What constitutes being a "Fan"? A Jerry McGuire Moment........

[GrandpaBlaze]

Nobody with any common sense thought at the beginning of the season we were going to make noise in the playoffs.

Agreed. In the back of my head (the homer part of my head), I had dreams of being this year's New Orleans, a team that comes out of nowhere to become a very legitimate contender. Realistically, however, that is a pipe dream.

As others have said, Oden is coming back from surgery and considerable time away from playing basketball. Strike 1, he is going to be rusty. Strike 2, he is playing against a level of competition that he has never faced before. Strike 3, the reffing and rules in the NBA are different than in lower levels. This is a development, learning and get the rust out year for Greg.

Webster getting hurt put a major crimp in things at the SF position. There are many camps out there about SF but I think, of the people we have, Martell is the best starting quality SF Portland has.

We are giving significant time to three rookies; Oden, Batum and Fernandez. Batum already wrote about the "rookie" wall in his blog and I'm sure the others have/do face it to a degree at various times.

Our depth has proven to be somewhat a chimera and, as evidenced by the numerous "trade XXX" or "XXX Sucks!" posts, there has been much dissatisfaction with how some of the reserves (and/or starters) have played.

In short, the cake is baking and as it does so, it gives KP and management more insight into team needs, both short and long term. I appreciate that KP isn't a Trader Bob, making trades, seemingly just to make trades at times but that he seems to carefully consider options and gets the most bang-for-the-buck whenever a move is made.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a Blazer trade mid-year, but then again, if the right deal/deals do not materialize, I also would not be surprised if nothing is done before the trade deadline.

Gramps...

 

[bodyman5001]

Is this a joke? I can't tell.

Ed O.

It was a joke whether intended or not.

 

[bodyman5001]

Bodyman... I think Nate is a brilliant coach. Absolutely amazing. Look at our lineup. Blake, probably shouldn't be starting in NBA. Roy... Allstar... enough said. Batum... give me a break. Aldridge is good... but has weaknesses. Oden has been not so hot. So given that lineup... name a coach who would have this team with a better record right now... or win 13 straight last year. I don't think there is one. We are playing way over our heads in my opinion... and Nate is the reason.

It will be faster to name THE coach who wouldn't have a better record with this team. Mo Cheeks.


Hey, didn't we have that guy too?

 

[BrianFromWA]

How much experience did Paul, West, and Chandler have last year? Bueller? Or is Peja the over-the-top component?

 

[ly_yng]

How much experience did Paul, West, and Chandler have last year? Bueller? Or is Peja the over-the-top component?

I think Paul was the over-the-top component.

No-one on the Blazers is playing at an MVP level, so New Orleans isn't a very good comparison. I think that the championship Pistons are probably a better touchstone for this particular team. Or maybe a much better version of those Memphis playoff teams under Hubie Brown.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Some of the gripes have merit.

Nate McMillan is a horrible offensive X's and O's coach. I'd go as far to say that he's as bad, if not worse, than Mo Cheeks in that area. Offensive mastermind he is not.

Greg Oden doesn't even look half decent. Not even close. I know he's coming off an injury but it's just basketball. It's not that hard. Remember, Greg, it's a childs game! quit acting like it's the hardest thing to do in the world. A lot (ok, most) of his fouls are straight up bone headed.

I can only imagine how much more developed the players would be if we had a decent coach. Nate's more of a motivator than he is a head coach.

 

[Ed O]

I think there are some fans that are extremely overoptimistic and some that are pessimistic.

I'm not sure how many are both. I haven't done a scientific study or anything, but I would guess that one group of fans pipes up after wins and the other pipes up after losses, and while a couple change their mind I think it just SEEMS like the board is changing its mind to the rest of us who are either less emotional about things or just overall more even-keeled in our posting.

Ed O.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Greg Oden doesn't even look half decent. Not even close. I know he's coming off an injury but it's just basketball. It's not that hard. Remember, Greg, it's a childs game! quit acting like it's the hardest thing to do in the world. A lot (ok, most) of his fouls are straight up bone headed.

I'm looking forward to you suiting up for tomorrow night's game and showing us all how it's done, then.

 

[timmay]

I think there are some fans that are extremely overoptimistic and some that are pessimistic.

I'm not sure how many are both. I haven't done a scientific study or anything, but I would guess that one group of fans pipes up after wins and the other pipes up after losses, and while a couple change their mind I think it just SEEMS like the board is changing its mind to the rest of us who are either less emotional about things or just overall more even-keeled in our posting.

You've pretty much nailed it. I usually watch for the usernames. It's not scientific, but I keep it in mind when reading.

There's a group of very positive people, and a group of very negative people.

The positive people WILL NOT listen to any complaints about certain people. (Read: Travis Outlaw, Nate, maybe Greg and LMA). This team is going to win it, as they are now. They're on their way to a championship very quickly, and every win shows why. If they win one where they dominate, it shows they're dominant. If they win one where they play poorly, well that's what champions do. If they lose, it's because they're tired (have you seen the schedule to start the season? OMG!), or had one bad game, or the refs stole it from them.

The negative people WILL NOT listen to defense of the things that are wrong (Read: Travis Outlaw, Nate, Sergio, maybe Blake and Greg). This team needs to make changes, and NOW. The cake is done baking. A few trades need to happen. Bayless will fix all PG problems and is a great defender and needs to start NOW. Fire Nate today, trade Travis for a chicken pot pie if necessary. Oden gets a little longer, but it's obvious he's not going to be dominant, just servicable. This team will not win a title unless we get a better [PG/SF/backup PF/coach] and there's no point in waiting any longer to make changes.

Those are intentionally-comically-stereotypical summaries, and different people will have different nuances of those arguments. I could place explicit usernames next to each of those groups, but the goal is not to call people out. But instead to simply remind everyone that individual fans are not bi-polar; the louder ones simply pipe up based on the current play of the team.

It's very much like watching Democrats and Republicans. The middle ground is lost because the outliers are yelling.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I like "bi-polar" fans . . . it makes the board interesting.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I'm not bi-polar.

I'm a realist.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I'm bi-polar and I love it . . . I am rarely held accountable for my actions and I have access to the best drugs.

 

[Paxil]

I seriously do think Nate has helped this team overachieve. I have my gripes with some of the things Nate does... but I do think that he has done an amazing job getting this group to win. They play hard just about every game. How many NBA teams can you say that about? That alone is worth gold.

 

[Nikolokolus]

How much experience did Paul, West, and Chandler have last year? Bueller? Or is Peja the over-the-top component?

You really need the breakdown?

(last year)
Paul 3 years pro, point guard, MVP level season, probably one of the best point guards in the last twenty years.
Chandler 6 years pro, 8 pts 9 rebounds career average.
West 4 years pro, power forward, 27 years old (4 years of college), 20 pts, 9 rebounds per game.
Peja 9 years pro, career 40% from three, put up 16 points per game and pulled down 4 1/2 boards per game.

So put a once in a generation point guard with a very solid 7'1" center, a nearly 20/10 power forward with an inside and outside game, and a dead eye veteran wing and you have the potential for a helluva run. They key is that Paul had/has a couple of "safety valves" in Peja and West, a luxury Roy doesn't have (although Blake and LaMarcus sometimes fill this role, just not consistently).

 

[MARIS61]

http://www.imdb.com/video/screenplay/vi301072665/

 

[BrianFromWA]

You really need the breakdown?
(last year)
Paul 3 years pro, point guard, MVP level season, probably one of the best point guards in the last twenty years.

And there is a dropoff from Paul to Roy, but not an insane one

Chandler 6 years pro, 8 pts 9 rebounds career average.

So, otherwise, kinda like Joel and Greg combined?

West 4 years pro, power forward, 27 years old (4 years of college), 20 pts, 9 rebounds per game.

So, much like just about every projection of LMA prior to the year. He is in his 3rd vs. 5th year, and didn't have 4 yrs of college. Then again, it was a progression of 17/7 to 18/8 to 20/9 last year. Is there a big difference in team wins between 17/7 and 20/9? I'm not sure.

Peja 9 years pro, career 40% from three, put up 16 points per game and pulled down 4 1/2 boards per game.

He's better than any combo of SFs we've had this year. But wouldn't you say that somehow between them Rudy and Webster and Travis should potentially have given us that?

So put a once in a generation point guard with a very solid 7'1" center, a nearly 20/10 power forward with an inside and outside game, and a dead eye veteran wing and you have the potential for a helluva run. They key is that Paul had/has a couple of "safety valves" in Peja and West, a luxury Roy doesn't have (although Blake and LaMarcus sometimes fill this role, just not consistently).

As I said, Paul>Roy, but I don't see the difference between the two being that much, especially when you look at that Paul generally is attacking the whole game, where Roy is still on-and-off. The point that LMA only sometimes fills the role of safety valve is a good one, but I'm not sure it's due to "inexperience". Perhaps it is, and if he just plays through it for another 3 years or so it'll happen that he's a good safety valve. It seems that our SFs should be able to cover the 16ppg @ 40% 3.

So my projection of 58 wins is hurting (though I'm holding out hope for that 40-12 finish). Some may say that I had an overly optimistic view, and shouldn't let that get in the way of everyone else enjoying the team. So I ask...for those that picked 48 wins or whatever, do you just accept and embrace the poor play because you knew it'd be coming?

The frustrating thing for me isn't that I picked a wrong number. It's when people come on and say "what, like you're smarter than Nate?!" or "How much pro basketball have you played?". The frustration comes b/c even in my relative inexperience in the game I see problems AND relatively immediate solutions in our team, and I'm not alone. There are posters on here much smarter and more experienced in the game than me, and THEY see the same types of things. So it comes down to a couple of choices for me: post reasons why we're not good, or just keep thinking it'll get better with time. It gets better with time and coaching and effort.

 

[Natebishop3]

This is honestly one of the most frustrating teams we've ever had. We have the talent to be great, but we're so up and down. At least when we sucked it was easier to write it off, but now that we have seen what we're capable of, it's much harder to feel "okay" after a loss. It would be one thing if people were on here complaining after a 20-40 point win, but a lot of posters have had complaints (for a while now) about Nate, Travis, and Sergio. It's not like these complaints have manifested in the last couple games or so. They have been consistent since last season, and I suspect they will continue until all three either improve or leave the team.

With that said, I know how you feel HCP. I have been in your position in a way, and I know what it's like to be a part of the "inner circle." I used to get shit from posters for saying that Travis would be a good player his rookie season. I still think he's a good player, but I see his limitations and I don't think he fits in with the future of this team. I'm just trying to give my honest assessment of what Outlaw can do.

Over the last five or six games I've felt a need to take a little breather from being a fan though. I can feel it negatively effecting my mood and I don't like it. One of the reasons why I quit covering the Blazers was because I got so burned out on sports. I was in sports journalism for seven years. I got to the point where I just couldn't watch anything anymore. I was soured on it. I realized what was happening and I quit. I didn't want to be another Jason Quick or John Canzano. Jaded and sour on the game. Sports used to be my passion. I used to watch the NFL and NBA religiously. Not just the Blazers, but other games too. Now I'm pretty much exclusively a Blazer fan, and that's it. It took me a couple years to be able to come back to the Blazers. I don't want to get burned out again.

I think I've just been frustrated because I know what this team is capable of. I just want them to be great. I want to see them reach their full potential.

 

[Minstrel]

I think I've just been frustrated because I know what this team is capable of. I just want them to be great. I want to see them reach their full potential.

You have to keep in mind that they aren't "supposed" to be great this year. They're integrating four rookies (well, integrating three rookies...Bayless is being integrated into the bench). If they were a surprise title contender, that would be great. But this year's most important function is to develop Oden, Batum and Fernandez (and hopefully Bayless), let all the players discover their roles together and figure out the optimal combinations of players.

Plus, there's still the money LaFrentz (and Frye and Diogu) represent that can be invested in another useful player, either by the trade deadline or in the off-season.

This shouldn't be a season of frustration. You should sets your sights low (the players shouldn't, but we should) and just enjoy watching the players develop. This is an exciting part of the process...knowing its still all ahead. Stress-free since the team isn't supposed to accomplish anything major yet. If they do...bonus.

 

[DaRizzle]

So, otherwise, kinda like Joel and Greg combined?

uh, no...believe it or not joel and oden are 2 different people. Chandler got those stats by himself and then ANOTHER player came in and added even more...that entire post is screaming blind homerism but i dont feel like dissecting the entire thing but this was a major one

 

[DaRizzle]

Your team isnt built for this year.Unless you HONESTLY think they have a chance this year to win it all(rocketeer, Kingspeed) then you gotta view this year just as development for the next year. Everything will be much more clear by then. There are a lot of opinions going on around here that might help this year but not be good in the big scheme of things...Let the team play and grow an identity. Dont try to start labeling people incorrectly and then freak out when they dont live up to unrealistic expectations.

This thread isnt me trying to talk trash about your team at all. Even the best players in the league needed a few years to realize their potential.

link

not bragging...but SOME of you should really heed my advice...you would be more sane

 

[oldmangrouch]

The higher the opinion on our talent, the lower the opinion on our coach.

I don't consider Nate to be a "great" coach by any means....but IMHO, the folks ripping on him have a badly inflated view of our players. For years, people banged on TBob for not being a chemistry major - but in terms of ON COURT chemistry, this team is as bad as any Whittsitt roster!

To stick with the popular "cake" analogy, you can't bake a cake by collecting dozens of eggs. You need OTHER ingredients.

 

[Minstrel]

uh, no...believe it or not joel and oden are 2 different people. Chandler got those stats by himself and then ANOTHER player came in and added even more...that entire post is screaming blind homerism but i dont feel like dissecting the entire thing but this was a major one

That was the major one? Oden is getting 8/7 by himself. Not much off from Chandler's 8/9.

Przybilla is adding another 6/8. In addition, they provide stouter interior defense than Chandler, IMO.

I'd much rather have Oden/Przybilla than Chandler/Ely/Armstrong.

 

[mikeg]

i agree with your overall sentiment HCP, and i think that it's a small minority here that have the mood swings or aconsistently negative vibe.

but for me, i think it's clear that this team is probably not playing up to its potential. or even worse, maybe it is. i know we are young, but almost every star/very good player in the NBA was a star/very good by their 2rd year. roy obviously is a star, but i don't expect LMA, blake, joel, travis, martell, frye, or sergio to be getting any better. they've had enough time to show what they can do. and this is it. and that's the majority of our rotation. what you see is what you will be getting. so we need to ask ourselves, can this team get it done eventually? if you are one of those that believes the answer is "no" unless changes are made, you'll probably making some frustrated posts after a loss. doesn't mean you are a bad fan, though.

 

[DaRizzle]

That was the major one? Oden is getting 8/7 by himself. Not much off from Chandler's 8/9.

Przybilla is adding another 6/8. In addition, they provide stouter interior defense than Chandler, IMO.

I'd much rather have Oden/Przybilla than Chandler/Ely/Armstrong.

ok...maybe not the biggest but the first one I saw

 

[Rodolfo]

The best way to combat the negativity on here is to ignore it...who's with me?

 

[THE HCP]

I'm down!

 

[BrianFromWA]

uh, no...believe it or not joel and oden are 2 different people. Chandler got those stats by himself and then ANOTHER player came in and added even more...that entire post is screaming blind homerism but i dont feel like dissecting the entire thing but this was a major one

Please DaRizzle...I would expect more from you than to blow something off as blind homerism instead of being lazy and condescending.

There were 3 players that played any time at all at C last year.
Tyson Chandler: 35mpg, 11.8 ppg, 11.7 rpg
Melvin Ely: 12mpg, 3.9ppg, 2.8 rpg (in both PF and C)
Hilton Armstrong: 15mpg, 4.6 ppg, 2.9 rpg

Totals: (b/c I don't want to have you call me out for blind homerism for not dissecting which roles were the "C" roles, I'm "averaging" Ely and Armstrongs minutes, since they're about the same at C. I'm assuming the extra 13mpg were split between a hybrid of both that got 4.3 ppg and 2.9 rpg in those 13 min)

48mpg, 16.1 ppg, 14.6 rpg.

Now let's look at our boys, shall we? Without the glare of blind homerism, here's what ESPN sees:

Joel: 23 mpg, 6.3 ppg. 8.2 rpg.
Greg: 22mpg, 7.6ppg. 7.2 rpg.

Total: 45mpg, 13.9ppg, 15.4 rpg. I won't even upscale it, I'll just leave it at 45 min.

So I can't use Joel and Greg to approximate what NO got from it's center core? I'm disappointed.

 

[BrianFromWA]

i agree with your overall sentiment HCP, and i think that it's a small minority here that have the mood swings or aconsistently negative vibe.

but for me, i think it's clear that this team is probably not playing up to its potential. or even worse, maybe it is. i know we are young, but almost every star/very good player in the NBA was a star/very good by their 2rd year. roy obviously is a star, but i don't expect LMA, blake, joel, travis, martell, frye, or sergio to be getting any better. they've had enough time to show what they can do. and this is it. and that's the majority of our rotation. what you see is what you will be getting. so we need to ask ourselves, can this team get it done eventually? if you are one of those that believes the answer is "no" unless changes are made, you'll probably making some frustrated posts after a loss. doesn't mean you are a bad fan, though.

The ones I'd disagree with are Webster and Sergio. Webster is in roughly the same position as Travis was coming to our team, except he got integrated with the starters over the last 2 years while Outlaw was given the bench role. But most seem to forget that Outlaw's big "leap" was between years 4 and 5. Webster is in his 3-to-4 year right now. I still think he's young enough and talented enough to still be a quite good player. Do I think "All-Star"? I don't think so. But look at the mold of player Nate and KP are trying to turn him into: How many of the Raja Bell/Bruce Bowen/Ime Udoka/Shane Battier crowd were starting in the NBA at 21 and 22? Battier was the most accomplished after Duke, and he was the same age as a rookie that Webster is right now. They seemed to develop ok.

Sergio's more of an enigma for me, but I'm not of the opinion that you give up on a 21y/o PG with an elite skill. You can bring up his "horrible" shooting and "awful" defense, but both have improved over the last year, and he's shown the effort to work to improve it. I'm not advocating giving him the keys to the offense for 35 mpg, but I don't think he's stagnated yet.

 

[Rodolfo]

You best RECOGNIZE!

 

[THE HCP]

You best RECOGNIZE!

Only you and I truly understand the beauty of this photo! I actually cried when I first saw this! Well done!