Rumor What's going on in Portland? (1 Viewer)

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So then, this is where we are in fundamental disagreement. And that's OK--at least we've been able to communicate effectively to find that point.

I will never be on board with a "perfect solutions only" mindset...especially when it comes to an issue as complex as homelessness. "Perfect is the enemy of good" is one of my favorite maxims, and I absolutely believe it applies here. Like I said above--even if we're not fixing everything, it's better to improve something than to do nothing. That is a hill from which I'll never be moved.
What if the proposed fix helps one person but enables two more to jump in and take advantage and abuse it. Is it still worth it to fix one but create two more problems?

I see the potential to take a step forward but them take two steps back. Again this is a Portland focus only due to the large percentage who want to burn it all down. I fully believe anyone and everyone would jump on board and compound the abuse or where we very likely might enable more people to be destructive than it helps people get out of the situation the are in.
Is it still a positive then? Don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?
People move here for the cultist/anarchist environment ww have enabled. Creating systems without addressing this will further compound this issue in my mind, to the point that for every one person we help we create two or three more problems. Is that still worth it?
 
What if the proposed fix helps one person but enables two more to jump in and take advantage and abuse it. Is it still worth it to fix one but create two more problems?

I see the potential to take a step forward but them take two steps back. Again this is a Portland focus only due to the large percentage who want to burn it all down. I fully believe anyone and everyone would jump on board and compound the abuse or where we very likely might enable more people to be destructive than it helps people get out of the situation the are in.
Is it still a positive then? Don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few?
People move here for the cultist/anarchist environment ww have enabled. Creating systems without addressing this will further compound this issue in my mind, to the point that for every one person we help we create two or three more problems. Is that still worth it?
There are a lot of ifs and assumptions there that may or may not be true--but the only way to know for sure whether any effort will have a positive impact is to try it. Try something. And continue analyzing and evaluating and refining.
 
There are a lot of ifs and assumptions there that may or may not be true--but the only way to know for sure whether any effort will have a positive impact is to try it. Try something. And continue analyzing and evaluating and refining.

100% agree but i think the alternative is based on a bunch of assumptions as well. Assuming people wont abuse the system and costs will not increase, etc.
I think the point i have is it feels like every solution dismisses this portion of the issue and this portion may cause failure to the system. Id love to see any model or any advocate of the model address this. Doesn't mean they have a solution, but not dismiss it as irrelevant. To me, and many many others, its very relevant. If people feel like the money they spend on aid is going to be abused, they wont vote to continue to pay into it.
Not based on conversations ive had with people anyhow.
 
There is no fool proof solution to any single problem or issue that doesn't open up to the potential for abuse or mismanagement. To expect perfection seems like a way to just advocate for not helping the majority in need. Might as well just eliminate all social welfare systems that aim to help the poor and out of luck. Fuck them people because of some angry youth?
 
There is no fool proof solution to any single problem or issue that doesn't open up to the potential for abuse or mismanagement. To expect perfection seems like a way to just advocate for not helping the majority in need. Might as well just eliminate all social welfare systems that aim to help the poor and out of luck. Fuck them people because of some angry youth?

I believe that's the standard Republican Party platform on social issues.
 
100% agree but i think the alternative is based on a bunch of assumptions as well. Assuming people wont abuse the system and costs will not increase, etc.
Except I don't assume any of that. The only assumption that I make is that trying something is better than doing nothing. I'd rather try and fail than not try at all.
 
There are a lot of ifs and assumptions there that may or may not be true--but the only way to know for sure whether any effort will have a positive impact is to try it. Try something. And continue analyzing and evaluating and refining.

See this is where i have to bow out of this convo now. Instead of others actually joining the convo, they prefer to make snyde remarks…
So with that said i enjoyed our convo @PtldPlatypus and @Phatguysrule

but now the peanut gallery is cackling so im gonna move on.
 
Except I don't assume any of that. The only assumption that I make is that trying something is better than doing nothing.

my assumption is based on actual interactions with homeless youth in portland. Its a valid assumption. all good though. Appreciate the convo.
 
See this is where i have to bow out of this convo now. Instead of others actually joining the convo, they prefer to make snyde remarks…
So with that said i enjoyed our convo @PtldPlatypus and @Phatguysrule

but now the peanut gallery is cackling so im gonna move on.

I hope I'm not the conversation killer. I'm too Covid-addled to add much to the conversation. I've gone back several pages and I still can't find what the basic proposals are. Just ignore me. I'll go back to sleep now.
 
I hope I'm not the conversation killer. I'm too Covid-addled to add much to the conversation. I've gone back several pages and I still can't find what the basic proposals are. Just ignore me. I'll go back to sleep now.
Don't worry, it's me. Some people don't like their takes spelled out in other terms. Unless, of course, I misinterpreted the stance that it is best to do nothing until the perfect solution could be found, because doing something not perfect could be abused by a few.
 
I hope I'm not the conversation killer. I'm too Covid-addled to add much to the conversation. I've gone back several pages and I still can't find what the basic proposals are. Just ignore me. I'll go back to sleep now.

One of several. Honestly though. You are wrong in your statement. I have conservative republican views, but by no means subscribe to what was insinuated and frankly, i find it no different than saying all asians are poor drivers or all blacks are criminals. Or all hispanics are illegal aliens.
Painting all republicans as one is no better. I don't vote party line and i know many republicans who don't vote party lines.
Painting us all the same as trump and desantis is no more help to the discussion than me saying the things i just said above.

You however are a rare participant in the typical snyde comments i regularly get from others whenever i attempt to converse on such topics. So you sir, are excused. :)

I still need to bow out though as i see where this is going and im not gonna be a contributor to… nuff said. :)
 
Don't worry, it's me. Some people don't like their takes spelled out in other terms. Unless, of course, I misinterpreted the stance that it is best to do nothing until the perfect solution could be found, because doing something not perfect could be abused by a few.

Hahahaha!
 
One of several. Honestly though. You are wrong in your statement. I have conservative republican views, but by no means subscribe to what was insinuated and frankly, i find it no different than saying all asians are poor drivers or all blacks are criminals. Or all hispanics are illegal aliens.
Painting all republicans as one is no better. I don't vote party line and i know many republicans who don't vote party lines.
Painting us all the same as trump and desantis is no more help to the discussion than me saying the things i just said above.

You however are a rare participant in the typical snyde comments i regularly get from others whenever i attempt to converse on such topics. So you sir, are excused. :)

I still need to bow out though as i see where this is going and im not gonna be a contributor to… nuff said. :)

Sorry if my snide crack bothered you. As a former Republican pre-Trump, I feel free to make cracks about the party's rather confused social policies. I know it was stereotypical, but there isn't much new movement that I've seen on a more coherent approach to an increasing problem.
 
Sorry if my snide crack bothered you. As a former Republican pre-Trump, I feel free to make cracks about the party's rather confused social policies. I know it was stereotypical, but there isn't much new movement that I've seen on a more coherent approach to an increasing problem.

All good. We are in the exact same boat. Im now an independent. My political views haven't changed but my view of the parties has.
Regardless we need to be better. You, me, everyone. Mimicking cnn and fox news wide brush painting wont help anything but create more dissension and segregation.
I get jokes, but not when it feeds into an echo chamber like here.
 
Sorry if my snide crack bothered you. As a former Republican pre-Trump, I feel free to make cracks about the party's rather confused social policies. I know it was stereotypical, but there isn't much new movement that I've seen on a more coherent approach to an increasing problem.

Did you change to independent? If so, how do you feel about no longer having a say in the primaries? Im conflicted on this.
 
All good. We are in the exact same boat. Im now an independent. My political views haven't changed but my view of the parties has.
Regardless we need to be better. You, me, everyone. Mimicking cnn and fox news wide brush painting wont help anything but create more dissension and segregation.
I get jokes, but not when it feeds into an echo chamber like here.

Fair enough. On the opposite end of the political Looney Tunes, I thought the NYT newsletter the other day was hilarious in a comment made about homelessness. The situation in Phoenix with a large homeless camp located near a restaurant was causing problems that had the long-time owners considering whether they could continue to operate. The comment by the NYT writer, German Lopez, was that America has failed to build enough low cost housing. He might have added, or dealt with drugs, alcohol, schizophrenia, and the other multiple reasons that people are on the street other than not having the money to buy a house.
 
Did you change to independent? If so, how do you feel about no longer having a say in the primaries? Im conflicted on this.

Yup, although I feel free to play the field in the primaries. I'll reregister at the drop of a hat. Switched temporarily to R to cast a protest vote against Trump. I may do the same as a Dem to protest Joe running again at his age.
 
Fair enough. On the opposite end of the political Looney Tunes, I thought the NYT newsletter the other day was hilarious in a comment made about homelessness. The situation in Phoenix with a large homeless camp located near a restaurant was causing problems that had the long-time owners considering whether they could continue to operate. The comment by the NYT writer, German Lopez, was that America has failed to build enough low cost housing. He might have added, or dealt with drugs, alcohol, schizophrenia, and the other multiple reasons that people are on the street other than not having the money to buy a house.

Funny. Its sooooooo complicated. Those who dont see how many facets play into the homeless probably shouldn't be writing about it. Lol.
 
Yup, although I feel free to play the field in the primaries. I'll reregister at the drop of a hat. Switched temporarily to R to cast a protest vote against Trump. I may do the same as a Dem to protest Joe running again at his age.

Genius!!!
I had no idea they would allow that. I just ASSumed they wouldn't allow jumping around.
Im totally following suit!!
 
And definitely stops by Baes Fried Chicken next door!!!
 
With regards to Portland? I think so. Ive had too many direct discussions with youth on the streets wanting to burn it all down. With regards to Portland, if we do not address this first, I think the proposed system will be abused to the point of failure. When i say failure, meaning it would end up costing more than we are currently spending, because a large portion of the funds will be wasted on these types.
Anybody doing property damage should be put in jail.

Especially repeat offenders. They are criminals. Their home should be in jail.

*Edit* This would be included in the education and corrections reform as I've discussed above.
 
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Portland became too much "city" for me over two decades ago....it's why I moved to Lane County...all urban sprawls eventually morph into mismanaged communities as the population doesn't fit the ways and means or cost of living and social services are stretched too thin....sometimes it's a combination of natural disasters or cost of living stress but just as often it's mental illness, addiction or desperation that drives people to give up trying. Hopefully some sense of reconstruction can turn it around like Jimmy Carter did with Habitat for Humaity. An example of stressed social services would be the border having something like 150K pending immigration cases and just a handful of govt lawyers to hear the cases. They need an army of social service workers to tackle that problem if they want to solve it....same with homeless problems..it's going to take an army of social service workers to clean up our cities and all cities are battling this issue, not just Oregon. New York City went through decades of reconstruction from the squatter, homeless problem they had in the 70s to modern day NY....it doesn't change overnight or with a new politician...it takes money and social services. It's what I expect my tax dollars to do. In Lane County they've made real progress with the homeless problem. It's so much better than a few years ago but they got funding and cleaned up the ghetto camps putting up shelters and campsites out of the city and away from the business district.
 

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