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Chris Craig said:
They didnt put them in neighborhoods around town. The homeless population has exploded and they have no where else to go. Its only going to get worse.

They tried to open shelters across the city, but everyone turned their noses up and made a fit. So, now the sidewalks are full of camps.
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i never said that. The new proposal says that.
 
Stevenson said:
Truly, you have no idea what you are talking about. Zippo.

My oldest daughter lives in Southeast. The problem is so bad that she and her husband decided to do something about it.

They went on the GoFundMe and raised $2500. Then during the winter they went out three different times with home cooked hot meals for people. They also brought new sleeping bags and warm socks. She said they need was enormous. They couldn't give the stuff away fast enough. It was people displaced by Covid, job losses, drugs too, you name it. Teens? Nope. Addicts? A few.

"There is help already." Get a clue. Example: My daughter put together packets for women - tampons, shampoo, sanitary pads, band aids, etc. That was what was needed most. People wanted socks that are not wet. Must be nice in your warm home, life of relative privilege, money, etc judging others who have had such a hard time they live ON THE FRIGGIN STREET IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR COLD, WET WINTER.

So I laugh at you too and but I don't "consider" you heartless. You have proven it.
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Let me clarify. There is help already for drug addicts.

so your daughter put together a care package and that makes me clueless???

man. Nice.

not sure why you quoted me if this is your response. To belittle.

i dont get people who insult while saying someones opinion is wrong rather than asking questions to clarify.

but yeah. Im the clueless one...
 
Shaboid said:
If you want to debate a specific proposal can we have a link, please?
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not sure there is a link. It was on the radio yesterday. But if i have to do the research for you ill find it this weekend....

but to clarify i did say i heard yesterday. Not read?

maybe you missed this?

Orion Bailey said:
Yeah. I heard on the radio today that wheeler and appointed Sam Adams’s plan is to build camps in neighborhoods around town and relocate them there.

i mean... im at a loss for words other than im sooo glad i got out.
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Heeeer we go again. I stated my thoughts and opinions without pinpointing anyone and now the insults and belittling will commence coming at me and when i return fire, ill be blamed for all the drama around here...
Fucking unreal... lol.

and then the mods will post some ling diatribe sensationalizing and damn near lying about how im chasing one of you around and messaging them regularly and some bullshit like that.

Its all my fault though for expecting a bit more maturity from fellow Blazers fans i suppose...
 
Road Ratt said:
As corporations dole out less than living wages, our own U.S. government looks the other way. Our U.S. congress is every bit as inhumane as our ruling class is.

Things are only going to get worse.
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Living wages is a part of it. Economically speaking the issue is wage vs inflation. We live in a system that resembles a trapeze without a net. It's very precarious.

We have people working and "flying back and forth" paying rent, bills, taxes, etc. If a "trapeze artist" loses their grip (job) then they fall because they can't get to the other side (pay rent, bills, etc). A small number are making their way back and forth quite easily. (The well off). Most don't have a good grip (they don't make enough in wages from work to pay everything. ) They have to juggle while they are doing the trapeze. Not easy.

Some might then say well why don't they save money so they can create a net. They barely make enough to pay the rent, bills, etc. They can't create a net.

Then as inflation goes up at a far faster pace than wages, more and more people fall because really its not sustainable.

Then the people still trapezing with ease look down at them and say, "Why the fuck did they fall? I don't want to have to look at them. I'm trying to enjoy my trapezing. Get them the fuck out of here."
 
Orion Bailey said:
We will have to agree to disagree for a few reasons:

first the homeless are already spread out. The narrative that its jsut downtown is way off base. they are all along 205, johnsons creek trail, etc etc etc.

Second they wont be given apartments from what i gathered. Just minimal shelters in existing neighborhoods

lastly, i highly doubt anyone who owns a home would like a homeless camp set up next door to them.

i do not believe for a second housing them will rid portland of the problem. It will Just put us further in debt. Because we will still be paying for al the clean up they require, plus funding the roof over thier head.
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All available evidence proves you're wrong about the results of getting them in homes. If getting them in homes is not a part of the plan then it will not work as well, if it works at all.

Public spaces get cleaned up and stay cleaned up.

Society saves money by not having to pay $30k per year in Police, maintenance, and emergency services.

Parks and public spaces become cleaner and safer.

It has worked this way everywhere it has been implemented.

The only possible downside is increased demand on lower priced housing, which is a problem we're already dealing with, and we'd need to deal with anyway unless we plan on keeping these people homeless until they die.

So, literally no downside.
 
Orion Bailey said:
i never said that. The new proposal says that.
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Didn't say you did. Just noting that yeah they were going to have shelters built in the most affected neighborhoods but the people in those neighborhoods turned their nose up and now have homeless people living outside their houses.
 
Hoopguru said:
I think its possible to build homeless communities within the State that are available to those that want to reside there and contribute in some way. Communal living where all things common. This State has enough property in different locals where communities could be built and managed. If they have drug or alcohol addiction offer free help. Same with mental issues. Encampments are popping up all over Portland. Why?
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Why do most people live in cities? It's more convenient than the alternatives.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Heeeer we go again. I stated my thoughts and opinions without pinpointing anyone and now the insults and belittling will commence coming at me and when i return fire, ill be blamed for all the drama around here...
Fucking unreal... lol.

and then the mods will post some ling diatribe sensationalizing and damn near lying about how im chasing one of you around and messaging them regularly and some bullshit like that.

Its all my fault though for expecting a bit more maturity from fellow Blazers fans i suppose...
Click to expand...

Who insulted or belittled you?
 
Phatguysrule said:
All available evidence proves you're wrong about the results of getting them in homes. If getting them in homes is not a part of the plan then it will not work as well, if it works at all.

Public spaces get cleaned up and stay cleaned up.

Society saves money by not having to pay $30k per year in Police, maintenance, and emergency services.

Parks and public spaces become cleaner and safer.

It has worked this way everywhere it has been implemented.

The only possible downside is increased demand on lower priced housing, which is a problem we're already dealing with, and we'd need to deal with anyway unless we plan on keeping these people homeless until they die.

So, literally no downside.
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id say its not all the evidence, its all the reports that omit certain things from the equation, skewing the costs.
Weve been through this. I do not believe the reports to be accurate for a few basic reasons the reports dont address. Not the ones ive seen anyhow.
 
Phatguysrule said:
All available evidence proves you're wrong about the results of getting them in homes. If getting them in homes is not a part of the plan then it will not work as well, if it works at all.

Public spaces get cleaned up and stay cleaned up.

Society saves money by not having to pay $30k per year in Police, maintenance, and emergency services.

Parks and public spaces become cleaner and safer.

It has worked this way everywhere it has been implemented.

The only possible downside is increased demand on lower priced housing, which is a problem we're already dealing with, and we'd need to deal with anyway unless we plan on keeping these people homeless until they die.

So, literally no downside.
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Tiny Homes, Mobile homes and/or travel trailers on acreage would work but there would have to be basic rules and amenities available. There could actually be different categories of villages where people could spring board back to society, if they wanted.
You cant have these inter city encampments popping up near schools or on roadways or even in front of business's.
 
Chris Craig said:
Didn't say you did. Just noting that yeah they were going to have shelters built in the most affected neighborhoods but the people in those neighborhoods turned their nose up and now have homeless people living outside their houses.
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But they arent having to pay for a roof over thier head. Id turn my nose up to it as well.
The homeless is a multi faceted issue.
Housing them will only enable them.
They need other help first before we think they can jsut have a roof and turn productive.
 
Phatguysrule said:
Why do most people live in cities? It's more convenient than the alternatives.
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Partly true imo, but also if nothing is done to prohibit or provide options then cities are a magnet. You dont see this as bad in some cities across America.
 
Orion Bailey said:
But they arent having to pay for a roof over thier head. Id turn my nose up to it as well.
The homeless is a multi faceted issue.
Housing them will only enable them.
They need other help first before we think they can jsut have a roof and turn productive.
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Enabling them to what? Just getting them a roof saves us money and cleans up streets and public spaces. How is that not productive?

Getting them help beyond that (which evidence shows is also less expensive, more effective, and longer lasting for people who have homes) is just icing on the cake for society.
 
Chris Craig said:
Living wages is a part of it. Economically speaking the issue is wage vs inflation. We live in a system that resembles a trapeze without a net. It's very precarious.

We have people working and flying back in forth paying rent, bills, taxes, etc. If a "trapeze artist" loses their grip (job) then they fall because they can't get to the other side (pay rent, bills, etc). A small number are making their way back and forth quite easily. (The well off). Most don't have a good grip (they don't make enough in wages from work to pay everything. ) They have to juggle while they are doing the trapeze. Not easy.
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All a direct result of the government intervention into our economy...
End the FED!
 
Orion Bailey said:
But they arent having to pay for a roof over thier head. Id turn my nose up to it as well.
The homeless is a multi faceted issue.
Housing them will only enable them.
They need other help first before we think they can jsut have a roof and turn productive.
Click to expand...

You help them until they can help themselves again.

What's your solution?
 
SlyPokerDog said:
I tried to get someone into drug treatment a few years back, there was a 6 months waiting list for free inpatient treatment. Not sure what it is now.
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Yeah, it can be years. By then its too late. We need more inpatient treatment programs.
 
Stevenson said:
Truly, you have no idea what you are talking about. Zippo.

My oldest daughter lives in Southeast. The problem is so bad that she and her husband decided to do something about it.

They went on the GoFundMe and raised $2500. Then during the winter they went out three different times with home cooked hot meals for people. They also brought new sleeping bags and warm socks. She said they need was enormous. They couldn't give the stuff away fast enough. It was people displaced by Covid, job losses, drugs too, you name it. Teens? Nope. Addicts? A few.

"There is help already." Get a clue. Example: My daughter put together packets for women - tampons, shampoo, sanitary pads, band aids, etc. That was what was needed most. People wanted socks that are not wet. Must be nice in your warm home, life of relative privilege, money, etc judging others who have had such a hard time they live ON THE FRIGGIN STREET IN THE MIDDLE OF OUR COLD, WET WINTER.

So I laugh at you too and but I don't "consider" you heartless. You have proven it.
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Chris Craig said:
Who insulted or belittled you?
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see above

and for thecrecord thst demeaning comment about must be nicecin my home???

ive lived on the streets more than once.
Maybe dude should stop judging so much and ask questions. But then i see the people who liked that posts and it makes me realize how ridiculous this place is.
Seriously. The oens who push thier opinion the most agressively are the same ones who simply cannot have a mature discussion without belittling the opposition.
And i remember a mod getting on me here because” weee all grownups”



riiighhht.
Im out of this discussion. Il have it in private with anyone who can be mature enough to not assert thier differing opinions without being insulting.

smfh.....
 
Orion Bailey said:
see above

and for thecrecord thst demeaning comment about must be nicecin my home???

ive lived on the streets more than once.
Maybe dude should stop judging so much and ask questions. But then i see the people who liked that posts and it makes me realize how ridiculous this place is.
Seriously. The oens who push thier opinion the most agressively are the same ones who simply cannot have a mature discussion without belittling the opposition.
And i remember a mod getting on me here because” weee all grownups”



riiighhht.
Im out of this discussion. Il have it in private with anyone who can be mature enough to not assert thier differing opinions without being insulting.

smfh.....
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I agree with a lot of what you say. There has to be a level of commitment form the person wanting to rebuild or re-enter society. There are those that dont know what commitment is and do not care about things but one day to the next. I talked to homeless from time to time and I hear that there are to many flakes hurting others amongst the camps. Those could be sent to some far off island.
 
From my personal very non-scientific observations of individual homeless camps I see the following patterns...

1. Massive hoarding of crap. Messy camp of stuff either stolen from the neighborhood or taken out of dumpsters.

2. Chaos. Just a dirty rorschach test.

3. Very neat, very tidy, very portable.


I would say type 1s are drug addicts.

Type 2s have mental problems.

Type 3s are the working homeless. You might work with a 3 and not know it.


I would find ways to classify the homeless you are working with.

Type 3s need immediate housing. These have the highest return on public help and investment.

Type 2s need medical assessment. A controlled group home environment with medication and counselling.

Type 1s are the hardest and biggest problem. Drug addiction so severe they have de-evolved into a hunter gatherer existence. They need something similar to jail until they are clean of their addiction. Then they need counselling in a group home environment.
 
I’m gonna be sorry for wading in but……..there is NO easy solution to the homeless problem, if there is any solution at all. “Homeless” takes in all kinds of factors; mental health issues, lost jobs, lack of education, lifestyle preferences, etc, etc, etc. Having volunteered at my local food bank, along with dealing with a family member with mental health issues I’ve met all kinds of homeless people, community activists, recovering substance abusers, assorted volunteers and counselors and so on. One thing I learned for certain is that one size does NOT fit all.

First, for those struggling with mental health issues, society provides little if any real assistance to the individuals or their families. When it comes to nut cutting time, social services ALWAYS take the first and biggest hit. And it’s only going to get worse as long as the Republican Party exists. It’s always going to be “someone else’s” problem. So it’s hard to get mentally ill individuals off the street unless and until they can get mental health assistance. Good luck with that…….unless you have a great deal of money and an individual suddenly wakes up and decides to seek help on their own. About the only “easy” resource is food (at least in Oregon).

Second, you can’t force a mentally ill person to do anything unless and until they are a danger to themselves or others. Until then, they pretty much have free rein, and families just have to stand back and watch. And pray they won’t be held liable if the mentally ill individual ends up wreaking havoc.

Third, it’s actually shocking how many homeless, mentally ill or not(?) do NOT want to get off the street and refuse housing assistance. This isn’t just some urban legend. Some people are fine with the “carefree” lifestyle. They don’t have to pay rent, taxes, utility bills and so on. Or if someone is going to help them off the street, they’ll only participate if it meets their own criteria (usually unreasonable expectations versus what assistance is actually available). More disturbing than the number of mentally ill homeless is the actual number of individuals who are homeless specifically because they ARE “lazy” and aren’t interested working an actual job. They want society to give them a living.

So anyone looking for easy solutions is pissing into the wind. Personally, I think the very first step is a seriously beefed up mental health care system that provides mental health care to individuals and families who can’t afford it on their own. That HAS to be the first step. But until society decides to care about those who truly can’t care for themselves the problem is not only going nowhere, it’s going to get worse.
 
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