What would it take for Neil to completely blow up the team?

[e_blazer]

Luxury tax.

Maybe I don't understand the CBA on this correctly, but it looks to me like cutting Skal saved $2.8M in luxury tax on his contract. Luxury tax is based on team salary on the last day of the regular season. If the Blazers only add a minimum vet, the impact of that on team salary, I believe, is only the pro-rated amount of the minimum for the remaining days of the regular season. The LT implications are not zero, but significantly less.

 

[e_blazer]

They're still in the tax so even if they signed someone like Kanter last year for $500,000 they'd pay $1 million in tax in addition to that.

Savings from the Skal trade were a little over $2 million.

Cost of a buyout player would be about $1.5 million.

They're being so cheap they're unwilling to explore options to help the team because of $1.5 million. This is why I'm so upset man.

The team salary implications of the buyout player are PRO-RATED, if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q28

If there's 10% of the season left when they sign the buyout player, that's only $150K added onto team salary that ends up getting taxed. If I'm not understanding it correctly, please explain.

 

[wizenheimer]

Maybe I don't understand the CBA on this correctly, but it looks to me like cutting Skal saved $2.8M in luxury tax on his contract. Luxury tax is based on team salary on the last day of the regular season. If the Blazers only add a minimum vet, the impact of that on team salary, I believe, is only the pro-rated amount of the minimum for the remaining days of the regular season. The LT implications are not zero, but significantly less.

it's a little complicated...if I'm figuring things kind of accurately:

* Blazer likely still owed Zach about 33-35% of his current salary of 2.338M. So say they started out by saving 800K

> Blazers are 4M above the line right now so they saved (1 X 1.5) + (1.33 X 1.75) in tax; so about 3.8M

> so then .800 + 3.8M = 4.6M in gross savings

* but, Portland reportedly sent 1.9M in cash so their net savings was 2.7M

so then, say the Blazers sign somebody for the rest of the season. Pro-rated minimum would be around 500K and the tax would be 750K

* that would mean their total savings would be around 2.7M - 1.25M = 1.45M.

that's nothing to sneeze at but 2.7 is a lot more than 1.45

If there's 10% of the season left when they sign the buyout player, that's only $150K added onto team salary that ends up getting taxed. If I'm not understanding it correctly, please explain.

pretty sure the deadline for adding any buy-out player is March 1, less than 3 weeks away, so they'd likely be paying a pro-rated amount of close to a third of a season

 

[CupWizier]

Olshey, Stotts, CJ, and Dame are all tied together. They all got extensions together. They all have a built in excuse this season. Dame has been the only one not actually believing that excuse.

But this roster isn't going anywhere. The easiest thing to change is the coach but the organization just made a statement that $2 million is more important than fielding the best possible team so why would they fire Stotts while owing him money still? Olshey and CJ are on the books longer so they're not going anywhere either.

Now they're stuck having to keep Whiteside too, which will be a disaster.

"Stuck'? It would have been a real slap in the face to Lillard and the rest of the team to move Whiteside (especially for the likely garbage offered) when we had nobody that can play center at this stage. We can still do a sign and trade possibly with Whiteside as well as re-sign him to a reasonable contract that can be mover at the deadline or in the off season if necessary. There is also the mle as well as the Bazemore TPE to acquire players. This team isn't near as hamstrung as you want to make others believe.

 

[illmatic99]

that's nothing to sneeze at but 2.7 is a lot more than 1.45

Not sure if you're being sarcastic.

 

[wizenheimer]

Not sure if you're being sarcastic.

would you like to have an extra 1.25 million right now?

 

[illmatic99]

would you like to have an extra 1.25 million right now?

I'm different from a billionaire owner, whose brother threw around that kinda cash multiple times a year in trades. Reality is, we have an owner now who apparently pinches pennies.

 

[tlongII]

A pending sale of the team.

 

[hoopsjock]

The team salary implications of the buyout player are PRO-RATED, if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q28

If there's 10% of the season left when they sign the buyout player, that's only $150K added onto team salary that ends up getting taxed. If I'm not understanding it correctly, please explain.

Kanter signed a pro-rated contract last year and it was for over $497K so I don't get where you are getting the $150K from? Marvin Williams and MKG just signed for more than that in their prorated deals.

 

[hoopsjock]

would you like to have an extra 1.25 million right now?

C'mon man, you can't compare the salary cap of an NBA team to one of our situations.

29 out of the 30 teams made money last year and all 30 teams increased in value as well.

This is the equivalent of would you care about losing a nickel in the wash machine.

 

[illmatic99]

Even with our reduced tax bill, our salary cap + tax for the year is about 144 million.

The added cost of signing a player now would be < 1% of that.

It's peanuts. Not signing a player (if we do basketball wise) for that financial saving is just bad business. Then again, Neil could be lying out of his ass as he has known to do. But he did throw Jody under the bus repeatedly in his interviews.

 

[e_blazer]

it's a little complicated...if I'm figuring things kind of accurately:

* Blazer likely still owed Zach about 33-35% of his current salary of 2.338M. So say they started out by saving 800K

> Blazers are 4M above the line right now so they saved (1 X 1.5) + (1.33 X 1.75) in tax; so about 3.8M

> so then .800 + 3.8M = 4.6M in gross savings

* but, Portland reportedly sent 1.9M in cash so their net savings was 2.7M

so then, say the Blazers sign somebody for the rest of the season. Pro-rated minimum would be around 500K and the tax would be 750K

* that would mean their total savings would be around 2.7M - 1.25M = 1.45M.

that's nothing to sneeze at but 2.7 is a lot more than 1.45



pretty sure the deadline for adding any buy-out player is March 1, less than 3 weeks away, so they'd likely be paying a pro-rated amount of close to a third of a season

That sounds pretty close to correct, except for the March 1 date. I believe that's the last date for a player to be WAIVED and still qualify for the playoffs. As I understand it after a quick search with my friends at Google, players are eligible to be on a team's playoff roster provided they were on the team for at least one regular season game, and were not on another NBA team's roster after March 1.

 

[hoopsjock]

Even with our reduced tax bill, our salary cap + tax for the year is about 144 million.

The added cost of signing a player now would be < 1% of that.

It's peanuts. Not signing a player (if we do basketball wise) for that financial saving is just bad business. Then again, Neil could be lying out of his ass as he has known to do. But he did throw Jody under the bus repeatedly in his interviews.

I know we've talked about this already but this is exactly why I don't believe that he was told to just cut "a little bit" of salary.

 

[wizenheimer]

I'm different from a billionaire owner, whose brother threw around that kinda cash multiple times a year in trades. Reality is, we have an owner now who apparently pinches pennies.

Jody Allen only has a fraction of the wealth that her brother had because of dedicated trusts, his will, and inheritance taxes

besides that, if she's worth something like 5-10B right now, burning thru 1.25M would be the equivalent of taking a 100 dollar bill out of your wallet and tearing it into little pieces. You'd need a good reason for it and adding maybe an extra win to an 8th seed team is not a good reason. I mean, right now would you pay 100 dollars for the Blazers to end up at 44 wins instead of 43, knowing there was no guarantee you'd even see that extra win?

 

[e_blazer]

Kanter signed a pro-rated contract last year and it was for over $497K so I don't get where you are getting the $150K from? Marvin Williams and MKG just signed for more than that in their prorated deals.

Depends on when the player signs. Kanter signed on Feb. 21st last year. There was about 1/3 of the season left. If Olshey signs someone in March, the LT implications are significantly less.

 

[hoopsjock]

That sounds pretty close to correct, except for the March 1 date. I believe that's the last date for a player to be WAIVED and still qualify for the playoffs. As I understand it after a quick search with my friends at Google, players are eligible to be on a team's playoff roster provided they were on the team for at least one regular season game, and were not on another NBA team's roster after March 1.

Yes, that would be correct. So they could sign Hoard or Brown or one of the China guys.

Did you listen to the video @illmatic99 posted though? They aren't signing someone no matter how you try to make the math look less significant.

 

[hoopsjock]

Depends on when the player signs. Kanter signed on Feb. 21st last year. There was about 1/3 of the season left. If Olshey signs someone in March, the LT implications are significantly less.

They didn't even sign someone to a 10-day or a non-guaranteed contract when there were games they literally had no center on the roster and played Anthony Tolliver as the back up center for an extended stretch. That would've been cheaper than what you are suggesting.

 

[e_blazer]

They didn't even sign someone to a 10-day or a non-guaranteed contract when there were games they literally had no center on the roster and played Anthony Tolliver as the back up center for an extended stretch. That would've been cheaper than what you are suggesting.

ALL I am trying to suggest is that things MAY change if the Blazers make the playoffs and Olshey sees a chance to add a good player at not too much cost. Adding a player late in the season would not add much LT.

 

[hoopsjock]

ALL I am trying to suggest is that things MAY change if the Blazers make the playoffs and Olshey sees a chance to add a good player at not too much cost. Adding a player late in the season would not add much LT.

You still haven't listened to the interview, huh? There is no chance of this happening unless they have more (knock on wood this doesn't happen) injuries that put them below the minimum active lineup requirements.

 

[e_blazer]

You still haven't listened to the interview, huh? There is no chance of this happening unless they have more (knock on wood this doesn't happen) injuries that put them below the minimum active lineup requirements.

I didn't see the link to the interview. When did he post it?

 

[hoopsjock]

I didn't see the link to the interview. When did he post it?

56 second mark
https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/video/olshey-we-have-team-were-gonna-compete

 

[PtldPlatypus]

 

[B-Roy]

We have some on the roster already. I'd be interested in converting Hoard's two way into a 2-3 year cheap deal. I think he has a real shot to be a role player in this league. Count it as basically using second round pick this year even though we don't have one.

 

[hoopsjock]

We have some on the roster already. I'd be interested in converting Hoard's two way into a 2-3 year cheap deal. I think he has a real shot to be a role player in this league. Count it as basically using second round pick this year even though we don't have one.

We do have a 2nd round pick this year.

Edit: It's currently pick 45.

 

[B-Roy]

We do have a 2nd round pick this year.

Edit: It's currently pick 45.

Sorry, I just assume we never have a second rounder because Neil slings them like crazy. Didn't we give up 4 in the Thomas Robinson deal? I never check because all the guys on our roster who were second round picks were either bought for cash or two future seconds.

 

[hoopsjock]

Sorry, I just assume we never have a second rounder because Neil slings them like crazy. Didn't we give up 4 in the Thomas Robinson deal? I never check because all the seconds we get are either bought for cash or two future seconds.

This one was the one traded for Harkless with 31-55 protection. There is no chance of getting into the top-5 records so it will be ours.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

The team salary implications of the buyout player are PRO-RATED, if I'm understanding this correctly:

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q28

If there's 10% of the season left when they sign the buyout player, that's only $150K added onto team salary that ends up getting taxed. If I'm not understanding it correctly, please explain.

I'm wondering if you watched the video yet? Asked about a buyout, Olshey doesn't just say "no"; he says NO, NO, NOOO!

 

[B-Roy]

This one was the one traded for Harkless with 31-55 protection. There is no chance of getting into the top-5 records so it will be ours.

Someone quoted me (was it you?) awhile back saying we never conveyed the pick we traded to Orlando in the Jake Layman deal. Did you get that pick confused with this one? Both were top 55 protected.

 

[hoopsjock]

Someone quoted me (was it you?) awhile back saying we never conveyed the pick we traded to Orlando in the Jake Layman deal. Did you get that pick confused with this one? Both were top 55 protected.

Portland traded their 2019 2nd to get the draft rights to Layman. It was conveyed last year and had no protections.

Edit: I do remember talking about this a couple weeks ago with someone but it was who I was talking with that was confused, not me.

 

[B-Roy]

This is completely unrelated to the topic at hand but I went back and looked at the picks we ended up trading for Thomas Robinson. Now, it's unlikely the picks would have been the same had we kept those picks but DAMN:

July 10, 2013: Traded by the Houston Rockets to the Portland Trail Blazers for Kostas Papanikolaou, Marko Todorović, a 2015 2nd round draft pick (Richaun Holmes was later selected) and a 2017 2nd round draft pick (Dillon Brooks was later selected).

Dillon Brooks and Richaun Holmes. Both solid/starter level players in this league.