What words would you use to describe a man like this?

[The_Lillard_King]

There have been mistakes made with probation and peperwork, and escapes of very violent people, who once out have commited horrible crimes. No one that has been executed has ever come back to commit a horrible crime

I'm just trying to figure this out. First you say there is no reason to kill a person in cold blood. But then you say you believe in the death penalty. Didn't you just give a reason to kill someone in cold blood?

A father watches his daughter get raped and then proceeds to kill the rapist in the heat of the moment. Should dad get death penatly?

 

[Denny Crane]

The law is what the law is. If there's a death penalty, give it to him since the crime was heinous. If there's not a death penalty for the crime, throw the book at him.

I have no beef with capital punishment, but you can't make an ex post facto law to make his crime a capital punishment one and use it on him.

 

[Ed O]

Killing the person does not undo the damage that has been done.

It's not about restitution. It's about justice.

I think there are times that society should show some understanding of the situations and not just an across the board you do this and we kill you. True life in prison protects society as much as killing him.

It also gives that person an opportunity to live. At some point people forfeit that right.

Ed O.

 

[Ed O]

The criminal law should reflect the will of the people AND people are emotional creatures? Ridiculous. The law is meant to be emotionless and objective, not subject to interpretation. Cost benefit analysis whether to execute people? You're going down a slippery slope here where you end in a society where morals and thoughts become crimes.

I don't know where you get your legal theory from. Or, to be honest, whether you're bothering to read my posts because you keep confusing the different bullets in lists.

Emotionless and objective is fine. I'm all for that when it comes to applying the law.

How does society MAKE laws without emotion and purely objectively, but without applying cost-benefit analysis? Do we roll dice to figure out what the law should be?

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I don't know where you get your legal theory from. Or, to be honest, whether you're bothering to read my posts because you keep confusing the different bullets in lists.

Emotionless and objective is fine. I'm all for that when it comes to applying the law.

How does society MAKE laws without emotion and purely objectively, but without applying cost-benefit analysis? Do we roll dice to figure out what the law should be?

Ed O.

Emotions change from day to day. Its very dangerous to base the formation law on human emotions because what's a law one day, may not be the next and so forth and so on. Its even more dangerous to make emotion part of the sentencing process.

Two crimes will then be judged and punished differently based on the emotional aspect of the crime, which is wrong.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

It's not about restitution. It's about justice.



It also gives that person an opportunity to live. At some point people forfeit that right.

Ed O.

I agreet that at some point people forfeit that right. The questions is at what point?

I disagree with you in that I don't think it should be a simple you do this crime you die. I would prefer a system that looks at each individual case and the system making a deep and through analysis before making that kind of decision.

 

[Denny Crane]

At what point? When the law says the penalty can be death, and when a prosecutor convinces a grand jury to indict, and when a prosecutor convinces a 12 person jury by unanimous vote that the person is guilty.

And yeah, emotion or just about any other thing that can go on in a court to sway the jury is in play.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

The Death Penalty should be used only to punish crimes in which another person loses their life. The only time you forfeit the right to life is when you are knowingly and willingly (that would exclude the mentally ill as they do not have the capacity to make those decisions) taking the lives of others. Rape is not a capital crime.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

At what point? When the law says the penalty can be death, and when a prosecutor convinces a grand jury to indict, and when a prosecutor convinces a 12 person jury by unanimous vote that the person is guilty.

And yeah, emotion or just about any other thing that can go on in a court to sway the jury is in play.

In Oregon, you have to convince a jury not only are they guilty but also they deserve the death penalty.

 

[Ed O]

Emotions change from day to day. Its very dangerous to base the formation law on human emotions because what's a law one day, may not be the next and so forth and so on. Its even more dangerous to make emotion part of the sentencing process.

Two crimes will then be judged and punished differently based on the emotional aspect of the crime, which is wrong.

Be honest: are you reading my posts?

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

and for the record, I am against Sex Offender registration. I believe it is probably an easier life within prison than to live in society as a sex offender. If they're that bad, just lock them up longer instead of leaving them open for burning at the stake by the witch-hunters.

http://www.economist.com/node/14164614?story_id=14164614

 

[Ed O]

I agreet that at some point people forfeit that right. The questions is at what point?

We agree on both of those things.

I disagree with you in that I don't think it should be a simple you do this crime you die. I would prefer a system that looks at each individual case and the system making a deep and through analysis before making that kind of decision.

That's a fair perspective. I would rather have set rules that take individual biases out of the equation as much as possible. (Which is why I'm confused by El Presidente's responses to my posts.)

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Be honest: are you reading my posts?

Ed O.

yes. at least the short ones.

 

[Ed O]

and for the record, I am against Sex Offender registration. I believe it is probably an easier life within prison than to live in society as a sex offender. If they're that bad, just lock them up longer instead of leaving them open for burning at the stake by the witch-hunters.

Why should the justice system be about making life easier for sex offenders?

Ed O.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Why should the justice system be about making life easier for sex offenders?

Ed O.

Its just selectively enforced only for sex offenders and no one else. Why not register every felon then? I'd sure like to know if my neighbor is a thief, so if anything is missing I can just call the cops to search his house.

The purpose of the justice system is not to harass people for the rest of their lives, to dictate where they can and can't live and to receive death threats.

 

[Denny Crane]

In Oregon, you have to convince a jury not only are they guilty but also they deserve the death penalty.

Great! You just answered your own question ("at what point...")

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Great! You just answered your own question ("at what point...")

The question was more of a "what point should that be", not what is that point now. if we were just going to go by the legal system (which can be a flawed system), it would be no fun talking about this stuff.

For instance, I'm actually for the death penalty for some rape cases . . . but I understand the law in Oregon doesn't allow that and it's not a possiblity now.

Should it be a possibilty?

 

[mook]

I'm tired and bored of debating capital punishment.

What I've been thinking more about lately is how the media has changed men in America because of the way stories like this get hyped.

If you travel to other countries, it's perfectly natural to rub a kid on the head even if you don't know him. I love wrestling with my two boys, but after they get a little older I guess that's over with. I don't think I'd even wrestle with my best friend's sons. No adult man dare be seen in public even close to a stranger's kid. I know a male librarian, and he says he's ridiculously cautious about never going anywhere even close to a kid if the room is empty.

If I saw a kid out crying in the street, I'd probably walk the other way because the last thing any adult male wants is to be seen anywhere near that. A hysterical parent or neighbor can destroy your career, family, everything.....

I realize there are shitty people out there like this guy, but it's sad that we all pretty much behave as though 99% of strangers are just like him.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I hope the customers who detained him beat the living shit out of him, too. I know I would have. What a heinous act. Hopefully the girl is so young that she won't remember it when she gets older.

I might have killed him on the spot.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

and for the record, I am against Sex Offender registration. I believe it is probably an easier life within prison than to live in society as a sex offender. If they're that bad, just lock them up longer instead of leaving them open for burning at the stake by the witch-hunters.

http://www.economist.com/node/14164614?story_id=14164614

Or we could just kill them.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Or we could just kill them.

yes. kill everybody. so easy!

This is California. They don't kill people. Not even cop killers.

 

[Rodolfo]

I'm tired and bored of debating capital punishment.

What I've been thinking more about lately is how the media has changed men in America because of the way stories like this get hyped.

If you travel to other countries, it's perfectly natural to rub a kid on the head even if you don't know him. I love wrestling with my two boys, but after they get a little older I guess that's over with. I don't think I'd even wrestle with my best friend's sons. No adult man dare be seen in public even close to a stranger's kid. I know a male librarian, and he says he's ridiculously cautious about never going anywhere even close to a kid if the room is empty.

If I saw a kid out crying in the street, I'd probably walk the other way because the last thing any adult male wants is to be seen anywhere near that. A hysterical parent or neighbor can destroy your career, family, everything.....

I realize there are shitty people out there like this guy, but it's sad that we all pretty much behave as though 99% of strangers are just like him.

Walking away from a crying child is a little over the top.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

kids suck. sometimes they're cute when they're very small but once they start shitting, smelling and crying...ugh. especially in public, like on a plane or something. worse crap ever!

 

[Mediocre Man]

yes. kill everybody. so easy!

This is California. They don't kill people. Not even cop killers.

This is Texas. They rush people to the electric chair. Especially guys like this piece of shit.

 

[oldguy]

I think the punishment should be expanded to include crimes other than killing.

Is it better to be shot and killed or kidnapped, raped and tortured for months? I don't know. I don't know if ANYONE can know.

But I believe that if someone kidnaps, rapes and tortures someone for months, they deserve to die for it.

Ed O.

I'm with you on this Ed O. I would add that someone that attempted murder on hundreds of civilians should be put down, too. I'm also with you that crazy doesn't matter when it comes to the death sentence. If you do a crime that heinous, you are a menace to society...sane or not. With the death penalty there are no repeat offenders.

Go Blazers

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

3 strikes and your dead?

x

 

[mook]

Walking away from a crying child is a little over the top.

Is it really? It just takes somebody a split second to see an adult male hovering over a crying kid who isn't his before the cops get called, a report gets written up, and you're spending the night in jail. And even if you're exonerated, you'll still have that stigma around you from everyone in the neighborhood.

If you are a 30 year old man and you are trying to help a seven year old kid you don't know crying alone on a sidewalk, you are probably in much greater danger than he is. If you don't realize that, you should.

 

[oldguy]

The guy was a diagnosed schizophrenic.

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2010/12/eugene_melendres_ramos_charged.php

So what? Now he can plead insanity and get committed instead of going to prison? With a little luck, after a few years of counseling, he can convince some dumb shit Californian psychiatrist that he's rehabilitated and, viola, he's doing your 2 year old daughter in the Safeway bakery. That don't work for me at all.

Go Blazers

 

[Minstrel]

Is it really? It just takes somebody a split second to see an adult male hovering over a crying kid who isn't his before the cops get called, a report gets written up, and you're spending the night in jail. And even if you're exonerated, you'll still have that stigma around you from everyone in the neighborhood.

If you are a 30 year old man and you are trying to help a seven year old kid you don't know crying alone on a sidewalk, you are in much greater danger than he is. If you don't realize that, you should.

I think that's absolutely true. I remember once long ago, when I was a teenager, my family and some family friends were waiting outside a restaurant for our name to be called. While my dad was talking to his friend, a small child from some other party ran over and began acting friendly to my dad. He just smiled down at the kid and then the kid ran off again. My dad remarked to his friend, "I wanted to pat him on the head, but these days you can't take the risk of touching kids that aren't yours."

That memory has always stuck with me, both as good sense and kind of a sad comment on the (perhaps justified) lack of trust in society.

 

[MARIS61]

yes. kill everybody. so easy!

This is California. They don't kill people. Not even cop killers.

Over 700 on death row in CA. At a cost of tens of billions $.

Want tax cuts? Stop supporting the worst people in the world.