What's your final move?

[Blazers Roy]

@Blazers Roy look man. I think Boogie is an amazing talent. If he didn't have such a personal problem with attitude, all 30 teams would throw the world to try and get him.

His problem is he's 1a talent, with 5th string mentality. When you give away 5 players (good potential players to boot), that's for 1a talent with 1a mental fortitude. There is a level of commitment a franchise must give to the already existing players. You find the leadership on the court that will put their team on their back, over any obstacle, and carry the leadership role to the rest of his teammates.

I don't see that with Boogie. In fact, I see him willing to throw his team under the bus because he's not happy there. He has the making of a player that wants a successful team but unwilling to carry the load to make his team relevant enough for other players to want to join him.

We have that with Dame, and he has enough of a supporting cast to lure other players in. I would absolutely love Boogie to be a Blazer, but not at the cost of handcuffing our organization and putting him as a 1a player. I would love him to be our third option player that evolves to 1a when he grows up. He's not there yet and I don't want him scaring off the other potential players in process of his growth.

I don't disagree with you, that's why i still call it a gamble.

What about Shaq? was he really a leader with high work ethic? what about his maturity back then? didn't he throw Orlando AND the Lakers under the bus because he was not happy?

I think that after this summer we realized that we have to work with what we got. We have to make moves that other teams are afraid to do, we are not going to sign Lebron or Durant next summer, yet we need a Superstar, so we take the biggest thug available and hope for the best.

Everything is reversible, this move will not handicap us as much as you think it will. Remember we got Lillard for freakin' Gerald Wallace?

 

[magnifier661]

I don't disagree with you, that's why i still call it a gamble.

What about Shaq? was he really a leader with high work ethic? what about his maturity back then? didn't he throw Orlando AND the Lakers under the bus because he was not happy?

I think that after this summer we realized that we have to work with what we got. We have to make moves that other teams are afraid to do, we are not going to sign Lebron or Durant next summer, yet we need a Superstar, so we take the biggest thug available and hope for the best.

Everything is reversible, this move will not handicap us as much as you think it will. Remember we got Lillard for freakin' Gerald Wallace?

If I remember correctly, we got a protected pick. If they jumped up to top 3, we lose out on Dame. And just because we got lucky doesn't mean we can get lucky again.

We've had rabbits pulled out on 4 separate times the last 8 years. I'd rather bank on some sure bets. Remember we had a "sure bet" with Oden that went bad quick.

 

[BonesJones]

No. That is not even remotely close to what I said.

I love Cousin's game and I would like to have him on my team. I have said that numerous times. The question I have, is he worth the gamble to trade the 7 players mentioned in the original post I responded to.

I see both sides of the argument. I get that we need 2-3 stars to win it all and that lopsided trades are necessary to get there. I also understand that most of Cousins' immature behavior that he has been criticized in the media, can be attributed to his age. But still he has some red flags. And because of them, those 7 players might be too much to give up for him.

As for Rondo......as I said in my previous post, and as I said the day of his trade to Dallas.....he was a bad fit next to Monta. It made little sense. It was a desperate attempt to "add a third star" to the team.

But in Sacramento he does not have to worry about McLemore or Belinelli or even Gay dominating the ball. He just needs to play defense and get the ball to Cousins in a position where Boogie can score. And that is what Rondo does best. I think you will see Cousins benefit from having Rondo there, and because of it....... he will not be traded.

Rondo doesn't have to worry about Gay dominating the ball...?

 

[BonesJones]

Cousins gets an unfair bad rep. He's improved a ton mentally, but he was never getting tech's like Sheed, or beating up fans like Artest. Part of the problem is hes stuck in a shit hole organization with an asshat for a coach with dumbasses in the front office. Put him in a good eviroment with a leader like Dame and you have no problems.

 

[tlongII]

The final move is to Seattle.

 

[BonesJones]

The final move is to Seattle.

You've used this one before. Stfu.

 

[magnifier661]

Cousins gets an unfair bad rep. He's improved a ton mentally, but he was never getting tech's like Sheed, or beating up fans like Artest. Part of the problem is hes stuck in a shit hole organization with an asshat for a coach with dumbasses in the front office. Put him in a good eviroment with a leader like Dame and you have no problems.

Sheed was at least loyal to his teammates, the players you fight beside, which is the ONLY thing that matters. He had his fair share of knuckle head issues, but I don't remember many incidents where he threw tantrums on the court because he wasn't getting the ball.

Even Artest, with his insanely insane brain, was considered a good teammate. Boogie, on the other hand is anti-teammate. He screams at players during games, throws tantrums and publicly calls out management and coaches. He is the anti-leader.

It's a shame really because if he had the leadership skills, he would be a top 5 player (yes of all the current players in the NBA). He is not this person, therefor he is a huge risk.

Yes, he will eventually grow up just like Zach did, but how many years will it take him? How many players, coaches, management, fans will he run out in process?

Until I see true growth, I will never support gutting my team to get him. Sorry...

 

[BonesJones]

Sheed was at least loyal to his teammates, the players you fight beside, which is the ONLY thing that matters. He had his fair share of knuckle head issues, but I don't remember many incidents where he threw tantrums on the court because he wasn't getting the ball.

Even Artest, with his insanely insane brain, was considered a good teammate. Boogie, on the other hand is anti-teammate. He screams at players during games, throws tantrums and publicly calls out management and coaches. He is the anti-leader.

It's a shame really because if he had the leadership skills, he would be a top 5 player (yes of all the current players in the NBA). He is not this person, therefor he is a huge risk.

Yes, he will eventually grow up just like Zach did, but how many years will it take him? How many players, coaches, management, fans will he run out in process?

Until I see true growth, I will never support gutting my team to get him. Sorry...

show me something from the past year where he throws a teammate under the bus

 

[magnifier661]

show me something from the past year where he throws a teammate under the bus

Look bro, I get how you are all goo goo for Boogie. I'm goo goo about his game. I think he's a punk and child. If you really watch him during games like ur passion for him as a player, you wouldn't need to ask for proof.

The fact you are even asking shows how incredibly clouded your judgement is of him. Reminds me of the Zach supporters when we had the historical "Hoops Fam" era

 

[Blazers Roy]

Anyone remembers Sheed throwing a towel at Sabonis' face?

 

[blue9]

Anyone remembers Sheed throwing a towel at Sabonis' face?

I was just going to say that. And Sabas is my favorite player of ALL TIME, but I still like Sheed.
And remember CP3 screaming at Jordan? Does that mean CP3 isn't a leader?
I think too much is made of Boogie's "issues". I think he'd follow Dame's lead.

 

[illmatic99]

show me something from the past year where he throws a teammate under the bus

lol Boogie. I still like him and want him here, but he is kind of a child

 

[dviss1]

My final move this season would be Thibbs as defensive coordinator. Mark Price as shooting coach and Laimbeer as big man coach..then let them do their thing

Thibs can go get a HC job and make more than Stotts. He ain't coming here to be Stotts' assistant.

 

[dviss1]

lol Boogie. I still like him and want him here, but he is kind of a child

Wow that's BAD... Talk about quitting on your team.... Look at the score....

 

[magnifier661]

Anyone remembers Sheed throwing a towel at Sabonis' face?

That was the one of the things I remember. Or the time he threw the ball half court to hit a player as a joke. But the public comments by players were he's a great teammate and team player. I don't remember a single King that has said something like that about boogie.

 

[magnifier661]

But don't get me wrong. I would still love Boogie on this team. I just don't want to trade 5 potential players for him.

 

[blue9]

But don't get me wrong. I would still love Boogie on this team. I just don't want to trade 5 potential players for him.

I'm really hoping that Plumlee comes out strong. And that Harkless shows promise early. Package the two of them, along with a couple larger contracts (Kaman & Davis?), so that we can keep Meyers/Vonleh/CJ.
However, if they want to swap CJ for that guy all of you seem to want (blanking on his name...young SAC SG), that'd be fine.

Plumlee / Davis / Kaman / Harkless / CJ for Boogie / SG

Not sure if that would work salary-wise...we have so many players we can't trade for a while!

 

[Pinwheel1]

I'm really hoping that Plumlee comes out strong. And that Harkless shows promise early. Package the two of them, along with a couple larger contracts (Kaman & Davis?), so that we can keep Meyers/Vonleh/CJ.
However, if they want to swap CJ for that guy all of you seem to want (blanking on his name...young SAC SG), that'd be fine.

Plumlee / Davis / Kaman / Harkless / CJ for Boogie / SG

Not sure if that would work salary-wise...we have so many players we can't trade for a while!

McLemore.
Sounds like we will be paying a lot of attention to Sacramento games next year. It will be interesting to see how CJ and McLemore compare early on in the season.

 

[riverman]

Thibs can go get a HC job and make more than Stotts. He ain't coming here to be Stotts' assistant.

I think Thibbs is the best defensive coach in the league but not a good offensive head coach. Doesn't handle the media or post game interviews well at all. Together, I think you've got a championship duo..if it's about the money he wouldn't work at all, he's getting a head coaching salary from the Bulls until his contract is paid off. He'd lose that if he took a head coaching position but I'm not sure if that applies to an assistant coaching gig...

 

[magnifier661]

I'm really hoping that Plumlee comes out strong. And that Harkless shows promise early. Package the two of them, along with a couple larger contracts (Kaman & Davis?), so that we can keep Meyers/Vonleh/CJ.
However, if they want to swap CJ for that guy all of you seem to want (blanking on his name...young SAC SG), that'd be fine.

Plumlee / Davis / Kaman / Harkless / CJ for Boogie / SG

Not sure if that would work salary-wise...we have so many players we can't trade for a while!

I can part with 2 of the following players: CJ, Leonard, Plumlee, and Vonleh for Boogie. I would not want to part with more than that, unless it included McLemore

My dream scenario is to trade: CJ, Leonard, Plumlee, 2nd rounders and cap for Boogie and McLemore. I would like to keep Vonleh or Leonard, so Dame and Boogie has the proper spacing to do their damage. I actually think Vonleh is more valuable than Leonard, so I would try to convince Sac to take him.

 

[blue9]

I can part with 2 of the following players: CJ, Leonard, Plumlee, and Vonleh for Boogie. I would not want to part with more than that, unless it included McLemore

My dream scenario is to trade: CJ, Leonard, Plumlee, 2nd rounders and cap for Boogie and McLemore. I would like to keep Vonleh or Leonard, so Dame and Boogie has the proper spacing to do their damage. I actually think Vonleh is more valuable than Leonard, so I would try to convince Sac to take him.

As silly as it may seem, trading Leonard is (nearly) completely off the table for me - especially if we're acquiring Boogie. I'm far more hyped on Leonard than CJ. I think a Leonard/Boogie front court would be amazing. And then I want Vonleh to be the primary back-up. So if I'm making the trade I'm holding out Dame, Leonard, and Vonleh.

 

[magnifier661]

As silly as it may seem, trading Leonard is (nearly) completely off the table for me - especially if we're acquiring Boogie. I'm far more hyped on Leonard than CJ. I think a Leonard/Boogie front court would be amazing. And then I want Vonleh to be the primary back-up. So if I'm making the trade I'm holding out Dame, Leonard, and Vonleh.

I agree but I suspect Sac will want either Leonard or Vonleh for boogie. That's the piece I believe they think they could grow with. It's gonna take either one of those players to make a deal if it's ever available.

 

[blue9]

I agree but I suspect Sac will want either Leonard or Vonleh for boogie. That's the piece I believe they think they could grow with. It's gonna take either one of those players to make a deal if it's ever available.

I'd begrudgingly give them Vonleh and then take Plumlee off the table!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

As silly as it may seem, trading Leonard is (nearly) completely off the table for me - especially if we're acquiring Boogie. I'm far more hyped on Leonard than CJ. I think a Leonard/Boogie front court would be amazing. And then I want Vonleh to be the primary back-up. So if I'm making the trade I'm holding out Dame, Leonard, and Vonleh.

Why do we want a center who shoots the same percentage as Aldridge did, despite playing significantly closer to the rim? In fact, despite shooting (by far) the most long 2-point jumpshots in the league, Aldridge still had a higher 2-point percentage than Boogie. What exactly makes Boogie so great?

 

[magnifier661]

Why do we want a center who shoots the same percentage as Aldridge did, despite playing significantly closer to the rim? In fact, despite shooting (by far) the most long 2-point jumpshots in the league, Aldridge still had a higher 2-point percentage than Boogie. What exactly makes Boogie so great?

we want our big playing closer to the basket, rebound and block or alter shots?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I am anxious to see CJ and Dame play together. I want to know how beneficial it is to have someone like CJ, who can handle the ball well for a "SG", playing along side of Dame.

On the flip side, how bad will the duo really be on defense playing together?

What I want answered......is teaming Dame up with someone like McLemore really a better option when all things are considered? Or are we better off with CJ and Dame?

 

[blue9]

Why do we want a center who shoots the same percentage as Aldridge did, despite playing significantly closer to the rim? In fact, despite shooting (by far) the most long 2-point jumpshots in the league, Aldridge still had a higher 2-point percentage than Boogie. What exactly makes Boogie so great?

Boogie is a multidimensional player - unlike LMA who only scored inefficiently. Boogie can defend, pass, dribble, and rebound (without someone else doing the dirty work).
Also, I suspect that his FG% will go up once he plays with other legit NBA players.

 

[magnifier661]

I am anxious to see CJ and Dame play together. I want to know how beneficial it is to have someone like CJ, who can handle the ball well for a "SG", playing along side of Dame.

On the flip side, how bad will the duo really be on defense playing together?

What I want answered......is teaming Dame up with someone like McLemore really a better option when all things are considered? Or are we better off with CJ and Dame?

That's a good question.

Right now, I think CJ is better than McLemore, but McLemore has a much much higher upside and size. Basically, if McLemore could eventually let the game come to him, he has the size and ability to be a top 5 SG in the league. It will take some years, but the ceiling is high.

For CJ, I think he's better at creating his shot and distributing than McLemore. I think they are both very similar efficient shooters, but McLemore can learn to use his size and have the ability to post up and defend true 2's

 

[Pinwheel1]

Like with LMA, Boogie would work best as a 2nd option (or even 3rd)
I think he would be OK with that if it was Dame as the #1.

It's nice to have a big to throw it down low to, but it also nice to have them in position to clean up missed shots by your #1 option. Some of the video I saw of Boogie he looked great underneath the basket, but at the same time looked like he wanted to be a stretch 4. Which is what I bet they try him as next to Willey Calley-Stein this season.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

we want our big playing closer to the basket, rebound and block or alter shots?

Ed Davis does all of that, while shooting 60% from the field as compared to Boogie's 46%, and without being a massive ballhog (Cousins had the third highest usage rate in the league last year).