Rumor What's going on in Portland? (1 Viewer)

[Phatguysrule]

I think everyone is right. How about that? Portland is an absolute shit show. Its unacceptable, its borderline lawlessness, its disgusting, its a total lack of leadership, toughness, all of it. Everyone in charge of anything downtown should be shown the door. Portland is, without question, a fucking mess. And by Portland I don't just mean the actual downtown/city square area. The outskirts, the increased gun violence, the graffiti, the tents, its complete chaos and it angers me to no end. Now...I think we here in Portland notice this clear as day, but if we spent time in SF, Seattle, LA, San Diego (yes SD, I lived there 10 years), and many other cities we would see this is quite literally a national issue. We, as a country, have no plan for homelessness and it is not a simple fix. I also think Portland has made a nice little name for itself across the nation as being somewhat of the country's epicenter of unrest. We made the nightly news for months because of the ongoing protests. As in, literally on CNN, Fox, you name it, for protesting and rioting for months straight.

The fix actually isn't all that complicated. Give the homeless a safe, secure homes.

Much of the problem would be solved, or at least on its way to being solved. Far cheaper and more effectively than any other way.

 

[Phatguysrule]

All true.

Over the summer, I could’ve told you what they’re protesting. #BLM. I encouraged my children to go protest, and they did and they got teargassed and I was proud of them.

But someone please tell me and @ABM what they’re protesting now. Or answer the question of the original post - what is going on in Portland?

What are they protesting, what do they hope to accomplish, why is vandalizing the city acceptable.? How is it anything but a bunch of anarchists coming up with a “reason” to f with our beloved city?

anyone, anyone?

When did anybody say vandalism or violence was acceptable?

I don't understand how this became a talking point...

 

[Phatguysrule]

This is THE issue though. They are NOT protesting. The city, police, leaders, everyone needs to come to grips the difference between protests and destruction, riots, anger, anarchy. It may sound extreme, but we all know it but let it continue. Stop the madness. Arrest this MF'ers and lock their asses up. Guess what, even these dipshits will not enjoy 7 days in a jail cell. They'll think twice. Right now there is NOOOOO incentive for them to stop.

When did we stop arresting people for damaging private property or committing violence? Who said we should not arrest them?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Is Ted Wheeler an "abject failure" as a Mayor in your opinion?

https://katu.com/news/local/pearl-district-businesses-clean-up-after-protest-vandalism

KATU reached out to Mayor Ted Wheeler's office to ask how his team plans to respond to this. We're still waiting to hear back at this time.

I'd say yes. I don't have a strong opinion one way or another. He's a politician. He does what he thinks will get him re-elected. Some of those things have backfired for him. But he's not working to solve the important issues.

 

[Orion Bailey]

When did anybody say vandalism or violence was acceptable?

I don't understand how this became a talking point...

mostly the bulk of last summer. Anyone who brought it up was deemed anti blm. We were told stores have insurance. It shouldn't be an issue.
Those who brought it up were ridiculed hard around here as not being sensitive to the BLM movement.
We were told many things that basically meant, don't go against the vandalism or your going against the cause.

several threads have these condemnations for those who brought up vandalism as an issue.

 

[Orion Bailey]

When did we stop arresting people for damaging private property or committing violence? Who said we should not arrest them?

If you havent, you should read up on the george thread and the opening days of this one.
This was said many times.
Its all there.

 

[riverman]

And this makes the situation in Portland any different exactly how? Nashville is not making the national headlines other than the lone incident Cliffy so conveniently pointed out. Go back and read @Stevenson's comments if you're really wanting a more local perspective on the matter. I highly doubt we'd be seeing these same comments from you if he had been the only one posting the concern in this thread.

No....several organizers of the insurrection against Capitol Hill were traced to Nashville...it was all over the news...globally. Portland has been the MAGA talking point in speech after speech for a year now by supporters of Trump. Your crime rate has been national news as well...it's where I've read about it multiple times...problem is you won't read anything that shines a negative light on MAGA country over Fox news....which like maris...is your cut and paste news source of choice.....beware of that fake news disease that has infiltrated your party of choice. Nobody believes arsonists are protesting for equality ..

 

[ABM]

No....several organizers of the insurrection against Capitol Hill were traced to Nashville...it was all over the news...globally. Portland has been the MAGA talking point in speech after speech for a year now by supporters of Trump. Your crime rate has been national news as well...it's where I've read about it multiple times...problem is you won't read anything that shines a negative light on MAGA country over Fox news....which like maris...is your cut and paste news source of choice.....beware of that fake news disease that has infiltrated your party of choice. Nobody believes arsonists are protesting for equality ..

Dude, my radar is on DeSantis. Move along. Plus, sorry to break it to ya, but we'll be spending much more time at our place in Panama City Beach.

 

[Orion Bailey]

If the roles were reversed and white people suddenly started to endure what black people continue to live with, anyone think it would just be looting? Thousands of redneck white dumbfucks can’t go to Walmart and Red Robin during a pandemic and they storm our govt offices with AK47’s. But black people getting murdered by “law enforcement” on video every fucking week and they loot a Target and light stuff on fire? Oh the horror

When a white guy shot Martin Luther King there were riots across the country with burning and looting....the generalization is not the issue here...this is a reaction to a really bad white cop killing a black man..in a country that has lynched a lot of black men.....perspective. There's a great video of a black cop disgustedby this who addresses the issue ...couldn't find it on youtube but it really says it all

People need to understand the anger the black and brown community have. Peaceful protests don’t do SHIT! Look at kapernick, he protested police brutality peacefully and got his career and reputation ruined.

you can only peacefully protest for so long while nothing happens/improves

the police don’t give a fuck about a peaceful protest

has been any serious change in any PD that was because of a peaceful protest?

what positive changes did Kaepernick’s peaceful protest bring?

When did anybody say vandalism or violence was acceptable?

I don't understand how this became a talking point...

@Phatguysrule, here are a few posts eluding to anyone complaining about violence, looting or vandalism is on the wrong side. That it should be accepted as an inevitable.
There is much more but this is just from the first few pages.

 

[riverman]

Move along.

#fake crowd control fantasy?

 

[ABM]

#fake crowd control fantasy?

MoveAlong.org.

 

[riverman]

here are a few posts eluding to anyone complaining about violence, looting or vandalism is on the wrong side.

This is a totally misleading statement about the context of my post and my view on violence in general..

 

[riverman]

MoveAlong.org.

to call again please use the pound key and the letters SAND

 

[tlongII]

The major problems right now are definitely greatly exacerbated by covid-19 and the failures of the federal government.

No question.

Sure they are exacerbated by covid-19, but they certainly aren't caused by it.

 

[Orion Bailey]

This is a totally misleading statement about the context of my post and my view on violence in general..

i apologize. I did read through the thread. Not trying to put words in your mouth other than to show that some people voiced opposition to the vandalism that was largely dismissed by most and if someone voiced opposition, they were generally labeled as dismissing the reason why violence and vandalism was occurring.

toy are free to amend and clarify as you please. Ut based on the context of the thread and timing of the post, thats what i got from it.

 

[julius]

I had called him an abject failure as Mayor of Portland. You seemed to take a bit of an issue with that remark. No worries, though. Just wanting to keep you in the loop.

No, I, like many people here, had an issue with someone who doesn't live here proclaiming they know more than the people who do.

Plus there is more than "don't like" and "abject failure" on the venn diagram.

 

[ABM]

No, I, like many people here, had an issue with someone who doesn't live here proclaiming they know more than the people who do.

Plus there is more than "don't like" and "abject failure" on the venn diagram.

OK, got it now. All the locals are cool with the situation. OK, @Stevenson, notwithstanding. But, what does he know.

 

[Minstrel]

Nobody last year ever said that vandalism or looting was fine. What people said was that eventually, after enough injustice, widespread protests are going to happen and some of those aren't going to remain peaceful. Not that it was good, but that it was inevitable.

And also that anyone more focused on, and worried about, vandalism and looting rather than disproportionate violence and killing against minorities by the police had their priorities backward.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Nobody last year ever said that vandalism or looting was fine. What people said was that eventually, after enough injustice, widespread protests are going to happen and some of those aren't going to remain peaceful. Not that it was good, but that it was inevitable.

And also that anyone more focused on, and worried about, vandalism and looting rather than disproportionate violence and killing against minorities by the police had their priorities backward.

the issue last summer and again now, is that when myself or others even mentioned the vandalism was bad, we were accused of having priorities backwards, basically claiming, don't bring it up or your on the wrong side...

so you are saying no one was saying its acceptable, but you are also saying if someone brought the vandalism up as wrong, their priorities were fucked up.
Thats just semantics.
People were basically condemned for bringing it up, as borderline racists, having priorities fucked up, etc.

You dont see the no win situation for anyone who merely wanted to point out the vandalism will kill the good cause?

and then again, several people said “so what, the stores with damaged fronts have insurance”.
Thats also accepting the vandalism.


So then i must ask, when is it possible to say the vandalism is bad without being labeled as having priorities wrong?

 

[calvin natt]

When did we stop arresting people for damaging private property or committing violence? Who said we should not arrest them?

IF someone gets arrested during any of these riots, they are promptly let out - many times same night. That’s like one of my sons stealing from 7-Eleven and I take him home, make him sit in his room for 20 mins and then let him out

 

[Minstrel]

the issue last summer and again now, is that when myself or others even mentioned the vandalism was bad, we were accused of having priorities backwards, basically claiming, don't bring it up or your on the wrong side...

so you are saying no one was saying its acceptable, but you are also saying if someone brought the vandalism up as wrong, their priorities were fucked up.
Thats just semantics.

That's not semantics. That's pointing out that one issue (racial discrimination, by police and government, for decades) is way, way more important than the vandalism and looting taking place by a small percentage of the protestors. Those who think that the vandalism and looting were the most important issue to focus definitely had/have fucked up priorities.

That in no way means that vandalism or looting is okay.

 

[ABM]

And also that anyone more focused on, and worried about, vandalism and looting rather than disproportionate violence and killing against minorities by the police had their priorities backward.

Who knows what they're protesting now. I hear the latest surrounds Biden's immigration policies.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's not semantics. That's pointing out that one issue (racial discrimination, by police and government, for decades) is way, way more important than the vandalism and looting taking place by a small percentage of the protestors. Those who think that the vandalism and looting were the most important issue to focus definitely had/have fucked up priorities.

That in no way means that vandalism or looting is okay.

Please show me any statement saying the vandalism was more important than the reasons behind the protests, OTHER than it hindering the cause?

Seems you are omitting quite a few things that was said this last summer about it being okay because businesses have insurance, laying into people as borderline racists for mentioning vandalism is wrong. Etc.

 

[Orion Bailey]

That's not semantics. That's pointing out that one issue (racial discrimination, by police and government, for decades) is way, way more important than the vandalism and looting taking place by a small percentage of the protestors. Those who think that the vandalism and looting were the most important issue to focus definitely had/have fucked up priorities.

That in no way means that vandalism or looting is okay.

Please show me any statement saying the vandalism was more important than the reasons behind the protests, OTHER than it hindering the cause?

Seems you are omitting quite a few things that was said this last summer about it being okay because businesses have insurance, laying into people as borderline racists for mentioning vandalism is wrong. Etc.

to clarify, not you per say.

 

[Phatguysrule]

IF someone gets arrested during any of these riots, they are promptly let out - many times same night. That’s like one of my sons stealing from 7-Eleven and I take him home, make him sit in his room for 20 mins and then let him out

I've seen no evidence to support that being true. Anybody arrested with evidence of committing harm or theft to people or property are to be charged and held according to the law.

There were people being released because of a lack of evidence of those things. But isn't that what we're supposed to do when we don't have evidence of a crime?

 

[Phatguysrule]

the issue last summer and again now, is that when myself or others even mentioned the vandalism was bad, we were accused of having priorities backwards, basically claiming, don't bring it up or your on the wrong side...

so you are saying no one was saying its acceptable, but you are also saying if someone brought the vandalism up as wrong, their priorities were fucked up.
Thats just semantics.
People were basically condemned for bringing it up, as borderline racists, having priorities fucked up, etc.

You dont see the no win situation for anyone who merely wanted to point out the vandalism will kill the good cause?

and then again, several people said “so what, the stores with damaged fronts have insurance”.
Thats also accepting the vandalism.


So then i must ask, when is it possible to say the vandalism is bad without being labeled as having priorities wrong?

Vandalism is bad. It's always bad. It's damaging property which is not yours.

It's not acceptable unless it is being done in an effort to prevent a worse action or outcome.

Anybody who commits vandalism should b punished according to the law if we can prove that person committed the crime.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I've seen no evidence to support that being true. Anybody arrested with evidence of committing harm or theft to people or property are to be charged and held according to the law.

There were people being released because of a lack of evidence of those things. But isn't that what we're supposed to do when we don't have evidence of a crime?

this was reported in the papers. It absolutely happened as far as it was widely reported.

Many people were released after committing crimes. Im sure there is video evidence out there but simply not enough manpower or resources to find the proper evidence.
Sorry man but some of the things you are saying didn't happen, did happen.

 

[Phatguysrule]

mostly the bulk of last summer. Anyone who brought it up was deemed anti blm. We were told stores have insurance. It shouldn't be an issue.
Those who brought it up were ridiculed hard around here as not being sensitive to the BLM movement.
We were told many things that basically meant, don't go against the vandalism or your going against the cause.

several threads have these condemnations for those who brought up vandalism as an issue.

Nobody in this thread has control over their city or the police. What leader supported that behavior?

 

[Orion Bailey]

Vandalism is bad. It's always bad. It's damaging property which is not yours.

It's not acceptable unless it is being done in an effort to prevent a worse action or outcome.

Anybody who commits vandalism should b punished according to the law if we can prove that person committed the crime.

Thats fair.

 

[Phatguysrule]

this was reported in the papers. It absolutely happened as far as it was widely reported.

Many people were released after committing crimes. Im sure there is video evidence out there but simply not enough manpower or resources to find the proper evidence.
Sorry man but some of the things you are saying didn't happen, did happen.

Yeah, so I believe evidence. Not rumors. So when the police decide they want to wear body cams to gather the evidence they are not currently gathering it will be much easier to keep the criminals in jail.