What's a teacher make?

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Those were your words. YOU are the lazy worker. But as long as you fake like you're working hard, it ok. Again, your words.

i have people working for me.

My work consists of making decisions, so I can "be lazy". It takes time to get there though.

 

[blazerboy30]

They complain because people like you, El Pres and Maxiep constantly berate their profession. I'm sure it gets tiring hearing that you don't work hard or very much and get to live this cushy life style when the reality is, especially for young teachers, that they put in a ton of hours, work extremely hard and make shit. Oh, but they get better benefits than some. The horror! Better go strip the only financially positive aspect of the job away from them.

1) Sorry. You have the entire thing backwards. The whining and complaining is what brings the criticism from people like me, El Pres and Maxie. When the whining and complaining start is when people actually look into their complaints, and it becomes obvious they have nothing to complain about.

2) You didn't answer the question. Why don't they look for a new job if the teaching job and compensation is so bad?

 

[porkchopexpress]

from earlier:


Average number of school days: *http://ask.yahoo.com/20050509.html



180 days. Lets assume 10 more days (2 weeks) for teacher's inservice, setting up before school year, etc (that is being generous) so 190 days total.


versus the number of work days.

260 days vacations =14 days holidays=10 days vacation.
260-14-10=236 so on average 236 days.


So...per year, a teacher making 60k per year would be equivalent of another working $74,500 per year if based on time actually "worked".

Furthermore, since they only "work" 6 hours per day, the "real" equivalent for work performed is about $100k per year.

Again with the 6 hours a day argument. It's shit like that that makes teachers start complaining about feeling unappreciated.

 

[andalusian]

i have people working for me.

My work consists of making decisions, so I can "be lazy". It takes time to get there though.

Everyone's job consists of making decisions. Otherwise they would be replaced by robots. If you are "lazy" making decisions - they are most likely going to be bad decisions - making a decision is easy. It's the prep to make the right decisions that is the hard work.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

3 months summer vacation + christmas break + spring break. THEN they still get vacation and sick days.

Let's see: the teacher that I dated worked pretty much every day (other than Christmas and a couple of other days) during Winter Break on lesson plans, emergency re-certs, test grading, prep-work for upcoming final exams and cleaning her classroom (since janitorial service had been eliminated/cut at her school other than major facilities maintenance)... and similar story during Spring Break. That doesn't include the time she went shopping at thrift stores for teaching aids/materials and trying to beg donanted school supplies out of local businesses. It also didn't account for the time that parents would call her at all times of the day and night asking for advice or to help little Billy on the phone with his/her homework. One parent had the nerve to ask if she could drop her student off with the teacher at her home for the day "since I'm busy and you guys hang out so often anyway!"

Yeah, being a teacher is just a ball of fucking sunshine.

 

[blazerboy30]

Yeah, being a teacher is just a ball of fucking sunshine.

Why didn't they look for a different job?

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Why didn't they look for a different job?

Well, since you think that teachers are worthless drains on society, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea in your world.

 

[blazerboy30]

Well, since you think that teachers are worthless drains on society, maybe that wouldn't be such a bad idea in your world.

1) I don't think that at all. Stupid strawman.

2) You can't answer the simple question? Why didn't they look for a different job?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Again with the 6 hours a day argument. It's shit like that that makes teachers start complaining about feeling unappreciated.

I don't know if I posted this but I did teach for one year after college. I needed a job and they were easy to get in private schools since I had some experience teaching labs in college. It was a lot of hard work I'm not going to lie. But teachers know what the job is going to be like. You're not going to get rich teaching, its not a money making field for the most part. Its a job for self-satisfaction that you're doing something with COMFORTABLE pay and the best job security around.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

Why didn't they look for a different job?

Because she still found value in the job. And she felt that she was doing what she loved, so the bullshit that she had to go through wasn't worth shitcanning 6 years of university-level training and the student loans that went with it.

As I said before, I don't see why anyone becomes a teacher these days.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Because she still found value in the job. And she felt that she was doing what she loved, so the bullshit that she had to go through wasn't worth shitcanning 6 years of university-level training and the student loans that went with it.

As I said before, I don't see why anyone becomes a teacher these days.

because you can usually do what you love. You think most corporate drones love what they do? Most of it is bitch work and unfulfilling.

 

[blazerboy30]

Because she still found value in the job. And she felt that she was doing what she loved, so the bullshit that she had to go through wasn't worth shitcanning 6 years of university-level training and the student loans that went with it.

As I said before, I don't see why anyone becomes a teacher these days.

Then why bitch and moan? Sounds like a better gig than most working minions.

The reason why teachers bitch and moan is that they feel they can get the sympathy from the public because they have the ace in the pocket... the children. Think about the children!!!

 

[chris_in_pdx]

because you can usually do what you love. You think most corporate drones love what they do? Most of it is bitch work and unfulfilling.

And corporate drones have perks to their jobs, like stock options, advancement opportunities, and chances at real bumps in pay.

A teacher's perks are (or have been) job security, good benefits, and a sense of self-satisfaction that you are helping society by molding the future generations.

I don't see buerecrats making legislation curtailing the ability of corporate drones to receive the perks of their hard work in their system.

 

[BLAZER PROPHET]

My wife taught elementary school for 8 years. It is true, strictly speaking, they get approximately 12 weeks off per year. However, a few things to consider- She averaged 60 hours per week during the school year; in addition to that she had to set up lesson planning every Sunday for the week; she set up continuous parent conferences and had to do her student write-ups in the evenings; she had work of some nature over all the holidays (not full time, but there’s more to teaching than just talking to kids and grading papers); she had to start meetings, setting up the classroom, yearly lesson planning (all mandatory) 3 weeks before school started each year; working on mandatory Masters degrees and continuous CE credits on her own time evenings, weekends and vacation time (and, she had to pay for it herself). Taking all that into account, she actually got about 3-4 weeks off per year based on a 2080 hour work year that salaried employees theoretically work. And that’s about right.

As to their compensation, I think it starts too low, but has a reasonable mid to upper pay scale. It’s the retirement benefits that are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet in many states.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

And corporate drones have perks to their jobs, like stock options, advancement opportunities, and chances at real bumps in pay.

A teacher's perks are (or have been) job security, good benefits, and a sense of self-satisfaction that you are helping society by molding the future generations.

I don't see buerecrats making legislation curtailing the ability of corporate drones to receive the perks of their hard work in their system.

really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123375514020647787.html

 

[chris_in_pdx]

My wife taught elementary school for 8 years. It is true, strictly speaking, they get approximately 12 weeks off per year. However, a few things to consider- She averaged 60 hours per week during the school year; in addition to that she had to set up lesson planning every Sunday for the week; she set up continuous parent conferences and had to do her student write-ups in the evenings; she had work of some nature over all the holidays (not full time, but there’s more to teaching than just talking to kids and grading papers); she had to start meetings, setting up the classroom, yearly lesson planning (all mandatory) 3 weeks before school started each year; working on mandatory Masters degrees and continuous CE credits on her own time evenings, weekends and vacation time (and, she had to pay for it herself). Taking all that into account, she actually got about 3-4 weeks off per year based on a 2080 hour work year that salaried employees theoretically work. And that’s about right.

As to their compensation, I think it starts too low, but has a reasonable mid to upper pay scale. It’s the retirement benefits that are sweeeeeeeeeeeeeet in many states.

And that's the part of the job that people like maxiep and el presidente want to gut. What's your opinion about that?

 

[chris_in_pdx]

really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123375514020647787.html

When a teacher is on par with a corporate executive, then you might, MIGHT have an argument.

 

[blazerboy30]

When a teacher is on par with a corporate executive, then you might, MIGHT have an argument.

And now you're changing your argument.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

So now you're changing your argument?

No, you've attempted to reframe the argument into an Apples and Oranges comparison. I'm simply steering it back to the topic.

 

[andalusian]

really?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123375514020647787.html

Executives are drones? Especially since this is for firms that get "extraordinary assistance" from the government. You are doing the apples and oranges things again. What he said is right when you look at the private sector at large. Honestly - restricting pay and golden parachutes for corporations that needed bailout is not only reasonable - it should have happened from the start in the banking industry that got a bailout and used hundreds of millions on golden parachutes for the people that in large part brought this banks to the position where they needed the bailout.

This link has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Executives are drones? Especially since this is for firms that get "extraordinary assistance" from the government. You are doing the apples and oranges things again. What he said is right when you look at the private sector at large. Honestly - restricting pay and golden parachutes for corporations that needed bailout is not only reasonable - it should have happened from the start in the banking industry that got a bailout and used hundreds of millions on golden parachutes for the people that in large part brought this banks to the position where they needed the bailout.

This link has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

The fact

OK then. What perks is the federal government trying to force teachers to lose then?

"the right for collective bargaining"?

making them pay for their own healthcare (a fraction of it) instead of having taxpayers pay for it?

things that ordinary workers have to do, basically?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

OMG, they limit the amount of money we can throw into our IRA. let's shut down the capital! :MARIS61:

 

[chris_in_pdx]

OK then. What perks is the federal government trying to force teachers to lose then?

"the right for collective bargaining"?

making them pay for their own healthcare (a fraction of it) instead of having taxpayers pay for it?

things that ordinary workers have to do, basically?

YES. These are the perks that teachers have that make their jobs somewhat comparible in compensation for what they do vs. the private sector. Unless you want to give teachers the perks of what "corporate drones" have (specified before), then this is what they take in replacement.

 

[andalusian]

OK then. What perks is the federal government trying to force teachers to lose then?

Teachers, like executives that require bailout - already have limited advancement and compensation options. The reality is that the original comparison to the market at large (not private firms kept alive by bailout) was on the money.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

YES. These are the perks that teachers have that make their jobs somewhat comparible in compensation for what they do vs. the private sector. Unless you want to give teachers the perks of what "corporate drones" have (specified before), then this is what they take in replacement.

The private sector is called the private sector for a reason.

Teachers do not work for profit. They are a money losing institution and do not generate income. We throw money at schools, there is no chance to generate income so there should not be "promotions" but pay levels just like in any corporation not making money.

How are teachers different than any other government employee where there are definite pay levels.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Teachers, like executives that require bailout - already have limited advancement and compensation options. The reality is that the original comparison to the market at large (not private firms kept alive by bailout) was on the money.

Why is this surprising? Unless you want to take away tenure and job security, I don't see why this is shocking. Schools have limited budgets and don't generate income. They are not self-sufficient.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

OK. Bottom line.

How much should a teacher make then?

Should they have tenure?

Should they be graded on their performance with their jobs on the line every year.

 

[andalusian]

Why is this surprising? Unless you want to take away tenure and job security, I don't see why this is shocking. Schools have limited budgets and don't generate income. They are not self-sufficient.

Nothing is surprising about it. I just pointed out that you bringing this link did not address or refute the original claim. It was irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[chris_in_pdx]

The private sector is called the private sector for a reason.

Teachers do not work for profit. They are a money losing institution and do not generate income. We throw money at schools, there is no chance to generate income so there should not be "promotions" but pay levels just like in any corporation not making money.

How are teachers different than any other government employee where there are definite pay levels.

You've just destroyed your own argument! Teachers are like other government employees that there are definate pay levels, but that's the limit of their advancement possibilities and upward mobility. IN COMPENSATION FOR THOSE LIMITATIONS, teachers have been afforded generous benefit packages including a great retirement plan and fully paid health insurance.

Now people like you want to take that level of compensation away from them. But just them. All other government workers: Cops, Firefighters, Politicians, Judges... no one's talking about cutting their benefits, just teachers. Why is that?

 

[andalusian]

OK. Bottom line.

How much should a teacher make then?

Should they have tenure?

Should they be graded on their performance with their jobs on the line every year.

Do not know, do not know, yes (as they probably are already). The only issue I have with this thread is with people upset about the teacher complaining. I think it is good for him - do not see a problem with it - do not see a problem with teachers telling people complaining about them what they really think about them.