OT What have we learned... What can we learn?

[Strenuus]

I say "we" but I mean individually. What have we learned within ourselves about maybe our subconcious bias, unintended marginalization, etc.

For me, I remember as early as 4 or 5 years ago I would say "why dont we say all lives matter?" I now understand why that is not good to say. While all lives do indeed matter, there is systemic racism going on in this country that needs to be brought to light, and by saying that it minimizes that effort. And for that, I apologize to anyone who heard me say that and felt minimized or not heard. I have learned.

Another one that i use to say was "i dont see color" i was educated on why this was seen as awful. Its like youre making them invisible, and i feel rather guilty ever uttering that phrase and again apologize to anyone who felt unheard, unappreciated, or stifled by that language. I have learned.

This is not a thread for slights or jokes. This is a thread to come together and educate or you yourself can tell us how you got educated. We are learning. I myself want to be an ally to all those who feel unheard. To do that we must be educated.

How have you learned? What has changed for you? What is something we can learn? Lets keep it civil.

 

[Natebishop3]

I say "we" but I mean individually. What have we learned within ourselves about maybe our subconcious bias, unintended marginalization, etc.

For me, I remember as early as 4 or 5 years ago I would say "why dont we say all lives matter?" I now understand why that is not good to say. While all lives do indeed matter, there is systemic racism going on in this country that needs to be brought to light, and by saying that it minimizes that effort. And for that, I apologize to anyone who heard me say that and felt minimized or not heard. I have learned.

Another one that i use to say was "i dont see color" i was educated on why this was seen as awful. Its like youre making them invisible, and i feel rather guilty ever uttering that phrase and again apologize to anyone who felt unheard, unappreciated, or stifled by that language. I have learned.

This is not a thread for slights or jokes. This is a thread to come together and educate or you yourself can tell us how you got educated. We are learning. I myself want to be an ally to all those who feel unheard. To do that we must be educated.

How have you learned? What has changed for you? What is something we can learn? Lets keep it civil.

I think I can agree with the first one. I used to be like you but I think I finally understand the statement.

The second one, I don't know..... I still think the end game should be trying to view everyone as the same. Not highlighting any physical characteristics.

I think I have learned that no matter how much protesting, police won't change. It's so much more ingrained into their culture and their training than any amount of protesting will remove. It's like these dudes don't understand that they're being recorded.... or they don't care. If they don't care, that's a massive issue. But at the same time, I don't think tearing down the police will solve it either. I think we need to change how we select candidates for law enforcement and I think we need to completely change their training regimen.

I watched the LA 92 documentary about the Rodney King riots, and it's amazing how nothing has changed. Cops getting caught on video and simply not caring. At least now they're being punished for it. Those four assholes got off Scott Free. But the thing that bothers me is that people are still taking out their rage on the wrong people. What the hell does burning down a bunch of black owned businesses solve? It didn't solve anything in 92 and it isn't solving anything now.

I think people still haven't learned how to actually solve the problem. That's what we NEED to learn.

 

[Chris Craig]

It is easy to say we need to see everyone the same. The human race vs white, African American, latino, etc. But, we are in a way beyond just singing kumbaya and everyone being seen the same and it being all good.

African Americans among other minorities have suffered greatly at the hands our dirty history and our present. We have to acknowledge what they have been through. The pain they have been caused.

We as white people have to be willing to listen and to admit we wronged them. Admit to what those who came before us did, and some among us still do. We have to speak up. It should have never and can no longer be acceptable. We have to act.

 

[Strenuus]

I think I can agree with the first one. I used to be like you but I think I finally understand the statement.

The second one, I don't know..... I still think the end game should be trying to view everyone as the same. Not highlighting any physical characteristics.

I think I have learned that no matter how much protesting, police won't change. It's so much more ingrained into their culture and their training than any amount of protesting will remove. It's like these dudes don't understand that they're being recorded.... or they don't care. If they don't care, that's a massive issue. But at the same time, I don't think tearing down the police will solve it either. I think we need to change how we select candidates for law enforcement and I think we need to completely change their training regimen.

I watched the LA 92 documentary about the Rodney King riots, and it's amazing how nothing has changed. Cops getting caught on video and simply not caring. At least now they're being punished for it. Those four assholes got off Scott Free. But the thing that bothers me is that people are still taking out their rage on the wrong people. What the hell does burning down a bunch of black owned businesses solve? It didn't solve anything in 92 and it isn't solving anything now.

I think people still haven't learned how to actually solve the problem. That's what we NEED to learn.

I agree with you on all of that. A complete overhaul in systemic teachings and trainings, more stringent hiring requirements, etc.

To answer the "i dont know" on "i dont see color" may i offer this thought? Yes, people should be seen as they are, but to say "i dont see color" negates their challenges and almost pushes them aside. Almost saying "theres really no problems." It may not be what we intended to portray, and mean something else... But the fact is that the way it is recieved is vastly different and can be painful for them

I think that made sense. I tried to elaborate.

 

[Chris Craig]

I agree with you on all of that. A complete overhaul in systemic teachings and trainings, more stringent hiring requirements, etc.

To answer the "i dont know" on "i dont see color" may i offer this thought? Yes, people should be seen as they are, but to say "i dont see color" negates their challenges and almost pushes them aside. Almost saying "theres really no problems." It may not be what we intended to portray, and mean something else... But the fact is that the way it is recieved is vastly different and can be painful for them

I think that made sense. I tried to elaborate.

Yeah I agree, when we (white people say) things like, "I don't see color," "I have friends who are black," "All lives matter", we negate what African Americans have been through, what has been done to them, the hate and the suffering. By saying those things we throw the carpet over the mess a failed system proliferated by white men has made.

I understand the instinct to jump to defense. But, instead we have to learn instead to listen and acknowledge. Because even if we are not racist we have benefited from a system that is.

 

[Natebishop3]

I agree with you on all of that. A complete overhaul in systemic teachings and trainings, more stringent hiring requirements, etc.

To answer the "i dont know" on "i dont see color" may i offer this thought? Yes, people should be seen as they are, but to say "i dont see color" negates their challenges and almost pushes them aside. Almost saying "theres really no problems." It may not be what we intended to portray, and mean something else... But the fact is that the way it is recieved is vastly different and can be painful for them

I think that made sense. I tried to elaborate.

Yeah, I guess I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, I try to treat everyone exactly the same. I think that's how I would interpret it if you said "I don't see color."

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah I agree, when we (white people say) things like, "I don't see color," "I have friends who are black," "All lives matter", we negate what African Americans have been through, what has been done to them, the hate and the suffering. By saying those things we throw the carpet over the mess a failed system proliferated by white men has made.

I understand the instinct to jump to defense. But, instead we have to learn instead to listen and acknowledge. Because even if we are not racist we have benefited from a system that is.

I guess I can understand this to a point because when I was hanging out with Travis Outlaw, sometimes I felt like our lives growing up where so vastly different. We could talk about music/video games/basketball but I grew up so much differently than he did. He was my friend but at times it felt like such a huge divide.

 

[Strenuus]

Yeah, I guess I understand what you're saying. But at the same time, I try to treat everyone exactly the same. I think that's how I would interpret it if you said "I don't see color."

I can see how YOU would interpret that, but im more concerned about how THEY interpret it. And its vastly different than how we view it. Thats what i had to learn, and i did learn.

 

[Road Ratt]

What we can learn is that our unintentional biases, are intentionally fed to us daily by the media. And they have been for ages. We are fed perceptions that stick. Whether we like it or not, propaganda works, and they have been using it against us since before we were all born. So don't beat yourselves up if it took awhile to "swallow the red pill". The world is a maze of misperceptions, pulled over our eyes. From racial to political, they have it covered with bullshit.

More on topic:

This video shows how people of color are kept out of business opportunities, with help of our own government. Talk about systemic racism.



Edit: John Boehner is a now a drug king, lol.

 

[Natebishop3]

I can see how YOU would interpret that, but im more concerned about how THEY interpret it. And its vastly different than how we view it. Thats what i had to learn, and i did learn.

The only thing I'll add to this is that I have been reading a lot of different viewpoints of black people since this whole thing started, and it has been very interesting to see the stark contrast in how some black people view the protests. One guy was thanking people for standing up for him because he felt like he couldn't do it. Another guy supported the protests but also at the same time felt like he didn't like that some white people were essentially telling him how to be upset. Basically what I have learned from that is that not all black people feel the same way (pretty damn obvious, right?) but what I'm getting at is that depending on the black person, they probably have different opinions on "I don't see color."

 

[Strenuus]

The only thing I'll add to this is that I have been reading a lot of different viewpoints of black people since this whole thing started, and it has been very interesting to see the stark contrast in how some black people view the protests. One guy was thanking people for standing up for him because he felt like he couldn't do it. Another guy supported the protests but also at the same time felt like he didn't like that some white people were essentially telling him how to be upset. Basically what I have learned from that is that not all black people feel the same way (pretty damn obvious, right?) but what I'm getting at is that depending on the black person, they probably have different opinions on "I don't see color."

Thats a fair vantage point. I can understand that.

I'll just error on the side of caution.. Seems to work best in this kind of thing.

 

[Natebishop3]

Thats a fair vantage point. I can understand that.

I'll just error on the side of caution.. Seems to work best in this kind of thing.

It's like asking a fat chick when the baby is due. She could be pregnant..... or she might not

 

[Lanny]

I say "we" but I mean individually. What have we learned within ourselves about maybe our subconcious bias, unintended marginalization, etc.

For me, I remember as early as 4 or 5 years ago I would say "why dont we say all lives matter?" I now understand why that is not good to say. While all lives do indeed matter, there is systemic racism going on in this country that needs to be brought to light, and by saying that it minimizes that effort. And for that, I apologize to anyone who heard me say that and felt minimized or not heard. I have learned.

Another one that i use to say was "i dont see color" i was educated on why this was seen as awful. Its like youre making them invisible, and i feel rather guilty ever uttering that phrase and again apologize to anyone who felt unheard, unappreciated, or stifled by that language. I have learned.

This is not a thread for slights or jokes. This is a thread to come together and educate or you yourself can tell us how you got educated. We are learning. I myself want to be an ally to all those who feel unheard. To do that we must be educated.

How have you learned? What has changed for you? What is something we can learn? Lets keep it civil.

I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know. It just placed the issue that I've always considered to be the most important issue this country faces, back in front of my face.
Black Lives Matter has always meant Black Lives Also Matter. There's never been any intent that other lives don't matter, it's just saying that the lives that don't seem to matter as much as the others is Black Lives.