WHAT TO EXPECT FROM APPLE'S BIG EVENT ON SEPTEMBER 9TH

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EL PRESIDENTE said:
Don't delude yourself that this is any more secure than credit card. The difference is, if they are able to hack into the system, instead of one card they can get them all. I mean, this will be useful and all eventually probably. Its been around for a while with google wallet. We'll see if it actually gets used or not. Right now its fairly limited to certain retailers and you really can't do this at a restaurant either I believe.
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I have worked for 10 years in electronic finance, assuming that the implementation is right - this is an order of magnitude more secure than the current system.
 
andalusian said:
I have worked for 10 years in electronic finance, assuming that the implementation is right - this is an order of magnitude more secure than the current system.
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How much more secure is it than putting a chip on a card?

And like I said, if there's a way for someone to hack into it then they have access to everything.

And its not even the security that's that big of a deal, its the implementation to see if it sticks. If its not standard on every terminal or vendor, then its essentially useless as a wallet replacement.
 
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EL PRESIDENTE said:
That's not what I asked about.
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The concept of the question is the same. As I said, many believed the iPod would fail because it would be more of a hassle to implement. As apple started the cycle, they made new developments to make it easier for the consumer to use.

The same will apply with iPay. It may not seem like a great innovation now, but as the development team works on it, it will be something we won't be without in a few years.

We are looking at past history. You brought up passport, but failed to mention all the other programs they have been extremely successful with.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
How much more secure is it than putting a chip on a card?

And like I said, if there's a way for someone to hack into it then they have access to everything.

And its not even the security that's that big of a deal, its the implementation to see if it sticks. If its not standard on every terminal or vendor, then its essentially useless as a wallet replacement.
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Easy... The card has your credit card information.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
So basically, no.

Passbook wasn't meant for mobile payments, it was a place to store plane boarding passes, movie tickets, etc.
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Passport was meant to serve as a portal for life. They pushed it out to get the ball rolling. The more they design things to give incentive for the user to use it, the more successful it becomes.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
How much more secure is it than putting a chip on a card?
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First of all, the US does not really have chip on a card - it is a swipe and sign method, but even if you compare EMV (chip on a card) to tokenization there are security advantages to tokenization

You can look at http://www.computerworld.com/articl...-standard-to-secure-credit-card-payments.html for a simple basics explanation.

But, to put it in context, the moment you decouple the encryption and decryption of the data between the collection and processing areas - you reduce the risk that it will be compromised, and by being able to have dedicated decryption at the processing site - you can use asymmetric encryption (private/public keys) with longer keys - to make it much harder to crack.

At the end of the day, people will design security systems and other people will find ways to attack them, but a tokenization based solution makes it much harder to attack (not that I claim it will be future proof) - you just reduce the number of weak spots and concentrate more on the sensitive areas to offer better security there.

And like I said, if there's a way for someone to hack into it then they have access to everything.
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The place where this happens is at the processing side of the payment - which already has all that info right now - so we do not increase the risk there, all we do is reduce the risk in the less secure places (merchants) and in transmission between the merchants to the processor.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Wait, so basically this is the same technology as Google Wallet? Its just Apple's version to connect it to your Icloud account?

https://www.google.com/wallet/shop-in-stores/
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As I already said... The iPod wasn't even the first MP3 player, yet it became the world leader of MP3 players. The big difference between the two companies is how apple markets and brings everyone together.
 
Minstrel said:
Yeah, the Apple Pay thing sounds cool, but I'm not sure that getting out your phone and swiping your fingerprint will be so much faster than getting out your credit card and swiping it. Maybe slightly faster, but not enough to be revolutionary.

If I'm missing something important, please do explain.
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Credit card info can be spied on.

The NFC technology only exposes a token that can be used one time to hackers. By the time they see it, you've already used it :)
 
magnifier661 said:
The concept of the question is the same. As I said, many believed the iPod would fail because it would be more of a hassle to implement. As apple started the cycle, they made new developments to make it easier for the consumer to use.

The same will apply with iPay. It may not seem like a great innovation now, but as the development team works on it, it will be something we won't be without in a few years.

We are looking at past history. You brought up passport, but failed to mention all the other programs they have been extremely successful with.
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That's a lot of presumption on your part.
 
We're also talking about a company with so much cash it offered to buy every minute of advertising on hundreds of cable and local channels to be able to provide streaming of those programs.

They already have hundreds of millions (500M!) of users and their credit cards in their database, all ready to go with Apple Pay.
 
Denny Crane said:
We're also talking about a company with so much cash it offered to buy every minute of advertising on hundreds of cable and local channels to be able to provide streaming of those programs.

They already have hundreds of millions (500M!) of users and their credit cards in their database, all ready to go with Apple Pay.
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What's the market share of apple mobile devices to other ones?
 
Denny Crane said:
Apple has already cut the right deals with the big players. Like they did with iTunes to be the first legit mp3 service.
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I understand the love for Apple, but y'all disagree that there's quite a bit of assumption in this statement?

it will be something we won't be without in a few years.
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Bob Dobalina said:
I understand the love for Apple, but y'all disagree that there's quite a bit of assumption in this statement?
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There's some risk, sure, but I'd bet on Apple making it work. Their attention to detail is superb in most things. I expect it to work out for Apple Pay.
 
Bob Dobalina said:
I understand the love for Apple, but y'all disagree that there's quite a bit of assumption in this statement?
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I do not love Apple (respect a lot of what they do however) - but this thing will fly because the big financial backing it has, Visa, Mastercard, Amex, Discover, JCB, UnionPay and Europay are the ones behind the tokenization standard and they are pushing it. Combine this with Apple's big consumer footprint and it will fly.

It is really not an Apple thing per se, Google Wallet and every other money processing service will support it as well - all the processing giants will require it sooner or later - it is just that Apple timed their introduction perfectly to 6 months or so after the standard came out.

http://www.emvco.com/specifications.aspx?id=263
 
It doesn't really matter if the financial institutions are backing it, it matters if people will actually bother to learn how to use it. I mean 2 years ago those stupid ass QR codes were everywhere too, people were just too lazy to scan them for the most part. Same with augmented reality.

I'd probably use at a gas station though, although they usually don't want you to use phones near the pump anyway.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
It doesn't really matter if the financial institutions are backing it, it matters if people will actually bother to learn how to use it. I mean 2 years ago those stupid ass QR codes were everywhere too, people were just too lazy to scan them for the most part. Same with augmented reality.

I'd probably use at a gas station though, although they usually don't want you to use phones near the pump anyway.
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With financial institutions having to cover fraud and spending as much money as they do detecting it - it is just a question of time until they phase out the old kinds of credit cards. Sooner or later the old type scanners will just be phased out and not accepted. In Europe there are plenty of places that cards without EMV are just not accepted anymore. The future is this kind of payment system, if it comes from Apple or someone else I am not certain - but I suspect that like everything else, the consumers will adapt when given no other choice.
 
andalusian said:
With financial institutions having to cover fraud and spending as much money as they do detecting it - it is just a question of time until they phase out the old kinds of credit cards. Sooner or later the old type scanners will just be phased out and not accepted. In Europe there are plenty of places that cards without EMV are just not accepted anymore. The future is this kind of payment system, if it comes from Apple or someone else I am not certain - but I suspect that like everything else, the consumers will adapt when given no other choice.
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Well, the current cards, yes. I do not believe that we will migrate to a system where you MUST use your phone or non-credit card to swipe away. Its too ubiquitous right now. Perhaps the cards themselves will evolve as there is a push for chip and pin type cards like in Europe, but I see this as a novelty replacement for the time being. In fact, I think we're more likely to see implanted chips in humans as payment before we have them just as an app on our phones.

I just don't think every consumer has the level of knowledge to actually use their phone to pay for something. It will be something that only technically inclined people would be able to do for the next few years. I mean, how many people out there use mobile boarding passes and mobile check in. Its not a high percentage and even when it is, some people aren't really quick at it versus a paper ticket.
 
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TRANSLATION: AMERICANS ARE TOO FUCKING STUPID TO FIGURE IT OUT AND ACTUALLY USE IT.
 
Denny Crane said:
Credit card info can be spied on.

The NFC technology only exposes a token that can be used one time to hackers. By the time they see it, you've already used it :)
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[video=youtube;ej9B99P3lq0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej9B99P3lq0[/video]
 
In related news, I tried to listen to U2's new album this morning. I can do it (it is not unlistenable) - but I am not excited about it.

Unfortunately, it is pretty close to my general feeling about Apple's new wares. They are technically capable and not stinkers, but not inspiring, unfortunately.
 
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