When Everyone Gets Back and Fully Healthy.....

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I'm just about done with this discussion, and I'll tell you one reason: last year going into the playoffs (after Nurkic was out) I was having a debate with two or three posters here (and on RealGM as well) about this very thing. They kept saying that Portland was doing things that 'solved' the problem. They gave examples...just like you just did. I was saying the same thing to: that the Blazers didn't have an answer when teams attacked Dame with length and doubles

OKC didn't do it at all and Dame torched them. Denver did it quite a bit but Denver doesn't have good back court length and Harris is the only good perimeter defender. Still Dame's efficiency in that series cratered after the OKC series. And the Warriors then came in and did the same thing they had done forever against Dame...and sweep. All the "solutions" that people talked about Portland finding in the regular season just vanished. Maybe this year's solutions are better, but I'm not going to believe it, for a second, until I see it

I'm not even sure what you're arguing here...are you saying Portland will be a contender when the playoffs start?

That healthy this years team is better than last years playoff team, thats what Im arguing. Also arguing that Ariza is a much more well rounded wing then Moe or Aminu were who were basically good defenders and adequate stand still jump shooters.

oh and, you and I both know they didnt lose to GS last year because of the trapping defense they lost because they couldnt rebound the ball or guard anyone in transition.

 

[Scalma]

When is Collins to re appear.?

March? He’s evidently ahead of schedule, whatever that means.

 

[wizenheimer]

That healthy this years team is better than last years playoff team, thats what Im arguing. Also arguing that Ariza is a much more well rounded wing then Moe or Aminu were who were basically good defenders and adequate stand still jump shooters.

was that a 'yes' to being a contender?

and what do you think that chances are that Nurkic will be as good as he was only 6-7 weeks after returning from 11 months off? Healthy is one thing, being at the same level is entirely different considering the situation

 

[wizenheimer]

March? He’s evidently ahead of schedule, whatever that means.

the schedule they said after the surgery was that he'd be re-evaluated around the 1st week in March

 

[blazerfan11]

Portland had a healthy Nurkic and a healthy Ed Davis when the Pelicans swept them. CJ averaged 25 with great efficiency and the Pels didn't worry a bit about CJ beating them...rightfully

IMO, in order to be a real contender, Portland needs a major talent at the wing or at PF. A Kawhi or a PG13 or even a Siakam. Rearranging role players isn't going to make Portland a contender and neither is a different rotation in the 3rd option or lower. Portland needs a player that can consistently punish a team for focusing on Lillard. Somebody who can crush scoring while getting others involved, and who can help well on defense. That's not CJ and it's not Nurkic

It will be impossible to get any of the players you mention. My target would be Karl Anthony Towns , he can't be happy in Minnesota and it's just as hard to get a player like Lillard, which is what they need, as it is to get a Kawhi Leonard. Plus they've already been burned by trading for Jimmy Butler.
Portland might be able to make Minnesota a playoff team with what they could give them. Minnesota obviously is not a playoff team now.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

was that a 'yes' to being a contender?

and what do you think that chances are that Nurkic will be as good as he was only 6-7 weeks after returning from 11 months off? Healthy is one thing, being at the same level is entirely different considering the situation

Id probably side with no to being a contender, because even if Nurk and Zach come back Id be hard pressed to think they’ll slide right back into being what they were, not that Zach has proven much at this point anyways. Also they dug themselves into the position of not having HCA at all. Healthy all year, then its closer to a yes.

 

[blazerfan11]

was that a 'yes' to being a contender?

and what do you think that chances are that Nurkic will be as good as he was only 6-7 weeks after returning from 11 months off? Healthy is one thing, being at the same level is entirely different considering the situation

He's a big upgrade over Swanigan:

 

[tlongII]

was that a 'yes' to being a contender?

and what do you think that chances are that Nurkic will be as good as he was only 6-7 weeks after returning from 11 months off? Healthy is one thing, being at the same level is entirely different considering the situation

There’s no doubt that they’re a contender now. If you don’t recognize that you may need your vision checked.

 

[blazerfan11]

in my view, that doesn't matter. Sure, just about any player can receive the bail-out pass when Dame is doubled. CJ has been doing that. But then, those other 4 players have to run the offense successfully, and do it consistently; and they haven't been able to do so. The offense breaks down all the damn time. CJ can get his points, at times, but he can't run an offense to save his life against playoff defense and playoff intensity. Portland has not had any player close to capable of punishing a defense for a Dame-centic focus and force an adjustment by the opponent, any adjustment. Hell, they faced the Warriors for the 3rd time in 4 playoffs last year; the Warriors employed the exact same defense they had the two previous times and Portland couldn't even win 1 game as they lost their 10th straight playoff game against them. If they had solved the riddle in any fashion they should have at least won one game, but they couldn't...and Durant didn't even play

I get that in a Blazer forum people want to believe the Blazers are contenders in the best of all possible worlds. You guys might be right. But what I've seen is that Portland has a massive weakness that opponents exploit in the playoffs: their best player, their best scorer, and their only player capable of consistently running the offense is all the same guy. And when an opponent can take him out of the equation, they take out the best player, scorer, and only true facilitator. Whiteside is not going to solve what CJ & friends haven't solved. Ariza & Melo aren't solving it either....IMO

Stotts isn't solving it either. A smart team should be able to quickly take advantage of a 4 on 3. Typically you would go right at the hoop. The Blazers have always seemed flummoxed, though Lillard did a great job in the last game of finding the hoop runner in the last game.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm just about done with this discussion, and I'll tell you one reason: last year going into the playoffs (after Nurkic was out) I was having a debate with two or three posters here (and on RealGM as well) about this very thing. They kept saying that Portland was doing things that 'solved' the problem. They gave examples...just like you just did. I was saying the same thing to: that the Blazers didn't have an answer when teams attacked Dame with length and doubles

OKC didn't do it at all and Dame torched them. Denver did it quite a bit but Denver doesn't have good back court length and Harris is the only good perimeter defender. Still Dame's efficiency in that series cratered after the OKC series. And the Warriors then came in and did the same thing they had done forever against Dame...and sweep. All the "solutions" that people talked about Portland finding in the regular season just vanished. Maybe this year's solutions are better, but I'm not going to believe it, for a second, until I see it

I'm not even sure what you're arguing here...are you saying Portland will be a contender when the playoffs start?

The premise is that the Blazers are healthy. Were the Blazers healthy against the Warriors? I seem to recall Kanter having a separated shoulder and Dame playing with a rib injury. The Lakers used Bradley, an excellent defender, on Dame the other night. They threw double teams at him as well. He blew up thei defense to the tune of 48 points. He’s NOT the same player who got taken out of his game by the Pelicans. He’s expanded his shooting range to give himself more options, and he’s just a more seasoned player. You can see him probing defenders and working through his options before choosing which tool in his repertoire to use to beat them. As long as he stays healthy, the Blazers have a chance against anyone. Will they be the favorites? No, but they have a solid shot if Nurk and Collins return and the rest of the guys stay healthy.

 

[blazerfan11]

The reason why I say we skip over their wins is because before the playoffs last year all the talk was how crappy they had been in the playoffs and how big that was for Russ and Dame because one of them was going to he 1st round exiters 3 years running. Then Dame won and Then they beat Denver and then in here over the summer a lot of people basically said well OKC really actually sucked, and Denver was young so they sucked, so lets not talk about those wins and lets actually talk about the last few years the series they lost in. So its like when they win we’ll find ways to say it didnt matter, when they lose we’ll talk about how important that is.

Anyways I should fulfill my promise and go back to working.

I saw Little cutting last night as Dame was being trapped and during the bailout Little was hit with the pass and an easy bucket.

Yeah, with McCollum sitting on the bench. Passing the ball to McCollum usually means not burning the other team at the hoop.

 

[Lanny]

......are the Blazers a legitimate contending team?

Fucking 'A' absolutely.
But it's not going to happen until next year and we've got to keep Whiteside, Anthony and Ariza as vital backups on a team very shallow in depth.

 

[Hoopguru]

That healthy this years team is better than last years playoff team, thats what Im arguing. Also arguing that Ariza is a much more well rounded wing then Moe or Aminu were who were basically good defenders and adequate stand still jump shooters.

oh and, you and I both know they didnt lose to GS last year because of the trapping defense they lost because they couldnt rebound the ball or guard anyone in transition.

They let Green push the ball all series uncontested.

 

[Blazers Roy]

......are the Blazers a legitimate contending team?

No.

-Lillard can't average 50 PPG in the playoffs.
-Our guards get ZERO respect from the refs, you can beat them down in the paint and get away with it.
-We don't have a big Forward who can impose his will in the playoffs like Kawai,Lebron,AD,Giannis etc.
-We don't rebound the ball and allow too many threes.
-Terry Stotts.

 

[Sprayzen1908]

Abit excited with how Dame is playing but let’s be realistic - we have to make the finals before being a contender. We have to beat teams below us and around us. We have to win more than we lose.

Let’s take 1 thing at a time, get above the line with a gap, win more than we lose and then talk finals contenders.

 

[wizenheimer]

There’s no doubt that they’re a contender now. If you don’t recognize that you may need your vision checked.

sure, and Nurkic returned in December like you predicted over and over

meanwhile, we're all just predicting the near future of a team that got swept in the WCF, went thru a major roster rebuild, and has major injuries with no certainty at all that the injured players will return to anywhere near what they were by the time the playoffs are here. They weren't a contender last season, it's not irrational at all to think they aren't this season given the circumstances

 

[tlongII]

sure, and Nurkic returned in December like you predicted over and over

meanwhile, we're all just predicting the near future of a team that got swept in the WCF, went thru a major roster rebuild, and has major injuries with no certainty at all that the injured players will return to anywhere near what they were. They weren't a contender last season, it's not irrational at all to think they aren't this season

Yeah that was a swing and a miss...

However, if this team gets those guys back we’re in contention.

 

[wizenheimer]

Yeah that was a swing and a miss...

However, if this team gets those guys back we’re in contention.

ok...maybe the difference comes down to the definition of contender. I think it means one of the 2 or 3 favorites for the championship. 4 at most and that's only in wide open years (which we haven't had in a long time). The Bucks are contenders. Toronto and Boston might be contenders...and might not be. The Lakers and Clippers are contenders. I don't think Denver, Utah or Houston are contenders. I don't think getting Nurkic and Collins back at 70-80% of what they were will have the Blazers leap frog those other 5 teams and put them in the class of Milwaukee, LAL, and LAC

sure, you can come up with a perfect storm of a ton of different circumstances and project a pretender making it to the finals. That doesn't make them a contender though in my view.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

ok...maybe the difference comes down to the definition of contender. I think it means one of the 2 or 3 favorites for the championship. 4 at most and that's only in wide open years (which we haven't had in a long time). The Bucks are contenders. Toronto and Boston might be contenders...and might not be. The Lakers and Clippers are contenders. I don't think Denver, Utah or Houston are contenders. I don't think getting Nurkic and Collins back at 70-80% of what they were will have the Blazers leap frog those other 5 teams and put them in the class of Milwaukee, LAL, and LAC

sure, you can come up with a perfect storm of a ton of different circumstances and project a pretender making it to the finals. That doesn't make them a contender though in my view.

I think this year is one of the more open years then past years. For one, we have a year with a lot of “new” teams, AD has been out of the first round once. GS has fell off from injuries, Milwaukee is the favorite but they havent proven it either and I would contend that Budenholzer has been here before, he’s a great regular season coach. PG13 sure wasnt the difference in the OKC series last year. My argument if I were to make one that Portland is a contender would be around outside of Denver all the teams in the west had either a lot of new pieces or will be incorporating new major pieces in the playoffs. I think LAL and Milwaukee are the favorites but absolutely think 7-8 teams have an argument they could make, and honestly most years it is like 2-3 teams.

 

[1eyedjack]

Ariza has been Our Buck Williams glue guy who gives you a certain toughness. Thought he’d be to old to help but I was wrong he’s exactly type of player we needed to mix with our young guys and vets. Going to be interesting to see how Stotts mixes the injured players back in. If everyone excepts a told this team could be scary good. Only matchup I wouldn’t want is Clippers

 

[Tince]

Most contending teams have 2-3 all-stars, a couple elite defenders, and are surrounded with shooters.

When healthy, I don't think our roster checks any of those boxes unforunately.

 

[Cugel]

If this is your roster then its very very good. But how do you make that work money-wise. Perhaps someone can enlighten us how regarding how you can pay all those bills? Hassan will want 12-15M a year. Ariza? Melo? Did getting rid of Bazemore make this more feasible??

Dame
CJ
Ariza
Melo
Nurk
Whiteside
Collins
Trent
Nas/Simons/the others

 

[1eyedjack]

If this is your roster then its very very good. But how do you make that work money-wise. Perhaps someone can enlighten us how regarding how you can pay all those bills? Hassan will want 12-15M a year. Ariza? Melo? Did getting rid of Bazemore make this more feasible??

Dame
CJ
Ariza
Melo
Nurk
Whiteside
Collins
Trent
Nas/Simons/the others

You can’t make it work except for this year. All in

 

[maxiep]

Isn't this thread somewhat moot? One of our primary pieces--Hood--won't be back at all this season. Perhaps not even at the beginning of the next. He had both a significant and unique role we haven't been able to replace on this team.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Abit excited with how Dame is playing but let’s be realistic - we have to make the finals before being a contender. We have to beat teams below us and around us. We have to win more than we lose.

Let’s take 1 thing at a time, get above the line with a gap, win more than we lose and then talk finals contenders.

The Lakers, Clippers, and Bucks haven’t been to the Finals. Are they not contenders?

 

[MARIS61]

......are the Blazers a legitimate contending team?

Hard to say, as the current roster will be retired long before that ever happens.

 

[Tince]

I'd like to know what NBA championship team had a compariable roster to this one?

 

[e_blazer]

If this is your roster then its very very good. But how do you make that work money-wise. Perhaps someone can enlighten us how regarding how you can pay all those bills? Hassan will want 12-15M a year. Ariza? Melo? Did getting rid of Bazemore make this more feasible??

Dame
CJ
Ariza
Melo
Nurk
Whiteside
Collins
Trent
Nas/Simons/the others

If the objective is to have that same roster next year, then it’s not hard at all:

Dame - Under contract
CJ - Under contract
Ariza - Team option on final year of contract
Melo - Free Agent who wants to stay - Tax payer MLE
Nurk - Under contract
Whiteside - Bird rights to match any offer
Collins - Under contract
Trent - Under contract
Little - Under contract
Simons - Under contract
Skal - Bird rights
Hood - Player option which he’ll take while making comeback
Hezonja - Player option which he’ll take due to excessive suckitude

 

[MARIS61]

I'd like to know what NBA championship team had a compariable roster to this one?

The Utah Jazz! Oh, wait...

A good example of having 2 or 3 top-tier players but never getting there.

Clyde and Company is another great example from the same era.

 

[BonesJones]

Most contending teams have 2-3 all-stars, a couple elite defenders, and are surrounded with shooters.

When healthy, I don't think our roster checks any of those boxes unforunately.

It definitely doesnt. We dont enough all around.