldridge, Matthews, Batum, Lopez, Afflalo, and Blake after the season ended?? Sorry, go sell that shit somewhere else because I'm not buying.