What would it take to get Lowry?

[Natebishop3]

He's not shooting particularly well (as evidenced by his eFG%). He doesn't draw fouls, his A/T ratio is pretty anemic, his PER is a sub standard 10.5 and he doesn't appear to make his teammates appreciably better. But as you say, "he's fine."

He is in good health, so in that regard, he's fine.

 

[blue9]

He dribbles too much. I have no idea how you measure that, but god he dribbles a lot. He routinely dribbles until there's only 5-6 seconds left in the clock.

On the flip-side, he also shoots really early in the shot clock without even looking for a pass, or attempting to set up a play, and when there's 3 defenders waiting in the paint for the rebound.
But let's just remind ourselves of what it was like last year. Nolan Smith. There - now it feels pretty good to have Mo, huh?

 

[H.C.]

So much mo williams hate.

Look at who hes playing with on a consistant basis.
grabbing players that start the 2nd quarter.
Mo - guard
lillard - guard
wright - forward.
robinson - forward
freeland - forward/center

So defenses are going to key on lillard. all 5 guys will know where he is, especially when he has the ball.
Then you have wright. You take away his 3, and hes basically done. live with whatever else happens.
you cant rely on t-rob to give him the ball in a 1 on 1 situation. He'll go to that spin move and travel, draw an offensive foul.... Also t-rob doesn't set great screens. So pick & roll is sketchy.
Freeland is someone who plays off of other bigs. Doesn't set great screens. So pick & roll is sketchy.
so basically...
You have lillard and mo.
Until the 2nd unit bigs learn to set great screens to get people open. It wouldn't matter if you had nash/stockton/insert name here.
Not many assists to go around for people who cannot create their own shots.
back to defenses keying on lillard.

Edit - stop watching one player and watch the offense run. because then you'd see these things

(now him dribbling it up 1 on 5 i dislike)

 

[magnifier661]

So much mo williams hate.

Look at who hes playing with on a consistant basis.
grabbing players that start the 2nd quarter.
Mo - guard
lillard - guard
wright - forward.
robinson - forward
freeland - forward/center

So defenses are going to key on lillard. all 5 guys will know where he is, especially when he has the ball.
Then you have wright. You take away his 3, and hes basically done. live with whatever else happens.
you cant rely on t-rob to give him the ball in a 1 on 1 situation. He'll go to that spin move and travel, draw an offensive foul.... Also t-rob doesn't set great screens. So pick & roll is sketchy.
Freeland is someone who plays off of other bigs. Doesn't set great screens. So pick & roll is sketchy.
so basically...
You have lillard and mo.
Until the 2nd unit bigs learn to set great screens to get people open. It wouldn't matter if you had nash/stockton/insert name here.
Not many assists to go around for people who cannot create their own shots.
back to defenses keying on lillard.

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314POR2.HTM

That line-up is 12 total minutes out of our entire 614 total possible minutes (1.95%). So, no, that doesn't apply to your theory. We usually have two starters in the game at all times.

 

[Natebishop3]

On the flip-side, he also shoots really early in the shot clock without even looking for a pass, or attempting to set up a play, and when there's 3 defenders waiting in the paint for the rebound.
But let's just remind ourselves of what it was like last year. Nolan Smith. There - now it feels pretty good to have Mo, huh?

You can't have that thinking though. The team has a legitimately good starting five. We have the best record in the west right now. If a deal can be made that would solidify us as a contender, you have to do it. You can't stick with Mo because he's better than Nolan Smith. You could stick an empty chair out on the court and it would be better than Nolan Smith.

 

[H.C.]

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314POR2.HTM

That line-up is 12 total minutes out of our entire 614 total possible minutes (1.95%). So, no, that doesn't apply to your theory. We usually have two starters in the game at all times.

matthews cant get his own shot becides the stepback. works better playing off the ball. like he did in utah. like he does in portland.
Batum still canot consistantly get his own shot. gives the ball to bigs on Pick & Roll at their knees or takes a fadeaway from 5ft.
Do i need to continue to scout the whole team? i don't think so.

Edit - or can you see that setting picks for shooters is what gets people open. with t-rob and freeland. that's sketchy.

 

[magnifier661]

You can't have that thinking though. The team has a legitimately good starting five. We have the best record in the west right now. If a deal can be made that would solidify us as a contender, you have to do it. You can't stick with Mo because he's better than Nolan Smith. You could stick an empty chair out on the court and it would be better than Nolan Smith.

And…. When we had Nolan Smith, there was never talk with us making the playoffs. We are in a different model now.

 

[RR7]

http://www.82games.com/1314/1314POR2.HTM

That line-up is 12 total minutes out of our entire 614 total possible minutes (1.95%). So, no, that doesn't apply to your theory. We usually have two starters in the game at all times.

614 possible minutes is a bit off.

I'd like to see Williams rotated in differently. I'd love to see him out there more with Matthews and Batum, Matthews as a good shooter and kick option, and Batum as secondary ball handler. That being said, we're 22 games in. Would I trade him? Sure. I'd move anyone on the team for the sake of improvement. But I don't see him as the big issue of our bench.

 

[Natebishop3]

matthews cant get his own shot becides the stepback. works better playing off the ball. like he did in utah. like he does in portland.
Batum still canot consistantly get his own shot. gives the ball to bigs on Pick & Roll at their knees or takes a fadeaway from 5ft.
Do i need to continue to scout the whole team? i don't think so.

Edit - or can you see that setting picks for shooters is what gets people open. with t-rob and freeland. that's sketchy.

So what's your point? That Mo can get his own shot?

 

[magnifier661]

matthews cant get his own shot becides the stepback. works better playing off the ball. like he did in utah. like he does in portland.
Batum still canot consistantly get his own shot. gives the ball to bigs on Pick & Roll at their knees or takes a fadeaway from 5ft.
Do i need to continue to scout the whole team? i don't think so.

Um why do I get this response. I called out your "Mo has to play with Wright, Lillard, T. Rob and Freeland" as being the reason why he has to hog the ball and shoot poorly. That isn't the case, since that line-up plays 1.95% of total minutes

 

[magnifier661]

614 possible minutes is a bit off.

I'd like to see Williams rotated in differently. I'd love to see him out there more with Matthews and Batum, Matthews as a good shooter and kick option, and Batum as secondary ball handler. That being said, we're 22 games in. Would I trade him? Sure. I'd move anyone on the team for the sake of improvement. But I don't see him as the big issue of our bench.

Add up the minutes

 

[RR7]

Add up the minutes

we've played 22 games. 614/22= the new 28 minute games we've been playing?

 

[magnifier661]

we've played 22 games. 614/22= the new 28 minute games we've been playing?

I said add up the minutes on the 82games. I'm using that as reference.

 

[RR7]

I said add up the minutes on the 82games. I'm using that as reference.

was just saying 614 is off for total minutes. it's irrelevant. sorry for sidetracking.

 

[magnifier661]

was just saying 614 is off for total minutes. it's irrelevant. sorry for sidetracking.

Oh I misunderstood what you were saying. No need to apologize. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear with what model I was using.

 

[HailBlazers]

Doing fine based on what? He isn't dead?

He's shooting 41% from the field. That's horrible.

He's averaging over 2 turnovers per game in 25 minutes played. Just to give you a comparison, Lowry is averaging about the same amount of turnovers.... in 36 minutes per game.

He has a PER of 10.5

His ORtg is 96. Lowry's is 115.

He dribbles too much. I have no idea how you measure that, but god he dribbles a lot. He routinely dribbles until there's only 5-6 seconds left in the clock.

The guy has been a huge disappointment.

Based on 18-4.

He hasn't cost us any wins and for a few games he was the only Blazer who could score during droughts. Sure he's made many errors but none to the detriment of our record, and none that can't be corrected as the season progresses on. Therefore, he is doing fine.

 

[H.C.]

Um why do I get this response. I called out your "Mo has to play with Wright, Lillard, T. Rob and Freeland" as being the reason why he has to hog the ball and shoot poorly. That isn't the case, since that line-up plays 1.95% of total minutes

because you took that as literal. I could throw matthews/batum in the same lineup taking out wright or lillard. It has the same problems. Poor picks being set.
But I won't be replying to you anymore because it's not worth my time. Meaning you cant realize what a generalization of players is.
You may have called that out, but that wasn't my point AT ALL. But good try.

So what's your point? That Mo can get his own shot?

point is mo has no choice but to shoot a lot of times. With the offense being ran and no good picks being set. how exactly do you expect him to get people open?
Hes Not LBJ/CP3/Rondo.
Hes not making moves to find open shooters. He can get his own shot.

What did joel get credit for on the offensive end when he was here? (not counting the offensive boards)
The strong picks he set. which opened up shooters.
People may not like the names i'm going to list because they wern't huge hits with blazer fans.
Martell/Fernandez got most of their open looks from picks set by pryzbilla/bigs.
Setting a solid strong pick is a lost art. You cant have weak picks set, then expect not to throw up a wild shot.
Sorry if you don't agree. But I'm right.

 

[magnifier661]

because you took that as literal. I could throw matthews/batum in the same lineup taking out wright or lillard. It has the same problems. Poor picks being set.
But I won't be replying to you anymore because it's not worth my time. Meaning you cant realize what a generalization of players is.
You may have called that out, but that wasn't my point AT ALL. But good try.

Okay, so you are backpedaling? Gotcha!

Woe is me! This noob won't respond to me anymore! What will I do?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Based on 18-4.

He hasn't cost us any wins and for a few games he was the only Blazer who could score during droughts. Sure he's made many errors but none to the detriment of our record, and none that can't be corrected as the season progresses on. Therefore, he is doing fine.

Ah, but you see, eventually he will cost us some games and I wouldn't want to rely on him in the playoffs if he's playing this poorly.

 

[Natebishop3]

because you took that as literal. I could throw matthews/batum in the same lineup taking out wright or lillard. It has the same problems. Poor picks being set.
But I won't be replying to you anymore because it's not worth my time. Meaning you cant realize what a generalization of players is.
You may have called that out, but that wasn't my point AT ALL. But good try.



point is mo has no choice but to shoot a lot of times. With the offense being ran and no good picks being set. how exactly do you expect him to get people open?
Hes Not LBJ/CP3/Rondo.
Hes not making moves to find open shooters. He can get his own shot.

What did joel get credit for on the offensive end when he was here? (not counting the offensive boards)
The strong picks he set. which opened up shooters.
People may not like the names i'm going to list because they wern't huge hits with blazer fans.
Martell/Fernandez got most of their open looks from picks set by pryzbilla/bigs.
Setting a solid strong pick is a lost art. You cant have weak picks set, then expect not to throw up a wild shot.
Sorry if you don't agree. But I'm right.

So why do our starters get so many open looks, but the bench does not? There's no ball movement on the bench. It has nothing to do with picks. The starters move the ball. Sometimes too much. Ball movement and player movement lead to open shots, not just setting a good pick. The problem with Mo is that he stands at the top of the key and dribbles for 10-15 seconds. No player should hold onto the ball that long. Pass it off, keep it moving, and you WILL find an open man.

 

[tlongII]

Lowry is a starter. Mo is a backup.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Lowry is a starter. Mo is a backup.

Put Lowry in a "backup" role where he plays 30 minutes a night and does the distinction matter all that much?

 

[magnifier661]

Lowry is a starter. Mo is a backup.

Mo started for Utah last season. We was starting for most his career

 

[tlongII]

Put Lowry in a "backup" role where he plays 30 minutes a night and does the distinction matter all that much?

He wouldn't play 30 minutes a night here so that is not relevant.

 

[Natebishop3]

Lowry is a starter. Mo is a backup.

Mo Williams - career games started 478
Kyle Lowry - career games started 211

 

[tlongII]

Mo started for Utah last season. We was starting for most his career

Mo knows he's a backup now and he's fine with it. That knowledge makes a big difference.

 

[tlongII]

Hey, if I was able to trade Mo for Lowry straight up I would be fine with that. Won't happen though and giving up more would be stupid.

 

[Natebishop3]

Mo knows he's a backup now and he's fine with it. That knowledge makes a big difference.

Do you think Lowry wants to play for a lotto team? I would guess that he would rather play 25-30 minutes on one of the best teams in the league, rather than play 36 minutes on one of the worst. But if he doesn't, I doubt Neil would trade for him.

 

[magnifier661]

Hey, if I was able to trade Mo for Lowry straight up I would be fine with that. Won't happen though and giving up more would be stupid.

What if it was Mo, Claver and Barton? You think that's stupid?

 

[Natebishop3]

Hey, if I was able to trade Mo for Lowry straight up I would be fine with that. Won't happen though and giving up more would be stupid.

We have no idea what Toronto wants. The only thing we know is that he's supposedly on the block. He makes about six million this year, so we would have to send out Mo, Claver, and maybe Barton. I don't think that's a huge sacrifice to bring in a vastly superior point guard.

Mo can't be traded until the 15th, so at this point it's just conjecture anyway.