What's your final move?

[Pinwheel1]

No moves are happening before the trade deadline anyway.
Throw Hendo in the trade too, i don't care for him.

Cousins is better than Marsha. All we need after acquiring boogie is to find a replacement for Wesley and we have a winning team again.

If Cousins truly is better than LMA then they will be playoff contention by the break and won't be trading him. If they aren't with this this 2 deep, then either they were either hit with injuries, or Boogie is not as good as we all think.

Rondo, Collison,
Belinelli, McLemore,
Gay, Casspi
Cauley-Stein, Reggie Evans,
Cousins, Koufos

 

[Draco]

If Cousins truly is better than LMA then they will be playoff contention by the break and won't be trading him. If they aren't with this this 2 deep, then either they were either hit with injuries, or Boogie is not as good as we all think.

Rondo, Collison,
Belinelli, McLemore,
Gay, Casspi
Cauley-Stein, Reggie Evans,
Cousins, Koufos

Take Cousins off that team and its worse than every other team in the NBA except maybe the 6ers.

 

[blue9]

If Cousins truly is better than LMA then they will be playoff contention by the break and won't be trading him. If they aren't with this this 2 deep, then either they were either hit with injuries, or Boogie is not as good as we all think.

Rondo, Collison,
Belinelli, McLemore,
Gay, Casspi
Cauley-Stein, Reggie Evans,
Cousins, Koufos

Meh - that roster doesn't scream "PLAYOFFS" to me, and it doesn't have anything to do with Boogie. Only he and Rondo are legit starters.
Cousins is a much better player than LMA, but he's always been in Crapramento. Swap Boogie and LBJ and I think LBJ struggles to get that team anything better than 7th seed.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Meh - that roster doesn't scream "PLAYOFFS" to me, and it doesn't have anything to do with Boogie. Only he and Rondo are legit starters.
Cousins is a much better player than LMA, but he's always been in Crapramento. Swap Boogie and LBJ and I think LBJ struggles to get that team anything better than 7th seed.

I don't think you guys respect Cauley-Stein enough. He and Boogie on the front line will be a very tough match up, assuming Cousins is BETTER than LMA. No way I can agree that Rudy Gay is not a legit starter. Did you watch his 40 point effort last year against us?

That just leaves either Belinelli or McLemore to spread the floor and let Rono do what he does best and dominate the ball and set everyone up. I said last year Rondo would be a bad fit in Dallas, but he is perfect for Sacramento who needs his type of skill set.

Again if Boogie is really better than LMA, then he should be able to carry this team offensively with Gay's help.
No more excuses for him. Plus I am only talking playoff contention. You don't think they can compete with Utah and Phoenix?

 

[Blazers Roy]

If Cousins truly is better than LMA then they will be playoff contention by the break and won't be trading him. If they aren't with this this 2 deep, then either they were either hit with injuries, or Boogie is not as good as we all think.

Rondo, Collison,
Belinelli, McLemore,
Gay, Casspi
Cauley-Stein, Reggie Evans,
Cousins, Koufos

Your theory is lacking.
Rondo is shit compared to Dame.
Belinelli is one level below Wes.
Gay is gay. j\k, Gay is a good player but his analytics suggest he is shit for a winning team as well.
CS+Reggie Evans are not as good as last year's Mayers+Lopez.

There's no reason for them to be in playoff contention because their build is terrible.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Your theory is lacking.
Rondo is shit compared to Dame.
Belinelli is one level below Wes.
Gay is gay. j\k, Gay is a good player but his analytics suggest he is shit for a winning team as well.
CS+Reggie Evans are not as good as last year's Mayers+Lopez.

There's no reason for them to be in playoff contention because their build is terrible.

Why are you comparing them to last years Blazers? You should be comparing them to this year's Blazers, Pelicans, Jazz and Suns. Spots 7 and 8 are wide open. And for a team with the best center in basketball (or at least worthy of trading half our team for ) they should be right in the mix.

The Pelicans might be a step above, but at least the 8th spot is wide open.

 

[blue9]

I don't think you guys respect Cauley-Stein enough. He and Boogie on the front line will be a very tough match up, assuming Cousins is BETTER than LMA. No way I can agree that Rudy Gay is not a legit starter. Did you watch his 40 point effort last year against us?

That just leaves either Belinelli or McLemore to spread the floor and let Rono do what he does best and dominate the ball and set everyone up. I said last year Rondo would be a bad fit in Dallas, but he is perfect for Sacramento who needs his type of skill set.

Again if Boogie is really better than LMA, then he should be able to carry this team offensively with Gay's help.
No more excuses for him. Plus I am only talking playoff contention. You don't think they can compete with Utah and Phoenix?

I will admit I know nothing of Cauley-Stein (I don't follow NCAA). But I think you're overlooking the dysfunction at the top of the organization. Even IF a rookie is a legit starter, and even if you want to consider Gay a good starter, that team is a pile of crap that's made worse by management and ownership. Rondo and Cousins is a very strong PG/C duo, and perhaps they've got a great PF (?) too, in C-S. But beyond that, blech. There's nobody outside of Cousins and Gay (and C-S?) who can score. People talk about Lillard being the only guy on our team who can score, but I have far more faith in Henderson, Plumlee, CJ, Meyers, and Davis to score the ball than anyone on SAC outisde of Cousins/Gay. Now, it is entirely possible that Rondo will be able to create good scoring opportunities for his teammates, but I still think the roster is a hot pile of garbage - nobody other than Rondo/Cousins do anything well.

 

[Pinwheel1]

I will admit I know nothing of Cauley-Stein (I don't follow NCAA). But I think you're overlooking the dysfunction at the top of the organization. Even IF a rookie is a legit starter, and even if you want to consider Gay a good starter, that team is a pile of crap that's made worse by management and ownership. Rondo and Cousins is a very strong PG/C duo, and perhaps they've got a great PF (?) too, in C-S. But beyond that, blech. There's nobody outside of Cousins and Gay (and C-S?) who can score. People talk about Lillard being the only guy on our team who can score, but I have far more faith in Henderson, Plumlee, CJ, Meyers, and Davis to score the ball than anyone on SAC outisde of Cousins/Gay. Now, it is entirely possible that Rondo will be able to create good scoring opportunities for his teammates, but I still think the roster is a hot pile of garbage - nobody other than Rondo/Cousins do anything well.

We may be getting off track here. I am not trying to make a case for Sacramento. My point is questioning if Cousins is worth trading half our team for. If he is then he should be able to get his team in playoff contention with that cast of teammates. George Karl may be a nut job sometimes, but his track record for turning teams around is pretty good.

If Cousins is that good, and they are in contention, then they won't trade him to us.

If they are not in contention for the 8th spot, then can he help our team (Minus all the players/picks that were suggested we trade him for) The answer IMO is........ not for a couple of years.

 

[Blazers Roy]

Why are you comparing them to last years Blazers? You should be comparing them to this year's Blazers, Pelicans, Jazz and Suns. Spots 7 and 8 are wide open. And for a team with the best center in basketball (or at least worthy of trading half our team for ) they should be right in the mix.

The Pelicans might be a step above, but at least the 8th spot is wide open.

Very well then,

Dame is a better pg than Rondo in a league packed with athletic points who can shoot the ball and he is a better 2nd star than anything Sac town has to offer. Having 2 legit winners\Stars on your team is one of the most basic keys for success in this league.

Our starting lineup will be:

DMC
Mayers
Crabbe
CJ
Dame

That's 4 guys who can shoot from deep and from the FT line, Kings don't have that. With the Kings current build you can give Rondo a few open steps around the arc because he won't shoot it from outside, you can send Rondo to the line because he's a poor shooter from the line, you can guard Bellineli tight because all he wants to do is shoot it from outside (not a triple threat like CJ), you can probably cheat off CS because he's a noob (and we saw what happened to teams who cheated off Legend last season).

All those things will create pressure around DMC and playing with two stats padders and a coach who doesn't like him won't help things over there.

I don't think you can say that if DMC fails at Sacramento then it means he will fail in Portland as well. It's a very different environment.

Worst case scenario we end the season in the lottery with the 2nd best center in the league, top 4 PG, legit 6th+7th man on the bench...that's a very good place to start from.

 

[Blazers Roy]

"I wonder if i should trade half of my team for Kevin Granett. Al Jefferson is showing so much promise."


Danny Ainge, Never.

 

[blue9]

We may be getting off track here. I am not trying to make a case for Sacramento. My point is questioning if Cousins is worth trading half our team for.

Ah, well that is a different story. I don't know if I'd trade that many pieces for one player. I think we could get the job done by spending less as long as SAC isn't in the hunt around the trade deadline. But then I'm also hopeful that several of our players will show something positive during the first part of the season to either (a) increase their trade value, or (b) at least let us negotiate from a position of power.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Very well then,

Dame is a better pg than Rondo in a league packed with athletic points who can shoot the ball and he is a better 2nd star than anything Sac town has to offer. Having 2 legit winners\Stars on your team is one of the most basic keys for success in this league.

Our starting lineup will be:

DMC
Mayers
Crabbe
CJ
Dame

That's 4 guys who can shoot from deep and from the FT line, Kings don't have that. With the Kings current build you can give Rondo a few open steps around the arc because he won't shoot it from outside, you can send Rondo to the line because he's a poor shooter from the line, you can guard Bellineli tight because all he wants to do is shoot it from outside (not a triple threat like CJ), you can probably cheat off CS because he's a noob (and we saw what happened to teams who cheated off Legend last season).

All those things will create pressure around DMC and playing with two stats padders and a coach who doesn't like him won't help things over there.

I don't think you can say that if DMC fails at Sacramento then it means he will fail in Portland as well. It's a very different environment.

Worst case scenario we end the season in the lottery with the 2nd best center in the league, top 4 PG, legit 6th+7th man on the bench...that's a very good place to start from.

I agree with some of what you say. I like our lineup with Cousins and I am sure we could add to the bench over time. I am not completely opposed to it. But you are suggesting a lot for him when he has not won anything.

And I still think you are selling Sacramento a little short. They have some good defenders. Boogie, CS, Evans, Collison, Rondo and McLemore are all solid. If they get improvement from McLemore on offense to go along with Gay, Rondo, and Boogie......they will be right there fighting for the 8th spot. George's free flowing offense always seems to work.

 

[magnifier661]

Why are you comparing them to last years Blazers? You should be comparing them to this year's Blazers, Pelicans, Jazz and Suns. Spots 7 and 8 are wide open. And for a team with the best center in basketball (or at least worthy of trading half our team for ) they should be right in the mix.

The Pelicans might be a step above, but at least the 8th spot is wide open.

That's the thing I was looking at as well. There were 3 teams that were the bottom 3 teams for 7th-9th seed (Dallas, Nola, and OKC). Portland obviously isn't as good as it was last season and OKC is obviously going to be much better. Dallas, also took a big step back. Nola will most likely be the 7th seed, while Dallas, Portland, Utah and Phoenix fight for 8th.

 

[magnifier661]

I agree with some of what you say. I like our lineup with Cousins and I am sure we could add to the bench over time. I am not completely opposed to it. But you are suggesting a lot for him when he has not won anything.

And I still think you are selling Sacramento a little short. They have some good defenders. Boogie, CS, Evans, Collison, Rondo and McLemore are all solid. If they get improvement from McLemore on offense to go along with Gay, Rondo, and Boogie......they will be right there fighting for the 8th spot. George's free flowing offense always seems to work.

Remember when Washington had C-Web, Sheed and Juan Howard? They didn't make the playoffs but had a ton of talent. Then C-Web was traded to Sac and they rocked. Sometimes the change of scenery can do wonders for a player. It could be possible that could be the case with Boogie

 

[Draco]

I don't think you guys respect Cauley-Stein enough. He and Boogie on the front line will be a very tough match up, assuming Cousins is BETTER than LMA. No way I can agree that Rudy Gay is not a legit starter. Did you watch his 40 point effort last year against us?

That just leaves either Belinelli or McLemore to spread the floor and let Rono do what he does best and dominate the ball and set everyone up. I said last year Rondo would be a bad fit in Dallas, but he is perfect for Sacramento who needs his type of skill set.

Again if Boogie is really better than LMA, then he should be able to carry this team offensively with Gay's help.
No more excuses for him. Plus I am only talking playoff contention. You don't think they can compete with Utah and Phoenix?

Cauley Stein is a rookie; even Wiggins barely rated as a better player than Alonzo Gee last year. Rookies don't produce in a way that leads to wins. Wiggins looked phenomenal but only through the lens of what we think can be his future performance. Cauley Stein will be as valuable as Bismack Biyombo on offense and will need time to learn the NBA game defensively.

Gay is solid, I like him better than most, but on a good team he's a role player. He shouldn't be far and away a teams second best player. Belineli is one of the worst defenders in the NBA and provides little offensively besides three point shooting. He's similar to Luke Babbitt. Rondo hasn't played well in 5 years. He shoots free throws worse than DeAndre Jordan, no longer has the athleticism from his younger years, and is worthless if the ball is going to be in DeMarcus or Gay hands. He was a bad fit in Boston the last few years and I expect this to be worse. My only question is do they cut him during the season or is anther desperate club willing to trade for him?

McLemore is still young and has upside but isn't a productive player yet. I do actually like Koufus as a role player but him and Boogie can't play together. The locker room is a mess with George Karl and Boogie not getting along, plus a middling owner who wants his coach to follow his youth girls teams game plans where they cherry picked with 4 on 5. Look it up I'm dead serious.

Boogie is an effective all star, voted by coaches above Dame last year and if they get some lucky breaks maybe they can be a middle of the road team. I don't see any way they make the playoffs though; and they've traded away all sorts of picks for these marginal free agents. Put Boogie on any other NBA roster and it has a better outlook than the Kings. The rest of that roster is terrible.

 

[santeesioux]

The one thing I can say about the Kings is they will be fun to watch, whether they're good or a trainwreck, and I'm very glad I get their games on Direct Tv locally without having to pay for LP.

 

[selloutking]

Remember when Washington had C-Web, Sheed and Juan Howard? They didn't make the playoffs but had a ton of talent. Then C-Web was traded to Sac and they rocked. Sometimes the change of scenery can do wonders for a player. It could be possible that could be the case with Boogie

man, if dame could pass and handle like JayW did ... with boogie it would be top notch

 

[Pinwheel1]

Cauley Stein is a rookie; even Wiggins barely rated as a better player than Alonzo Gee last year. Rookies don't produce in a way that leads to wins. Wiggins looked phenomenal but only through the lens of what we think can be his future performance. Cauley Stein will be as valuable as Bismack Biyombo on offense and will need time to learn the NBA game defensively.

Gay is a solid, I like him better than most, but on a good team he's a role player. He shouldn't be far and away a teams second best player

No need for Cauley Stein to shoot when on the court with Cousins. That's why I think he fits in well with him. But he is very versatile on D and a very good offensive rebounder. I thinks those skills translate a lot quicker than offense skills for rookies.

As for Gay, he is not on a good team. We are talking about a team contending for the 8th spot. Compared to the other teams they will be competing against for that spot, as a 2nd scorer he compares pretty good.

Again my point is not to give props to the Kings, but rather point out that if Cousins is as good as we think and they are in contention, then they won't trade him. And by contention I mean 9th or 10 and striking distance from 8th. I think they are that good with a healthy team.

But if they are not close to the 8th spot, I have to question if Boogie is worth trading Vonleh, Plumlee, Henderson, Aminu, Harkless, Davis and a first rounder for. Because if he comes to a team decimated by the trade and we fail to make the playoffs for two years......will he even stick around when he becomes a FA?

 

[BonesJones]

I agree with some of what you say. I like our lineup with Cousins and I am sure we could add to the bench over time. I am not completely opposed to it. But you are suggesting a lot for him when he has not won anything.

Wed offer a bunch of players who haven't done anything. I hate that logic. That's like saying in 2010 you didn't want Lebron leading your team because he didn't have a ring yet and you were hoping for a championship.

 

[BonesJones]

No need for Cauley Stein to shoot when on the court with Cousins. That's why I think he fits in well with him. But he is very versatile on D and a very good offensive rebounder. I thinks those skills translate a lot quicker than offense skills for rookies.

As for Gay, he is not on a good team. We are talking about a team contending for the 8th spot. Compared to the other teams they will be competing against for that spot, as a 2nd scorer he compares pretty good.

Again my point is not to give props to the Kings, but rather point out that if Cousins is as good as we think and they are in contention, then they won't trade him. And by contention I mean 9th or 10 and striking distance from 8th. I think they are that good with a healthy team.

But if they are not close to the 8th spot, I have to question if Boogie is worth trading Vonleh, Plumlee, Henderson, Aminu, Harkless, Davis and a first rounder for. Because if he comes to a team decimated by the trade and we fail to make the playoffs for two years......will he even stick around when he becomes a FA?

you're continuing to fail to acknowledge how the players around him will make things tough on DMC. You can't look at individual talents and say "well that guys talented for the 2nd best player" and stuff like that. In reality its like taking the prettiest piece from 10 different puzzle boxes and trying to fit them together in a perfect triangle.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Wed offer a bunch of players who haven't done anything. I hate that logic. That's like saying in 2010 you didn't want Lebron leading your team because he didn't have a ring yet and you were hoping for a championship.

No that is NOTHING like Lebron in 2010. By that time Cleveland had made the playoffs 5 straight years and also won the Eastern conference.

I don't blame it all on Cousins because he is a center in a guard/wing's league. But is trading 5-7 players for a center worth it? He is better than Kiki Vandeweghe, but still........

 

[Orion Bailey]

No that is NOTHING like Lebron in 2010. By that time Cleveland had made the playoffs 5 straight years and also won the Eastern conference.

I don't blame it all on Cousins because he is a center in a guard/wing's league. But is trading 5-7 players for a center worth it? He is better than Kiki Vandeweghe, but still........

That's too many of our potentials to give up for a potential career headcase.

 

[Draco]

The Sacramento-Philly trade really hurts any chances of us or another team acquiring Cousins. The reason a team trades away their only star is to rebuild through youth; and you do that with yes talent back in a trade but also with your own team now sucking and getting a top draft pick.

But the 6ers traded for rights on 3 potential top Kings first round picks so Sacramento won't have that incentive to rebuild.

 

[blue9]

I don't blame it all on Cousins because he is a center in a guard/wing's league. But is trading 5-7 players for a center worth it?

To my knowledge there's only been one person who suggested we trade half the team for him. I think the rest of us who want Cousins want to trade a different (smaller) package for him.

 

[magnifier661]

 

[Pinwheel1]

To my knowledge there's only been one person who suggested we trade half the team for him. I think the rest of us who want Cousins want to trade a different (smaller) package for him.

True, but all of my posts on the subject were in response to that one person's trade scenario.

 

[Blazers Roy]

But is trading 5-7 players for a center worth it? He is better than Kiki Vandeweghe, but still........

Yes, i think so.
How many players do you need really? we only need 6 talented players + hardworking guys\specialists off the bench.
Teams with a long rotation of 9 10ppg players are usually destined to make 1st round exits.

I'm suggesting we sacrifice our potential to be good in order to be great. It's a gamble but it's a gamble with great value.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Yes, i think so.
How many players do you need really? we only need 6 talented players + hardworking guys\specialists off the bench.
Teams with a long rotation of 9 10ppg players are usually destined to make 1st round exits.

I'm suggesting we sacrifice our potential to be good in order to be great. It's a gamble but it's a gamble with great value.

I think you need a solid 9 or 10 players to make it through the long season. However I am not philosophically opposed to a lopsided trade for a very good player. It's easy to find replacements for average players. Even easier if you have a Lebron on the team where vets will flock to.

The gamble of of course comes with Cousins himself. With a bunch of savvy vets he would be awesome on any team. But that would not be the scenario here.

 

[Blazers Roy]

I think you need a solid 9 or 10 players to make it through the long season. However I am not philosophically opposed to a lopsided trade for a very good player. It's easy to find replacements for average players. Even easier if you have a Lebron on the team where vets will flock to.

The gamble of of course comes with Cousins himself. With a bunch of savvy vets he would be awesome on any team. But that would not be the scenario here.

Stop thinking about Lebron for a second, think about 08' Celtics instead: They had Pierce and they had a lot of young talent around him...so they took a chance and traded some great prospects in Green,Jefferson etc for an aging Ray Allen and KG (who was also known as a 1st class asshole), then they patched some veterans and young bloods on that trio and that team dominated the league.

You have to take a chance at a great duo\trio sometime, you can't expect 4 prospects to turn out great and take you to the promised land.

 

[Blazinaway]

final move is check mate