What's the future for Martell Webster?

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jlprk said:
Pritchard has no trading ability, but Paul Allen's $3M payoff sometimes motivates another owner to trade. We recently discovered that he traded Sergio with an exchange of 2nd round picks by including a few million. So I'd say that Webster will go for the same. That's all Pritchard is capable of.
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Yeah, KP could NEVER pull off a trade like Steve Blake and Travis for Markus Camby.

Go Blazers
 
MIXUM said:
i think camby leaves in all honesty.
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Are you sure? Blazers courtside talked about this stating that Joel is out at least 9-12 months which puts him this late in the season next year. Oden could be back at the beginning of the 2010-2011 season. We need a backup Center and I think Camby for now is the key. I don't think KP wants to sign Howard again for that position. Camby is still a well known player and I think KP doesn't want to let Camby go.

I'm thinking Webster is a mixed bag right now as Batum is taking the spotlight this season.
 
BLAZER PROPHET said:
It's a fair debate. Do we want an undersized Bayless that is a weak defender, but can push the ball and really get to the rim, or a much stronger Webster that can defend better and shoot well. I can see the pros & cons, but in the end I'll take Martel.
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I think that what Martel brings is less of an issue for this team, honestly.

We have our SF of the future in Batum, we are still in a transition to find the PGotF (tm) - and while there is a good chance it will never be Bayless - it is still too early to tell - and it might be him.

Webster, is at most, a backup for limited minutes in a position that we have other players that can man it for short periods of time (be it Rudy or Roy), while Bayless is at most the PG/Combo Guard that can play next to Roy, guard the opposing PG and help bring the ball up-court when the Miller era is over.

From a position need, Bayless is a much better fit, from a offensive production pov - so far, it is Bayless by a landslide, and Bayless has played less than 20% of the minutes that Webster played in his career - it is a lot more likely to have him become better, more consistent than it is to expect the same from Webster at this point.
 
Shooter said:
Huh? In the last game, he made two of the best passes I've ever seen for wide open baskets. That's a skill that we can really use on this team.
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I agree! i thought that there were three plays in arow or very colse together in the Toronto game that were supurb. Did yo see the smile on his face as he did that? He looked very much like he looked in Europe. If we play a quicker hitting and a good rebounding game or get steals he will be very Gianobli like.

On Webster if we can get something for he and Priz I think we can get a good player of better caliber for him. However we may want to just save the money depending on the new CBA.
 
jlprk said:
Pritchard has no trading ability, but Paul Allen's $3M payoff sometimes motivates another owner to trade. We recently discovered that he traded Sergio with an exchange of 2nd round picks by including a few million. So I'd say that Webster will go for the same. That's all Pritchard is capable of.
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this wasn't a recent discovery, we discussed it the day it happened right here.

What makes you think Sergio had/has any trade value? My understanding was that they basically covered his salary for this season which (of course) Portland was already on the hook for. Clearing him from their cap gave them another Mil or so of wiggle room to play with in Free Agency where Portland was able to both screw Utah and ultimately land a starting PG. At 23 and quite likely his final year in the league, SR was going to be on the end of the Blazer bench rotting away which would have been a negative situation for everyone. Now having failed to garner a rotation role on two of the worst clubs in the league he can go back to Europe knowing it wasn't just Portland. Pritchard was also obviously targeting Pendergraph who should enjoy a solid backup Big career. Complaining about that move in retrospect seems odd as Portland came out better for it.

STOMP
 
ironcrotch said:
He's just not a starting SF as we all thought he was.
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Actually, we all didn't think that. It's been an open debate, with some of us pointing out that Webster has been reserve quality from the start and hasn't improved his production at all over the years he's been playing. His defense might have improved slightly.

I think he's an okay, not exceptional, reserve. If we assume that he'll never improve (which, given his years of stagnation, now seems the likeliest case), then he's a bit overpaid. He's paid like a good reserve. But the contract made sense at the time...with even tiny improvements, Webster would have been worth his deal. Even without them, it's far from an albatross contract.

If Webster is traded, it'll be as a throw-in. I don't think any other team will specifically target him. If the opportunity to include him as a bit part of a more significant deal doesn't come along, I think Portland will have him back up Batum until his contract is up and let him depart as a free agent.
 
Webster is looking like a real bad fit for this team.

He isn't good enough to start, but his skill set is not really right for a reserve. He is not an energy player - he needs extended minutes to get in sync. If his shot isn't falling, the rest of his game tends to deflate. He is also not a guy you can call on when the offense is struggling, as he can't create for himself.
 
oldmangrouch said:
Webster is looking like a real bad fit for this team.

He isn't good enough to start, but his skill set is not really right for a reserve. He is not an energy player - he needs extended minutes to get in sync. If his shot isn't falling, the rest of his game tends to deflate. He is also not a guy you can call on when the offense is struggling, as he can't create for himself.
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In other words he's probably more like the small forward version of Channing Frye?
 
This is really simple. Martell could easily be a much better player than he is now, but he makes the game difficult for himself. Everybody knows Martell can shoot. But when it comes to going to the hoop, he always goes in and tries some sort of cute shot off the window or a wraparound reverse, when he could just dunk it. That is the whole reason he has never matured into a well rounded player. We just got rid of another player who did such things, his name was Outlaw, who also went out of his way to make the game more difficult for himself.

Just make the easy play.
 
oldguy said:
Yeah, KP could NEVER pull off a trade like Steve Blake and Travis for Markus Camby.
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Pritchard gave $3M for 2 months of Camby, plus 2 of our top 6 or 7 guys last year. No other owner is willing to pay $3M every single trade, so the praise should go to Paul Allen, not Pritchard.

Without the $3M every single trade (even to unload Sergio!), Pritchard has no trades on his record. (Maybe Von Wafer and Juan Dixon, but I mean real trades.) And even with the $3M advantage, Pritchard has no trades on his record acquiring anyone who has started for the other team, except now Camby, whom he got only because of his expiring contract. He has yet to make one trade for a starter who lasts, despite the $3M advantage.
 
STOMP said:
What makes you think Sergio had/has any trade value?
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Sergio would have had value, had Pritchard recogized his real talent level and traded him after his rookie year, when other teams were impressed with him. But Pritchard runs a car into the ground before trading it, because he's always unsure.

But okay, let's say Sergio had no trade value when Pritchard finally got around to doing something. If true, then Pritchard basically bought the Pendergraph pick for $3M and a #2 pick, and threw in someone with zero trade value.

Pritchard routinely buys late 1st round picks for $3M (and gets the praise instead of Paul Allen's generosity, when many owners are slobbering over that money and will cough up a pick). This time, Pritchard paid the usual $3M bribe and a #2 pick for only a 2nd round pick, Pendergraph. Why didn't he buy an earlier pick with it as usual? And if Pendergraph is so good (I've seen nothing special for a 2nd rounder), remember that we paid the same as 4 $800K Juwan Howards. Instead of wasting money on inexperience, especially 2nd round picks who will never start, why not spend it on experienced starters.

STOMP said:
Pritchard was also obviously targeting Pendergraph who should enjoy a solid backup Big career. Complaining about that move in retrospect seems odd as Portland came out better for it.
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He'll last a few years, but I wouldn't call that a solid career. Cunningham will last longer. And I didn't complain about Sergio and #38 being traded for #31. What I said was that Pritchard pays $3M to make every trade happen, even the trivial Sergio trade. So to satisfy your saying that Sergio had zero value, I have now twisted the trade to try to justify the $3M by saying that Pritchard really bought Pendergraph for $3M, and threw in Sergio. Which as I argued, still wasn't worth it. And even if it was, it doesn't negate my original point--that Pritchard lacks the talent to make trades without the crutch of Paul Allen's $3M. So that when he trades Webster, he'll get about the same as he did for Sergio.
 
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jlprk said:
Sergio would have had value, had Pritchard recogized his real talent level and traded him after his rookie year, when other teams were impressed with him. But Pritchard runs a car into the ground before trading it, because he's always unsure.

But okay, let's say Sergio had no trade value when Pritchard finally got around to doing something. If true, then Pritchard basically bought the Pendergraph pick for $3M and a #2 pick, and threw in someone with zero trade value.
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If only KP were more sure of himself he might be batting 1000% eh?
Pritchard routinely buys late 1st round picks for $3M (and gets the praise instead of Paul Allen's generosity, when many owners are slobbering over that money and will cough up a pick).
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he's done this a grand total of one time in 3 drafts... this is routinely? The Sergio acquisition was done by Steve Patterson.
This time, Pritchard paid the usual $3M bribe and a #2 pick for only a 2nd round pick, Pendergraph. Why didn't he buy an earlier pick with it as usual? And if Pendergraph is so good (I've seen nothing special for a 2nd rounder), remember that we paid the same as 4 $800K Juwan Howards. Instead of wasting money on inexperience, especially 2nd round picks who will never start, why not spend it on experienced starters.
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Again, the financial maneuvering that was done in this case was not just a linear replace this guy with another move. It affected the Millsap offer (which screwed a rival) and ultimately helped them land a starting PG. I like the Pendergraph acquisition and think he'll be a quality reserve in coming years... I value quality players even those that don't start. Instead of rushing to judgement after an injury plagued rookie season, I'm for seeing what he'll do year two
He'll last a few years, but I wouldn't call that a solid career. Cunningham will last longer. And I didn't complain about Sergio and #38 being traded for #31. What I said was that Pritchard pays $3M to make every trade happen, even the trivial Sergio trade. So to satisfy your saying that Sergio had zero value, I have now twisted the trade to try to justify the $3M by saying that Pritchard really bought Pendergraph for $3M, and threw in Sergio. Which as I argued, still wasn't worth it. And even if it was, it doesn't negate my original point--that Pritchard lacks the talent to make trades without the crutch of Paul Allen's $3M. So that when he trades Webster, he'll get about the same as he did for Sergio.
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Please link me a report that they paid the Kings 3M in this deal... I've not read that. What the multiple articles I've read stated is that cash considerations were included which reportedly covered his salary which is 1.5M this season.

if only KP were more sure of himself and clairvoyant like some internet posters :rolleyes2:

STOMP
 
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STOMP said:
he's done this a grand total of one time in 3 drafts... this is routinely? The Sergio acquisition was done by Steve Patterson.
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I'm pretty sure we dropped down cash for the Rudy pick, along with taking on James Jones. We dropped down cash for the Kopponen pick from Philadelphia. And we bought N.O.'s pick which ultimately brought us Batum. And the 2006 draft was said to be run primarily by KP, with the acquisitions of Roy and LMA. I would assume he wouldn't just handle the top of the draft, so I would say the Sergio acquisition was on him as well, which makes 4 times that we have made a swap of cash for a pick.
 
I wouldn't hold it against KP that he frequently buys picks with PA's money. PA is pretty active in the draft and loves to throw around money for something he likes. KP would be a bad GM if he did not use our financial advantage.

The so called pritchslap trades are not these, though. No one went into 'in KP we trust' mode because he bought Sergio and Koponen. It was the Roy/Aldridge trades and the Bayless trade. He clearly has a good eye for talent in the draft -- of course he's not 100% (see Pendergraph instead of Blair, Claver over whatshisname on the Kings -- though jury's still out on that one), but no one is, the draft is a crapshoot.
 
so now oden "hopes" to be ready for the start of next season lol

can we just cut ties with that gimp now and just admit failure
 
axs88 said:
The so called pritchslap trades are not these, though. No one went into 'in KP we trust' mode because he bought Sergio and Koponen. It was the Roy/Aldridge trades and the Bayless trade.
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And maneuvering to ace San Antonio out of Batum.
 
Minstrel said:
And maneuvering to ace San Antonio out of Batum.
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I think so too, but I didn't include it since he did buy that pick from NO. Did he go on to swap that one for a pick a little higher? I can't seem to remember.
 
axs88 said:
I think so too, but I didn't include it since he did buy that pick from NO. Did he go on to swap that one for a pick a little higher? I can't seem to remember.
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The pick he bought, but the pick wasn't high enough...it was one pick behind San Antonio. Houston was one pick ahead of San Antonio and wanted Arthur, not Batum. Knowing that San Antonio wanted Batum, not Arthur, Pritchard convinced Morey that he could select Arthur for Houston if Houston would select Batum for Portland, and Portland would throw in an early second round pick for Houston's troubles (and, as a couple of benefits, Houston would get Arthur at a cheaper draft slot and their division rival wouldn't get the player they wanted).

End result is Houston got who they wanted, Portland got who they wanted and San Antonio was left in the cold.
 
RR7 said:
I'm pretty sure we dropped down cash for the Rudy pick, along with taking on James Jones. We dropped down cash for the Kopponen pick from Philadelphia. And we bought N.O.'s pick which ultimately brought us Batum. And the 2006 draft was said to be run primarily by KP, with the acquisitions of Roy and LMA. I would assume he wouldn't just handle the top of the draft, so I would say the Sergio acquisition was on him as well, which makes 4 times that we have made a swap of cash for a pick.
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the Roy Aldridge Sergio draft was run by Patterson... KP headed the targeting of talents but Patterson made the actual deals/trades. KP has stated this himself saying that he was watching "in awe" as Patterson worked the phones making the deals. Rudy's pickup was the one I was recalling. Koponen was for a 2nd (#42) and unspecified cash. Batum was traded for 2 picks not cash but you're right that they'd earlier bought that selection from NO.

so that makes 2 times that a pick was outright bought by KP... I don't think that constitutes "routinely"

STOMP
 
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KP bought NO's pick, which was then used to trade for Batum, along with a second rounder. That's using cash to get a pick. That or a worthless argument in semantics. Koppo, Rudy. We can agree to disagree on the 2006 draft. Ignoring that year, 3 times in 3 drafts. Basically every year he does it. That's routinely, I would say.
 
STOMP said:
the Roy Aldridge Sergio draft was run by Patterson... KP headed the targeting of talents but Patterson made the actual deals/trades. KP has stated this himself saying that he was watching "in awe" as Patterson worked the phones making the deals. Rudy's pickup was the one I was recalling. Koponen for a 2nd and unspecified cash. Batum was traded for 2 picks not cash but you're right that they'd earlier bought that selection from NO.

so that makes 2 times that a pick was outright bought by KP... I don't think that constitutes "routinely"

STOMP
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If you're not going to include Koppo, because we included a 2nd, might as well not include Rudy, since we took on James Jones. Regardless, he has routinely used cash in deals in the draft.


Edit: Sorry, i see the initial discussion wasn't just including cash in a deal generally, but 3 million to buy a 1st specifically. My bad.
 
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RR7 said:
If you're not going to include Koppo, because we included a 2nd, might as well not include Rudy, since we took on James Jones. Regardless, he has routinely used cash in deals in the draft.
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I was responding to a statement that KP routinely spends 3M to buy late round 1sts. As far as I'm aware this is only even partially true in the case of the NO pick and the Rudy selection. Though the cash considerations weren't ever spelled out in the PK trade, I really doubt that it was anything close to 3M

STOMP
 
STOMP said:
I was responding to a statement that KP routinely spends 3M to buy late round 1sts. As far as I'm aware this is only even partially true in the case of the NO pick and the Rudy selection. Though the cash considerations weren't ever spelled out in the PK trade, I really doubt that it was anything close to 3M

STOMP
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Edited my post above, sorry. Saw the specific mention of 3 million, not just cash included.
 
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