Rumor What's going on in Portland?

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Phatguysrule said:
That is less efficient, hence more expensive.
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Perhaps, but it could absolutely be dove-tailed in with other methods short of a one-size-fits-all approach.
 
Orion Bailey said:
possibly. But that would only work with newborns. How do we deal with all the run down cars sitting in the lots currently?
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That's not entirely true. If I buy a used car, maybe the previous owner didn't take care of it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't either. It still has a better chance if I regularly do the maintenance it needs.
I was shit at taking care of my teeth when I was a teen/early adult. As a result, I have like 4 crowns on my back teeth, and have had numerous fillings, etc. But it wasn't too late to change my habits. Just because I didn't start from a child, I began a better teeth brushing/flossing/gum care routine and have not had a cavity in probably 10 years. By regularly attending my cleanings and following a healthy routine, I saved my self thousands of dollars.

I've had medical issues that I've put off in the past that have cost me more simply by not fixing something when it was initially wrong. And by not checking to see if things were wrong earlier on.
 
Orion Bailey said:
How many peolple here have no life threatening problems you would have taken care of if it didn't cost anything and how much of that do you think is considered in figuring the cost of universal health care?

again. Im not saying it can happen. Im saying the reports have glaring holes that lead to my concerns of the validity of the numbers.
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It's fine that beauty is a benefit of the wealthy, but life its self? Should one's economic position dictate the length of their life?

Just because you're born wealthy mean you get to live longer than someone who isn't?
 
Phatguysrule said:
If it's not medically necessary it wouldn't be covered. This is all calculated in. It's a 2oo page study. Your questions have been answered.
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If its not medically necessary to why would i want a change. My coverage is almost free for necessary procedures, currently.

oh and i apologize for not being able to read a 200 page report in 10 minutes. :)
 
RR7 said:
That's not entirely true. If I buy a used car, maybe the previous owner didn't take care of it, but that doesn't mean I shouldn't either. It still has a better chance if I regularly do the maintenance it needs.
I was shit at taking care of my teeth when I was a teen/early adult. As a result, I have like 4 crowns on my back teeth, and have had numerous fillings, etc. But it wasn't too late to change my habits. Just because I didn't start from a child, I began a better teeth brushing/flossing/gum care routine and have not had a cavity in probably 10 years. By regularly attending my cleanings and following a healthy routine, I saved my self thousands of dollars.

I've had medical issues that I've put off in the past that have cost me more simply by not fixing something when it was initially wrong. And by not checking to see if things were wrong earlier on.
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most will need an initial overhaul to get back to par, would they not?
 
giphy1228.gif Meanwhile, in Portland, Liberalism has exceeded it's boundaries. ( a Republicans' nightmare)
 

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SlyPokerDog said:
It's fine that beauty is a benefit of the wealthy, but life its self? Should one's economic position dictate the length of their life?

Just because you're born wealthy mean you get to live longer than someone who isn't?
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depends on how much harder my parents worked to provide their offspring with this benefit vs others whos parents may not have?

Attaining wealth was originally to set your family up. Children, grandchildren. How is this now a bad thing?
 
Orion Bailey said:
most will need an initial overhaul to get back to par, would they not?
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I don't think a huge medical overhaul. But, I think of just people going in for a checkup they might not otherwise go in for and being told hey, you have high blood pressure, lets'work to fix that. And the checkup, finding the high blood pressure, and making changes can go a long ways towards not having that person have the medical bills in a few months from a heart attack.
 
RR7 said:
I don't think a huge medical overhaul. But, I think of just people going in for a checkup they might not otherwise go in for and being told hey, you have high blood pressure, lets'work to fix that. And the checkup, finding the high blood pressure, and making changes can go a long ways towards not having that person have the medical bills in a few months from a heart attack.
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Fair enough. What about people like me that just refuse to go unless im about to die? Lol.
 
Question for the group:

What should your doctor receive additional financial bonuses for?

1. Not referring patients for additional tests or to see specialists? (Yes, large insurance companies currently give doctors bonuses for this.)

2. If the patients in his practice as a group sees measurable reductions things like obesity? cholesterol? diabetes? heart disease?

We can add capitalistic incentives to socialized medicine that would reduce healthcare costs and improve health.
 
RR7 said:
Your near death experience when it comes doesn't completely bankrupt you?
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nah i just meant for those who dont go to the dentist or have that hairline fracture put in a cast or pinned up or whatever?

i broke my hand. Never saw a doctor.

im being a bit facetious now though. ;)
 
Orion Bailey said:
Attaining wealth was originally to set your family up. Children, grandchildren. How is this now a bad thing?
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The bad thing is children who didn't inherit generational wealth not having the same opportunity to maximize their ability. That's why we need to create a decent floor for anyone, even those born to poor parents.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Question for the group:

What should your doctor receive additional financial bonuses for?

1. Not referring patients for additional tests or to see specialists? (Yes, large insurance companies currently give doctors bonuses for this.)

2. If the patients in his practice as a group sees measurable reductions things like obesity? cholesterol? diabetes? heart disease?

We can add capitalistic incentives to socialized medicine that would reduce healthcare costs and improve health.
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incentive based health care? Hmmm. There is a thought.
 
Minstrel said:
The bad thing is children who didn't inherit generational wealth not having the same opportunity to maximize their ability. That's why we need to create a decent floor for anyone, even those born to poor parents.
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cant any child enroll into the public school system that most other children go to?

We already have welfare that is regularly abused.
 
Orion Bailey said:
cant any child enroll into the public school system that most other children go to?
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Public school system quality varies wildly from community to community and those in bad neighborhoods often have the double-whammy of not only being poorly-funded, but the kids in those neighborhoods having to worry about their safety (not to mention hunger, which affects academic achievement).

So no, opportunity, even in terms of public education, is nowhere near equal. We need to invest a lot more tax-payer money into improving neighborhoods and the schools in those neighborhoods, as well as making sure everyone has proper housing, food and health care.
 
SlyPokerDog said:
Yes, incentive based health care. That was also part of my dental insurance example.

Incentivizing both patient and provider should be a part of any healthcare system.
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On that note, here's yet another idea.

 
Minstrel said:
Public school system quality varies wildly from community to community and those in bad neighborhoods often have the double-whammy of not only being poorly-funded, but the kids in those neighborhoods having to worry about their safety (not to mention hunger, which affects academic achievement).

So no, opportunity, even in terms of public education, is nowhere near equal. We need to invest a lot more tax-payer money into improving neighborhoods and the schools in those neighborhoods, as well as making sure everyone has proper housing, food and health care.
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ill have to research this but i question it. I could have sworn a decade or so ago a report came out that Washington dc spends more per child on their educational system than any other district but still have some of the lowest national scores.
I dont think the answer is, throw more money at it and it will be fine.
 
Orion Bailey said:
ill have to research this but i question it. I could have sworn a decade or so ago a report came out that Washington dc spends more per child on their educational system than any other district but still have some of the lowest national scores.
I dont think the answer is, throw more money at it and it will be fine.
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The answer is never throwing money at a single thing, complicated social issues require holistic solutions. That's why I didn't just say pump money into schools--we also have to invest in improving neighborhoods, we also have to invest in people having their basic needs (food, housing, clothes, etc) met. Everything has to be improved together--trying to fix one thing in isolation rarely works.
 
Orion Bailey said:
not following you. How so?
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Within the U.S. system, the share of expenditures that are attributable to administrative costs varies greatly by payer. The BIR costs for traditional Medicare and Medicaid hover around 2 percent to 5 percent, while those for private insurance is about 17 percent.32
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https://www.americanprogress.org/is...strative-costs-burden-u-s-health-care-system/

Not to mention the added costs each office has to incur to do business with the hundreds of healthcare providers.
 
Orion Bailey said:
If its not medically necessary to why would i want a change. My coverage is almost free for necessary procedures, currently.

oh and i apologize for not being able to read a 200 page report in 10 minutes. :)
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Your questions are answered there. You expect me to search through 200 pages to find the answer for you? And your coverage is not free. That's part of your compensation. You are paying for it. Just like you would be under single payer. Extept you'd be paying less via single payer.
 
Minstrel said:
The answer is never throwing money at a single thing, complicated social issues require holistic solutions. That's why I didn't just say pump money into schools--we also have to invest in improving neighborhoods, we also have to invest in people having their basic needs (food, housing, clothes, etc) met. Everything has to be improved together--trying to fix one thing in isolation rarely works.
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so what would you say or do for those who get welfare checks to put clothes on thier children's backs but dont do that and this let the child suffer?

See im of the opinion that parental guidance has diminished to the point we need to hold parents accountable for their childrens suffering.

Id be open to discussing something that assesses parental abilities and care and somehow determining who is fit and isnt fit to beca parent.
If we aRe going to have other people pay parents more to take care of their children, i would like assurance the money is spent judiciously.


Of the things you mentioned needing improvement( i dont disagree( how would you go about doing so without increased spending?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Your questions are answered there. You expect me to search through 200 pages to find the answer for you? And your coverage is not free. That's part of your compensation. You are paying for it. Just like you would be under single payer. Extept you'd be paying less via single payer.
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you are the one asserting the answers are there. Where? Lol.

okay if toy calculate it on top of my salary i suppose, but i wasnt provided the option, 90k a year with coverage or 100k a year without.
I was offered a salary. I accepted it. It came with coverage.
 
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