What are your beliefs on religion, god?

[BLAZER PROPHET]

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth....

That's where my beliefs start.

 

[ABM]

I think it's a little arrogant for someone to assume that believing in God is a delusion. It would be like me telling you that you don't live your mother.

Well, actually, if I lived with my mother, you might call that delusional.

 

[crowTrobot]

It's pretty simple to explain a relationship is not delusional; just as one would explain their relationship with their daughter, wife or girlfriend. Or you can go even further and see how people like us have a relationship with the blazers.

I think it's a little arrogant for someone to assume that believing in God is a delusion. It would be like me telling you that you don't live your mother.

if your mother was invisible and undetectable by any means other than your personal emotional response that might almost make sense.

in what way is it arrogant to consider relationships with invisible friends potentially delusional? as noted many of them are mutually exclusive so there's clearly at least a large amount of delusion involved in the phenomena, and humans are demonstratably prone to it. i just asked how someone goes about determining that their invisible friend is objectively real and those of others aren't.

 

[TripTango]

They were desperate for something they knew to be a lie? I don't understand, I believe all but one of Jesus' apostles wasn't martyred for what they claimed to have seen on the cross and then the days and weeks followed. The book of Acts is a remarkably accurate historical document (written by the same author as the Gospel of Luke) and gives insight on what the Apostles endured in their preaching of the Gospel.

Nope. I'm quite certain that most of them believed it with all their heart. Sadly, the willingness to martyr oneself does not guarantee the truth of one's cause.

 

[crowTrobot]

Because I believe that all of creation began exactly the way the Bible prescribes.

that's about the worst thing you could point to to validate the existence of your invisible friend.

 

[ABM]

if your mother was invisible and undetectable by any means other than your personal emotional response that might almost make sense.

in what way is it arrogant to consider relationships with invisible friends potentially delusional? as noted many of them are mutually exclusive so there's clearly at least a large amount of delusion involved in the phenomena, and humans are demonstratably prone to it. i just asked how someone goes about determining that their invisible friend is objectively real and those of others aren't.

I don't think you are arrogant. I don't think you are right, though.

Thomas had to see the nail holes in Jesus' hands before he would believe. John 20:29 describes that moment like this:

Jesus said, “So, you believe because you’ve seen with your own eyes. Even better blessings are in store for those who believe without seeing.”

If everything were absolutely provable, then there would be no apparent reason for faith. I think God knew this all along.

 

[ABM]

that's about the worst thing you could point to to validate the existence of your invisible friend.

Alas, I also alluded to many, many personal experiences and miracles, which have substantiate my beliefs over, and over, and over again, my friend.

In our court system, we often rely on witnesses, who provide testimony of what they have experienced and/or seen/hear. Provided they are not lying under oath, it is not our place, nor necessarily our right, to discount what they have said. They are simply stating the facts of their experience(s) as they know them to be.

 

[ABM]

I'll play, though. Here's how it works:

crowTrobot: You are delusion in believing in your invisible friend.

ABM: Really? Delusional? OK, prove to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that God didn't create the heavens and the earth.

crowTrobot: I'll have to get back to you on that.

 

[magnifier661]

if your mother was invisible and undetectable by any means other than your personal emotional response that might almost make sense.

in what way is it arrogant to consider relationships with invisible friends potentially delusional? as noted many of them are mutually exclusive so there's clearly at least a large amount of delusion involved in the phenomena, and humans are demonstratably prone to it. i just asked how someone goes about determining that their invisible friend is objectively real and those of others aren't.

To you; it's invisible. To me; it's as real as the fingers I'm typing this post with.

 

[magnifier661]

Alas, I also alluded to many, many personal experiences and miracles, which have substantiate my beliefs over, and over, and over again, my friend.

In our court system, we often rely on witnesses, who provide testimony of what they have experienced and/or seen/hear. Provided they are not lying under oath, it is not our place, nor necessarily our right, to discount what they have said. They are simply stating the facts of their experience(s) as they know them to be.

Very good point. According to crow; eye witnesses in murder cases should all be thrown out.

 

[magnifier661]

I'll play, though. Here's how it works:

crowTrobot: You are delusion in believing in your invisible friend.

ABM: Really? Delusional? OK, prove to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that God didn't create the heavens and the earth.

crowTrobot: I'll have to get back to you on that.

This is why I didn't want to interfere between the debate with trip and crow.

 

[drexlersdad]

Because I believe that all of creation began exactly the way the Bible prescribes.

adam and eve?

 

[crowTrobot]

To you; it's invisible. To me; it's as real as the fingers I'm typing this post with.

presumably you wouldn't claim your mother is invisible if i wanted to go see her. or maybe you would.

 

[drexlersdad]

Numbers 31:14-18
14 Moses was angry with the officers of the army—the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds—who returned from the battle.

15 “Have you allowed all the women to live?” he asked them. 16 “They were the ones who followed Balaam’s advice and enticed the Israelites to be unfaithful to the Lord in the Peor incident, so that a plague struck the Lord’s people. 17 Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, 18 but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

umm, for what?

 

[crowTrobot]

I'll play, though. Here's how it works:

crowTrobot: You are delusion in believing in your invisible friend.

ABM: Really? Delusional? OK, prove to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that God didn't create the heavens and the earth.

crowTrobot: I'll have to get back to you on that.

actually i just asked how you would go about differentiating your relationship with Christ from that of someone who has a similar relationship with a different unseen friend that happens to contradict the tenets of christianity.

you say it changed your life, but certainly other people's relationships with metaphysical entities within religions that are mutually exclusive with christianity change their lives in similar ways. what makes your relationship more likely to be objectively real than theirs?

 

[Further]

The ones that should be thrown out are the eye witnesses that say big bird did it.

 

[crowTrobot]

If everything were absolutely provable, then there would be no apparent reason for faith. I think God knew this all along.

it's not going to mean anything to you, but i view the 'god requires faith' argument as an excuse for belief, not a reason.

 

[ABM]

Numbers 31:14-18
18..... but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

umm, for what?

Most likely, either to be servants to them, or to be married to when they grow up.

 

[crowTrobot]

In our court system, we often rely on witnesses, who provide testimony of what they have experienced and/or seen/hear. Provided they are not lying under oath, it is not our place, nor necessarily our right, to discount what they have said. They are simply stating the facts of their experience(s) as they know them to be.

we don't automatically believe everything anyone says in court is true. we parse it as part of an overall picture of credibility.

 

[drexlersdad]

Most likely, either to be servants to them, or to be married to when they grow up.

so moses said to kill their parents, then kidnap the virgin little girls for sex slaves

what a guy

 

[drexlersdad]

not being snarky here, but is there an official explanation about adam and eve populating the earth? or just a shitload of incest

 

[ABM]

actually i just asked how you would go about differentiating your relationship with Christ from that of someone who has a similar relationship with a different unseen friend that happens to contradict the tenets of christianity.

you say it changed your life, but certainly other people's relationships with metaphysical entities within religions that are mutually exclusive with christianity change their lives in similar ways. what makes your relationship more likely to be objectively real than theirs?

As far as I know, Christianity (that is, Jesus, as part of the God trinity, Savior, Lord....coupled with the Holy Spirit, which he left us prior to his ascension into Heaven) is the only "relational" and faith-based "religion", as opposed to works-based, whereas Jesus is simply a man, prophet or such...in other words, "less" than God.

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word "was" God."

The Scripture also tell me:

(Ephesians 2:8-9) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Jesus (God's Son, yet ALL God) is the common denominator under which all that I believe.

 

[ABM]

we don't automatically believe everything anyone says in court is true. we parse it as part of an overall picture of credibility.

Absolutely.

That said, there are an amazing number of Christian men and women who, through their respective life bodies of work, are considered credible (sane) in their thinking, and as notable and respected sources. I really think you begin to stretch matters when you begin using such words as delusional, etc.

 

[drexlersdad]

As far as I know, Christianity (that is, Jesus, as part of the God trinity, Savior, Lord....coupled with the Holy Spirit, which he left us prior to his ascension into Heaven) is the only "relational" and faith-based "religion", as opposed to works-based, whereas Jesus is simply a man, prophet or such...in other words, "less" than God.

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word "was" God."

The Scripture also tell me:

(Ephesians 2:8-9) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Jesus (God's Son, yet ALL God) is the common denominator under which all that I believe.

John 14:28
28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

 

[ABM]

not being snarky here...

Sure you are.

 

[ABM]

John 14:28
28 “You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.

When Jesus came as a man, that is what He said. He is now at the right hand of the Father. Meaning, Jesus is more than a prophet, a good man, or such. He is Savior and LORD. God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. We get three in one, baby! Neat, huh? What a deal!

 

[drexlersdad]

Sure you are.

is there an answer?

ive wondered about after the flood too, was their just noahs family left to repopulate?

 

[crowTrobot]

That said, there are an amazing number of Christian men and women who, through their respective life bodies of work, are considered credible (sane) in their thinking, and as notable and respected sources. I really think you begin to stretch matters when you begin using such words as delusional, etc.

how would you describe your presonal relationship with Christ if (say hypothetically) objective evidence turned up that jesus was just a man? your relationship wouldn't have been simply due to misinformation. it would have been a genuine delusion. there would be no better term to describe it.

presumably you would have no problem describing priests (for example) who genuinely believe they are talking to other gods using that term.

 

[crowTrobot]

As far as I know, Christianity (that is, Jesus, as part of the God trinity, Savior, Lord....coupled with the Holy Spirit, which he left us prior to his ascension into Heaven) is the only "relational" and faith-based "religion", as opposed to works-based, whereas Jesus is simply a man, prophet or such...in other words, "less" than God.

John 1:1 says, "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus), and the Word was with God, and the Word "was" God."

The Scripture also tell me:

(Ephesians 2:8-9) "For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast."

Jesus (God's Son, yet ALL God) is the common denominator under which all that I believe.

nice sermon, but what is any of that suppose to mean to an outsider who is trying to judge the probability of the objective existence of different metaphysical religious entities? it's a given that christianity makes unique claims. all religions do.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

not being snarky here, but is there an official explanation about adam and eve populating the earth? or just a shitload of incest

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve