What Portland SHOULD have done.

[Propagandist]

How about reposting that comparing them at the same ages?

Here, I will help you out:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Kelly Oubre Jr.&player_id1_select=Kelly Oubre Jr.&player_id1=oubreke01&y1=2018&player_id2_hint=Al-Farouq Aminu&player_id2_select=Al-Farouq Aminu&player_id2=aminual01&y2=2013

Hmmm. Similar defensive numbers. Oubre better at 3pt%, points scored, turnovers...

Man, this age comp thing got under my skin. It's not even pertinent.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

So, at 24 I’m taking Simons or Musa.
Next, I’m taking Khyri if I selected Musa. If I selected Simons, I’m taking Bonga or Trent Jr.

I'm really disappointed that Orlando didn't take Bonga at 35. I would've loved to see their Bonga/Bamba/Biyombo front-court.

 

[Reep]

Oubre is fine, but he is most definitely not an improvement over Chief, so why?

I think that is debatable. I'm not going to argue who is the better defender right now, because that is obviously Chief. But, I think the window for Dame (realistically given Nurkic, Collins, etc.) truly starts after next season. After next season I expect Collins to be up and running well, Nurkic to be a beast or be gone, and Oubre would fit nicely in that window.

What does Oubre have that Chief/Harkless does not? Better handles, in two years similar defensive ability. Oubre is just a more well rounded SF. You feed him the ball spotting up for three and he can either rise or go in for the monster dunk (around obstacles). Right now neither Chief or Harkless (who I really like) can do that.

My preference would be for Harkless to step up, work on his handles and driving, and take over the SF spot. I think he has everything we need at that spot if he could handle and drive.

BUT (big BUT), I also think that Olshey has to prepare for a future where Dame/CJ never get over the top and in 2020 or so, the team decides it just isn't going to happen and it's time to rebuild on the fly. At that point in time I really like the possibilities of:

Simons, WBIV
Trent,
Oubre, Harkless
Collins, Biggie?
Nurkic,

And whoever we pick up along the way.

 

[BBert]

I'm really disappointed that Orlando didn't take Bonga at 35. I would've loved to see their Bonga/Bamba/Biyombo front-court.

That would have killed Mike Rice.

 

[Reep]

Man, this age comp thing got under my skin. It's not even pertinent.

Less so for next year, more so for every year after that.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

That would have killed Mike Rice.

I'd love to hear the Schonz do promos for that group though.

 

[Boob-No-More]

That would have killed Mike Rice.

But Schonz would have LOVED it.

BNM

 

[Propagandist]

Less so for next year, more so for every year after that.

Guess it depends on what you were trying to communicate by providing the comparison. Absent any commentary alongside the link, one can only assume the intent and respond accordingly.

My assumption is Damian's window and it should go without saying.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But Schonz would have LOVED it.

BNM

See--this guy gets it!!

 

[BBert]

I'd love to hear the Schonz do promos for that group though.

Or call the game:

"Biyombo! Bamba! Bonga!!"

 

[Reep]

My assumption is Damian's window and it should go without saying.

Yes, but Damian's window is more that just one year. Realistically it is the next 5-6 years. For the first year or two, the vets are more important. For the 3-4 years after that the new guys will be more important. Given the competition in the West right now, I would rather bank on the latter.

 

[RR7]

Why would we compare Oubre to Aminu anyways? I don't understand that comparison. Are we bringing in Oubre to start at the 4? Of course not. So why compare those 2?

 

[KeepOnRollin]

I think his point was that they both are projected as OK shooters who play D as opposed to Simons and Trent who are projected to be very good shooters but not great defenders. So maybe draft one excellent scorer and one 3 and D guy.

Bingo! But we will just see how it goes.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Why though? This is the problem with what's going on with the Blazers, I think. No plan. Just drafting guys...or signing bad players or whatever. Remember Damian's career arc or whatever Olshey used to say? Oubre doesn't fit that, Collins doesn't fit that (but might!), Simons doesn't fit that, etc etc etc. Oubre is fine, but he is most definitely not an improvement over Chief, so why? Wait until we find someone that actually helps. Remember the other thing Olshey used to say about the needle moving? I mean, for fuck's sake, he's gaslighted the entire fanbase!

I think the point in getting some of these younger guys is to extend Dame's window. Older guys would make us better now, but not nearly good enough to dethrone GSW (or even HOU).

By getting guys who will be coming into their primes 3 years from now, we may be able to catch and pass the Warriors when they are on their way down. Three years from now, Dame will only be 30 and most likely still in his prime. It's not at all unusual for smallish scoring PGs to remain at, or near, peak performance well into their 30s.

BNM

 

[Propagandist]

I think that is debatable. I'm not going to argue who is the better defender right now, because that is obviously Chief. But, I think the window for Dame (realistically given Nurkic, Collins, etc.) truly starts after next season. After next season I expect Collins to be up and running well, Nurkic to be a beast or be gone, and Oubre would fit nicely in that window.

What does Oubre have that Chief/Harkless does not? Better handles, in two years similar defensive ability. Oubre is just a more well rounded SF. You feed him the ball spotting up for three and he can either rise or go in for the monster dunk (around obstacles). Right now neither Chief or Harkless (who I really like) can do that.

My preference would be for Harkless to step up, work on his handles and driving, and take over the SF spot. I think he has everything we need at that spot if he could handle and drive.

BUT (big BUT), I also think that Olshey has to prepare for a future where Dame/CJ never get over the top and in 2020 or so, the team decides it just isn't going to happen and it's time to rebuild on the fly. At that point in time I really like the possibilities of:

Simons, WBIV
Trent,
Oubre, Harkless
Collins, Biggie?
Nurkic,

And whoever we pick up along the way.

It is debatable, although Chief has gotten noticeably better each season. And I do like Oubre. If we start the window next season, I could agree. The worry would be the gamble. Oubre hasn't done much, isn't familiar with the system, just isn't a big enough upgrade to warrant an upgrade.

We have the same preference, but Moe is really hard to read...

No comment on that "lineup."

 

[Pinwheel1]

Or how about drafting 3&D guys to surround your two excellent scorers... and use your mle to get a proven bench scorer.

Or take the BPA. The player you think has the best potential to eventually be really good. Don't worry about duplicating a position if you see potential in a very young player, because team make up can change in a hurry. I think this is what Neil did. I think they (Dame included) in Simons, then they called Pitino, who really did not have any incentive to sell him up since he never coached him. They brought him back and drafted him.

I also think in their minds Trent can be a 3 and D guy much like Wes was. But I agree use your MLE for a proven bench scorer.

 

[Boob-No-More]

My assumption is Damian's window and it should go without saying.

When do you think Dame's window will start to close? During the 2021 playoffs he will be 30. Many small, scoring PGs remain at, or near, peak performance well into their 30s.

There really isn't anything we can do today to contend with GSW. Better to set our ultimate target 3 - 4 years down the road when they are in decline.

BNM

 

[Propagandist]

Why would we compare Oubre to Aminu anyways? I don't understand that comparison. Are we bringing in Oubre to start at the 4? Of course not. So why compare those 2?

Stotts like the Moe/Chief thing because they are virtually interchangeable on defense. And in that lineup it's Moe/Chief at the forward spots.

 

[Reep]

It is debatable, although Chief has gotten noticeably better each season. And I do like Oubre. If we start the window next season, I could agree. The worry would be the gamble. Oubre hasn't done much, isn't familiar with the system, just isn't a big enough upgrade to warrant an upgrade.

We have the same preference, but Moe is really hard to read...

No comment on that "lineup."

I guess maybe I have given up a bit of hope on Aminu ever really getting a handle and Harkless making the jump to the next level. Otherwise I would not be interested in Oubre. Last year should have been the year for one of them to really step up. We got killed in the playoffs because everyone knew that you could leave them alone at the 3pt line and swamp Dame, because neither Aminu or Harkless were going to beat you. And they were right.

My hope is that maybe Oubre or Trent could be more aggressive and make those teams pay big time by dropping 30+ on them if left open.

 

[Propagandist]

When do you think Dame's window will start to close? During the 2021 playoffs he will be 30. Many small, scoring PGs remain at, or near, peak performance well into their 30s.

There really isn't anything we can do today to contend with GSW. Better to set our ultimate target 3 - 4 years down the road when they are in decline.

BNM

Dominant Dame? 3-4 years.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Dominant Dame? 3-4 years.

So, guys like Oubre, Nurk, etc, will be entering their primes at exactly that time. Collins will be 24 and hopefully vastly improved. Even out pair of 19-yer olds will be 23 by then and hopefully solid rotation pieces.

Guys like Meyers and Turner, who are in the same age bracket as Dame, will be LONG gone.

BNM

 

[Propagandist]

I guess maybe I have given up a bit of hope on Aminu ever really getting a handle and Harkless making the jump to the next level. Otherwise I would not be interested in Oubre. Last year should have been the year for one of them to really step up. We got killed in the playoffs because everyone knew that you could leave them alone at the 3pt line and swamp Dame, because neither Aminu or Harkless were going to beat you. And they were right.

My hope is that maybe Oubre or Trent could be more aggressive and make those teams pay big time by dropping 30+ on them if left open.

Yeah, yeah, I get what you're saying, I just am surprised people think Oubre could be the guy. I'd get on board; there is for sure upside.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Guys the reality is you can't get a difference Maker at #24, you have to Pick the guy with the most Upside, and imo Simons is that guy

Huh? Draymond Green says Hi.......

 

[HailBlazers]

I also think in their minds Trent can be a 3 and D guy much like Wes was. But I agree use your MLE for a proven bench scorer.

Watching highlights his three point shot reminds me of Klay.

 

[Propagandist]

So, guys like Oubre, Nurk, etc, will be entering their primes at exactly that time. Collins will be 24 and hopefully vastly improved. Even out pair of 19-yer olds will be 23 by then and hopefully solid rotation pieces.

Guys like Meyers and Turner, who are in the same age bracket as Dame, will be LONG gone.

BNM

It's just crazy Olshey has been the GM since 2012! So we've allotted 10 effing years to let him shape this team? That's like a 5th of the team's entire existence! AND that's assuming everything falls into place. I don't know, dudes, I just don't know...

 

[Reep]

DRAFT GRADES: I always love how media types with very little knowledge of a teams players and very little exposure to workouts, believe they are qualified in any way to grade a team's draft picks before any of those players have even stepped on an NBA court.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

I think the point in getting some of these younger guys is to extend Dame's window. Older guys would make us better now, but not nearly good enough to dethrone GSW (or even HOU).

By getting guys who will be coming into their primes 3 years from now, we may be able to catch and pass the Warriors when they are on their way down. Three years from now, Dame will only be 30 and most likely still in his prime. It's not at all unusual for smallish scoring PGs to remain at, or near, peak performance well into their 30s.

BNM

That's amazingly optimistic. While really interesting, I look at it another way.

We have a LOT of good players. Aminu? good player. Harkless? good player. Nurk? good player. To me, this makes us deep, but not that good. We need another STUD. Hopefully, Nurk becomes that. Hopefully, we trade for another STUD.

So, what we're doing is just not going status quo and drafting another "good player". We're drafting another player who could be great.

 

[Reep]

Huh? Draymond Green says Hi.......

And Terry Porter is scowling.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

It's just crazy Olshey has been the GM since 2012! So we've allotted 10 effing years to let him shape this team? That's like a 5th of the team's entire existence! AND that's assuming everything falls into place. I don't know, dudes, I just don't know...

What?
1) 2018 - 2012 = 6 != 10
2) How many teams do you think have won a championship since 1980 that were not a top 14 media market and didn't have LeBron James or Tim Duncan on it? Take a guess. It's ZERO. Olshey isn't perfect, but ultimately, he's not the problem.

 

[Propagandist]

What?
1) 2018 - 2012 = 6 != 10
2) How many teams do you think have won a championship since 1980 that were not a top 14 media market and didn't have LeBron James or Tim Duncan on it? Take a guess. It's ZERO. Olshey isn't perfect, but ultimately, he's not the problem.

Nah man, he said when Zach is 24. That'll be in 2022.