When is Stotts going to play Nurk and Collins together?

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Stotts or Aminu needs to go, because Stotts will never play Aminu in the right fashion. If he's going to continue being used as only a 4, then we need to trade him, because that's not the optimal move.
 
BonesJones said:
Stotts or Aminu needs to go, because Stotts will never play Aminu in the right fashion. If he's going to continue being used as only a 4, then we need to trade him, because that's not the optimal move.
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He's best used at the 4 with our current personnel. His offensive value is also severely diminished when shifted to the 3.

If Zach continues to develop as an offensive player, you may be able to get away with him there, but he's not there yet.
 
JDC said:
He's best used at the 4 with our current personnel. His offensive value is also severely diminished when shifted to the 3.

If Zach continues to develop as an offensive player, you may be able to get away with him there, but he's not there yet.
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No, not 100% of the time, and especially not against Anthony Davis.

How is his offensive value diminished at the 3? Either he's hitting 3s or he's not.
 
BonesJones said:
No, not 100% of the time, and especially not against Anthony Davis.

How is his offensive value diminished at the 3? Either he's hitting 3s or he's not.
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You're taking a lot of offense off the table with Vonleh or Ed at the 4 and Zach would have gotten cooked as well. In other words, there is no magical solution here.

And to your 2nd question, Aminu's 40% from 3 isn't providing near the amount of spacing benefits if he isn't playing the 4.
 
JDC said:
You're taking a lot of offense off the table with Vonleh or Ed at the 4 and Zach would have gotten cooked as well. In other words, there is no magical solution here.

And to your 2nd question, Aminu's 40% from 3 isn't providing near the amount of spacing benefits if he isn't playing the 4.
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Which puts more offense on the bench, and makes are defense better against starting quality bigs.

The spacing is pretty much the same with an Aminu-Vonleh or Aminu-Collins pairing as it is with a Turner-Aminu pairing or a Harkless-Aminu pairing. Yes, you have slightly more shooting with the latter group, however, the defense isn't as good. Playing Aminu at the 3 makes it easier to allow him to guard the best guard on the other team, which is impossible if he's playing the 4 (unless you play Harkless with him, but Harkless is out of the rotation). Ed would've done a much better job keeping Davis off the offensive glass down the stretch, which killed us. Defense is what is losing us games lately, as our defense has been downright horrible. That's fixed somewhat by Aminu at the 3. Against the Pels starters, Aminu at the 3 would've allowed him to guard Holiday, who wouldn't have gotten off to the hot start he did, and would've put a better suited defender on Davis.
 
BonesJones said:
Which puts more offense on the bench, and makes are defense better against starting quality bigs.

The spacing is pretty much the same with an Aminu-Vonleh or Aminu-Collins pairing as it is with a Turner-Aminu pairing or a Harkless-Aminu pairing. Yes, you have slightly more shooting with the latter group, however, the defense isn't as good. Playing Aminu at the 3 makes it easier to allow him to guard the best guard on the other team, which is impossible if he's playing the 4 (unless you play Harkless with him, but Harkless is out of the rotation). Ed would've done a much better job keeping Davis off the offensive glass down the stretch, which killed us. Defense is what is losing us games lately, as our defense has been downright horrible. That's fixed somewhat by Aminu at the 3. Against the Pels starters, Aminu at the 3 would've allowed him to guard Holiday, who wouldn't have gotten off to the hot start he did, and would've put a better suited defender on Davis.
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Rebounding is not what lost us this game, Collins would have gotten destroyed by Davis and we were a +16 with Aminu playing "out of position". Vonleh also dramatically changes the spacing, regardless of who plays the 2 or 3.

When it comes down to it though, this whole "we lost because coach" is just such a tired take and I can't help but laugh at people that think they could better gameplan for an nba team.

If we hit 2 or 3 more of those wide open 3's, we aren't talking about any of this shit.
 
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My question is why the hell did Stotts have Napier starting at Small Foward.....he’s a 6’1 PG.
 
JDC said:
Rebounding is not what lost us this game, Collins would have gotten destroyed by Davis and we were a +16 with Aminu playing "out of position". Vonleh also dramatically changes the spacing, regardless of who plays the 2 or 3.

When it comes down to it though, this whole "we lost because coach" is just such a tired take and I can't help but laugh at people that think they could better gameplan for an nba team.

If we hit 2 or 3 more of those wide open 3's, we aren't talking about any of this shit.
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Yeah, because if we hit 3 more threes, it would've made sense to keep shooting them, however when we couldn't hit anything down the stretch, we should've tried attacking more, which we didn't.

Aminu had a great plus/minus because he was playing mostly with Dame and CJ, and because he's our best defender, and Aminu at the 4 works when one of Davis/Cousins wasn't in the game. However, I believe if you played him at SF down the stretch and played Davis/Collins at PF, we would've won, and Aminu's +/- would be 20+. The bench lost us this game, however, more length on Davis would've been a good thing, as he killed us in the 4th quarter, a lot of which came from buckets where he took advantage of the lack of length that was guarding him.

Stotts' has shown he's bad at gameplanning for other teams. Chris Paul, anyone? He switches nothing from game to game, other than the randomness in his rotations.
 
BonesJones said:
Yeah, because if we hit 3 more threes, it would've made sense to keep shooting them, however when we couldn't hit anything down the stretch, we should've tried attacking more, which we didn't.

Aminu had a great plus/minus because he was playing mostly with Dame and CJ, and because he's our best defender, and Aminu at the 4 works when one of Davis/Cousins wasn't in the game. However, I believe if you played him at SF down the stretch and played Davis/Collins at PF, we would've won, and Aminu's +/- would be 20+. The bench lost us this game, however, more length on Davis would've been a good thing, as he killed us in the 4th quarter, a lot of which came from buckets where he took advantage of the lack of length that was guarding him.

Stotts' has shown he's bad at gameplanning for other teams. Chris Paul, anyone? He switches nothing from game to game, other than the randomness in his rotations.
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Exactly. Sliding Aminu to SF would of been more ideal. But I guess with him being our best defender, Stotts wanted someone reliable on Anthony Davis.
 
BonesJones said:
He's our best defender, just not our best defender for Anthony Davis.
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True. They do always blanket him with Meyers Leonard. Not only does this team need a wing scorer but we need a Foward who can actually guard these type of players on a consistent basis. We definitely can’t get a superstar PF because 1.) they are none available and 2.) We’d have to give up a superstar of our own. ...So that Julius Randle option looks more and more inticing by the day...don’t know how good Randle can play defense, I have never sat down and really watched the Lakers much this season besides when they played us..but i’m curious what we can do to upgrade there because we are going to continue to run into trouble later in the months...GSW playoff series last post season was brutal to watch. At least if we have someone we can limit the bleeding we might can squeeze by against these Western contenders.
 
DameLill379 said:
True. They do always blanket him with Meyers Leonard. Not only does this team need a wing scorer but we need a Foward who can actually guard these type of players on a consistent basis. We definitely can’t get a superstar PF because 1.) they are none available and 2.) We’d have to give up a superstar of our own. ...So that Julius Randle option looks more and more inticing by the day...don’t know how good Randle can play defense, I have never sat down and really watched the Lakers much this season besides when they played us..but i’m curious what we can do to upgrade there because we are going to continue to run into trouble later in the months...GSW playoff series last post season was brutal to watch. At least if we have someone we can limit the bleeding we might can squeeze by against these Western contenders.
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theres some nights when he plays good defense and some when he doesnt
point is he can play defense, but doesnt always do that

I like him, hes talented player, but Im not even sure we need him at this point, hes not a stretch 4 and we have Collins as PF of the future, and Randle is 23
 
Mr. Robot said:
theres some nights when he plays good defense and some when he doesnt
point is he can play defense, but doesnt always do that

I like him, hes talented player, but Im not even sure we need him at this point, hes not a stretch 4 and we have Collins as PF of the future, and Randle is 23
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My worry is if Zach Collins can develop into an impact player before this roster goes through any significant changes that may affect our place as playoff contenders. I know as long as we have Dame/CJ we will be OK. But my worry is based on the team as a whole. Zach is still getting his feet wet in the league so it may take awhile before he can consistently guard PF’s/C’s effectively.. I do however like his game and think he’s doing pretty decent for a rookie.
 
Remember, just after Collins was drafted, Olshey said that they view him as a 5, not as a 4. It was a comment that I found curious, almost cutting off the possibility of a Nurkic/Collins pairing from the start. The blame may not belong to Stotts or, at least, the full blame.
 
Minstrel said:
Remember, just after Collins was drafted, Olshey said that they view him as a 5, not as a 4. It was a comment that I found curious, almost cutting off the possibility of a Nurkic/Collins pairing from the start. The blame may not belong to Stotts or, at least, the full blame.
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Nope. The blame is on Paul Allen.
 
Minstrel said:
Remember, just after Collins was drafted, Olshey said that they view him as a 5, not as a 4. It was a comment that I found curious, almost cutting off the possibility of a Nurkic/Collins pairing from the start. The blame may not belong to Stotts or, at least, the full blame.
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I've thought this a few times in the last few weeks...especially with guys like Porzingis playing the 4 now.

I have blind confidence that Meyers/Collins/Layman/Moe/(insert player not getting enough minutes) is not lighting up everyone in practice and just resides in Stotts' doghouse. I choose to believe that playing time is based on merit, or else you'd hear more "whispers". For instance, if Swanigan was continually torching Z-Co in practice, but NO sent him to the G-League to take attention off that the #10 pick (that we traded up for) is getting schooled by his own rookie teammate---that would be messed up and I think it would come out publicly. Personally, I don't think Dame (who values winning, I believe) would let it stand.
 
Collins needs to play. And I think he’s best suited at the 4. His talent is undeniable. He just needs minutes.
 
tlongII said:
Collins needs to play. And I think he’s best suited at the 4. His talent is undeniable. He just needs minutes.
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He needs to develop a jumper so we can depend on him more as he gets more minutes. He doesn’t have to be Embiid with his jumpers..just consistent enough. Because it’s clear barely anyone else besides our backcourt can be depended on to get buckets
 
BrianFromWA said:
I've thought this a few times in the last few weeks...especially with guys like Porzingis playing the 4 now.

I have blind confidence that Meyers/Collins/Layman/Moe/(insert player not getting enough minutes) is not lighting up everyone in practice and just resides in Stotts' doghouse. I choose to believe that playing time is based on merit, or else you'd hear more "whispers". For instance, if Swanigan was continually torching Z-Co in practice, but NO sent him to the G-League to take attention off that the #10 pick (that we traded up for) is getting schooled by his own rookie teammate---that would be messed up and I think it would come out publicly. Personally, I don't think Dame (who values winning, I believe) would let it stand.
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Caleb S is apparently that man in the G-League don’t be surprised if he gets called up pretty soon here. We have to shake things up if we want to turn this around because this inconsistency is getting ugly...we blow out OKC, beat out the Spurs but lose games we should win against NO. That one Atlanta Hawks game we got blown out in earlier in the year sticks with me....WTF is going on.
 
DameLill379 said:
Caleb S is apparently that man in the G-League don’t be surprised if he gets called up pretty soon here. We have to shake things up if we want to turn this around because this inconsistency is getting ugly...we blow out OKC, beat out the Spurs but lose games we should win against NO. That one Atlanta Hawks game we got blown out in earlier in the year sticks with me....WTF is going on.
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A rookie who struggled early but is playing well in the G league is going to make us more consistent? If you want to tank after awhile then fine play him, but it is too early for that.
IMO if he plays he will be taking Ed's minutes. I doubt that will go over well with the other players. Unless you trade Davis.....
 
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