Where does Webster fit?

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Natebishop3

Natebishop3

Don't tread on me!
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We're inching closer to the season, and it's looking like we won't be making any other moves, so I'm wondering where Martell fits into all this.

If he's healthy, where do you envision him? We have quite the logjam at small forward, especially with Rudy logging spot minutes there. How do we keep everyone happy?

Let's say that Miller and Blake play all the minutes at point guard. Brandon plays 35+ minutes per game, which could be split between three positions depending on who we play.

Who starts? Who comes off the bench? Does Martell sit? Batum? How many minutes does Outlaw log at power forward? Does Rudy play small forward at times?
 
Martell will be back up at SF, or possibly start, and Batum or Webster will play on a running second unit with Outlaw at PF, LMA at C, Rudy at SG, and Miller running the point.

:)
 
More and more, it seems like before the trade deadline KP will have to find a trade for another PF. Use our glut to fill a position of need.

But if that does not happen, Batum is most important, then Rudy. Get these two guys the minutes they need. Let Webster and Outlaw fight for scraps.
 
GOD said:
More and more, it seems like before the trade deadline KP will have to find a trade for another PF. Use our glut to fill a position of need.

But if that does not happen, Batum is most important, then Rudy. Get these two guys the minutes they need. Let Webster and Outlaw fight for scraps.
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That's a strong point, and the nice thing is it would be for a back-up PF who isn't making starter-type money.
 
Webster hasn't fit this lineup for 2 years now, and without Sergio feeding him will probably look even more out of place this season as he and Blake have never clicked on court.
 
If Webster is back and any good then:

PG: Miller / Blake / Bayless
SG: Roy / Fernandez
SF: Batum / Webster / Cunningham
PF: Aldridge / Outlaw / Pendergraph
C: Oden / Przybilla

(Players are in order of minutes at each position...who starts is a bit up in the air. ;))
 
Minstrel said:
If Webster is back and any good then:

PG: Miller / Blake / Bayless
SG: Roy / Fernandez
SF: Batum / Webster / Cunningham
PF: Aldridge / Outlaw / Pendergraph
C: Oden / Przybilla

(Players are in order of minutes at each position...who starts is a bit up in the air. ;))
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Does Outlaw get enough minutes as the backup power forward?

So here's another question, if we do a consolidation trade, what position do you target? We have so much talent, it would be difficult to fit any more on the roster. The only position I could see us upgrading is small forward.
 
He doesn't/ There has never been a more over rated player in Blazer history.
 
We're starving for a real backup PF.

Webster, Bayless, Cunningham and Pendergraph should get us a very good backup PF, while ridding us of 4 guys who will never fit this team.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Does Outlaw get enough minutes as the backup power forward?
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Probably not, but one of Outlaw or Webster is going to basically be reduced to a bit role unless there's a consolidation trade. My guess is that it will be Webster, based on him never having been as good as Outlaw, coming off an injury and coming off a year away from basketball. But I'd first give Outlaw all the minutes Aldridge doesn't take (18 minutes, say) and then give him 7 more at small forward. If Batum plays 30 minutes (which I hope he does, but he certainly might not), that would leave 11 for Webster. If Batum plays 25, Webster gets 16. It'll do.

So here's another question, if we do a consolidation trade, what position do you target? We have so much talent, it would be difficult to fit any more on the roster. The only position I could see us upgrading is small forward.
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I'd go for a good pre-prime point guard (with Bayless involved in the deal) or an excellent veteran small forward. A point guard to take over for Miller in a year or two, or a really good small forward who helps Portland win now and Batum can take over for in a few years.
 
Minstrel said:
Probably not, but one of Outlaw or Webster is going to basically be reduced to a bit role unless there's a consolidation trade. My guess is that it will be Webster, based on him never having been as good as Outlaw, coming off an injury and coming off a year away from basketball. But I'd first give Outlaw all the minutes Aldridge doesn't take (18 minutes, say) and then give him 7 more at small forward. If Batum plays 30 minutes (which I hope he does, but he certainly might not), that would leave 11 for Webster. If Batum plays 25, Webster gets 16. It'll do.



I'd go for a good pre-prime point guard (with Bayless involved in the deal) or an excellent veteran small forward. A point guard to take over for Miller in a year or two, or a really good small forward who helps Portland win now and Batum can take over for in a few years.
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Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but I can't think of a small forward that fits the bill. I would love to pry Stephen Jackson and Ronny Turiaf from Golden State, but I doubt that would happen. Maybe we could convince Utah to do a three way trade with Golden State. Boozer to Golden State and Jackson to us.
 
Well, if Nate is really planning on playing Miller and Oden on the 2nd unit, then it seems he might want to play Batum on the 2nd unit also. I know that Miller specifically mentioned Batum as a guy whose offensive game he could really help. That's assuming Webster is 100% physically and shooting well. The first unit would need more offense (Webster) with Pryzbilla in there.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, but I can't think of a small forward that fits the bill. I would love to pry Stephen Jackson and Ronny Turiaf from Golden State, but I doubt that would happen. Maybe we could convince Utah to do a three way trade with Golden State. Boozer to Golden State and Jackson to us.
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The highest PER in Stephen Jackson's career was last year's 16.2. He's a career 41% FG shooter, and he shot 34% from 3pt last year. He did all of this while not playing a lick of defense (DRTG of 114), and his usage rate is on par with Brandon Roy's.

All that for $7 million? Sign me up. :sigh:

Let him rot in Oakland.
 
MARIS61 said:
We're starving for a real backup PF.

Webster, Bayless, Cunningham and Pendergraph should get us a very good backup PF, while ridding us of 4 guys who will never fit this team.
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What happened to "let it bake?"
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
Well, if Nate is really planning on playing Miller and Oden on the 2nd unit, then it seems he might want to play Batum on the 2nd unit also. I know that Miller specifically mentioned Batum as a guy whose offensive game he could really help. That's assuming Webster is 100% physically and shooting well. The first unit would need more offense (Webster) with Pryzbilla in there.
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Hmmm.... that's an interesting theory..... what if Webster is the starter and Batum is the backup? I guess that's possible. I never really thought about that.
 
UKRAINEFAN said:
The first unit would need more offense (Webster)
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Does Webster actually provide more offense than Batum? I think that's pretty questionable. He scored 10.7 PPG in his last healthy season to Batum's 5.4 PPG, but he took significantly more shots to get those extra points. Batum's scoring efficiency was slightly higher than Webster's. And that was Batum's rookie season. With that experience under his belt, I expect Batum to improve in his second season. As it is, I'm not convinced that Webster was a better scorer when comparing his third season directly with Batum's rookie season and with improvement from Batum, I'd expect Batum to be the better scorer.

Batum's Assist Rate and Rebound Rate were also higher than Webster's. So I don't anticipate Webster having an edge in any facet of the game next season.
 
Minstrel said:
If Webster is back and any good then:

PG: Miller / Blake / Bayless
SG: Roy / Fernandez
SF: Batum / Webster / Cunningham
PF: Aldridge / Outlaw / Pendergraph
C: Oden / Przybilla

(Players are in order of minutes at each position...who starts is a bit up in the air. ;))
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That is the way I see it as well, with the possible exception of Batum and Webster being switched. I posted once before that I wanted Robert Swift as injury insurance, and I would still like to get him for a minimum contract if possible.
 
PG: Miller / Blake / Bayless
SG: Roy / Fernandez / Blake / Webster
SF: Batum / Roy / Webster / Cunningham
PF: Aldridge / Outlaw / Oden / Pendergraph
C: Oden / Przybilla

This is how I see it shaking out. Rudy Fernandez is a much better player than Webster. Roy plays SF almost as well as he does SG. So I'd rather see Rudy at SG and Roy at SF before I see Webster in the game.

If you need somebody to stand around and launch threes off the bench, I'd rather see Blake out there at SG. Sorry, Martell, but Blake is a more reliable shooter and brings decent passing (as a backup shooting guard). Blake has a size disadvantage, but he's actually a pretty good defender against guys a little bigger than him. It's speed that kills Blake. Besides, a lot of backup NBA SG's are undersized anyway (otherwise they'd start).

So I think Webster gets whatever table scraps that come with being the third string SF and fourth string SG.

For that matter, I really don't see a lot of minutes for Outlaw or Webster this year. Outlaw gets the 15 minutes or so at backup 4, and that's about it.

Andre Miller is now our third or fourth best player on the team. He's getting old, but he's coming off a season where he averaged 36 mpg, and he's an injury-free iron man. When you add somebody of that quality who is that capable of playing big minutes, other guys are going to lose minutes. (And it's not like there were really enough minutes for Webster last year if he had been healthy anyway.)

We added a little playing time by dumping the worst players in our rotation (Frye and Rodriguez), but then Fernandez and Oden are almost certainly going to average more minutes this year to offset that. Oden will probably play a little more in the "twin tower" role at PF, edging out Outlaw. Roy will probably play a little more at SF to make space for Rudy, edging out Webster. Blake probably plays a little more at backup SG, also edging out Webster.
 
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BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
I see Webster starting at SF.
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Why? What does he do that's better than Batum?

I'd start Fernandez at SG and Roy at SF before I started Webster. Or I'd go with a two PG lineup of Miller, Blake, Roy, Aldridge, Oden.

But I'd rather just start Batum. In his rookie year he was already better than anything Webster has shown us.
 
mook said:
Why? What does he do that's better than Batum?

I'd start Fernandez at SG and Roy at SF before I started Webster. Or I'd go with a two PG lineup of Miller, Blake, Roy, Aldridge, Oden.

But I'd rather just start Batum. In his rookie year he was already better than anything Webster has shown us.
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Batum was great at times but other times he totally disappeared (I guess Webster was like that 2 years ago)..esp in the Playoffs.

I'd like to see what a more level-headed and mature webster can bring. He's put on some muscle...dunno, Batum is great but I can envision him losing his starting spot.


Just look at stats:

Martell: 10.8ppg/3.9rpg/1.2apg 42.4% FG, 38.5%3PT
Nic: 5.4ppg/2.8rpg/0.8apg 44.6%FG, 36.9% 3PT

I think people are overrating Batum based on a few nice runs. I don't see how he's "clearly outplayed him" other than rating them based on their 19-year old rookie seasons or whatever.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
Martell: 10.8ppg/3.9rpg/1.2apg 42.4% FG, 38.5%3PT
Nic: 5.4ppg/2.8rpg/0.8apg 44.6%FG, 36.9% 3PT
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The stats are useless when you do not include minutes played and usage% - as shown by inspecting advanced statistics - Batum's offensive production was more efficient than Webster's in his rookie year - his PER was higher than any year during Webster's career. Another measure - offensive win score shows that a rookie batum, playing less than 75% of the time Webster played and being used less than Webster was (14% vs. 18%) contributed a higher win-score.

Raw statistics are nice - but are pretty useless to really see their real contributions to the team. Webster, when used more and playing long minutes did not contribute as many wins (offensively) as Batum did in his rookie year.

The stats are very clear - Batum is a better player.
 
andalusian said:
The stats are useless when you do not include minutes played and usage% - as shown by inspecting advanced statistics - Batum's offensive production was more efficient than Webster's in his rookie year - his PER was higher than any year during Webster's career. Another measure - offensive win score shows that a rookie batum, playing less than 75% of the time Webster played and being used less than Webster was (14% vs. 18%) contributed a higher win-score.

Raw statistics are nice - but are pretty useless to really see their real contributions to the team. Webster, when used more and playing long minutes did not contribute as many wins (offensively) as Batum did in his rookie year.

The stats are very clear - Batum is a better player.
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The stats are not very clear.

You're using a limited sample (using Batum's reduced minutes), then comparing Martell's Rookie season vs. Batum and attempting to apply them to the present day. You are coming up with left field statistics like "offensive win score" that no one gives a fuck about.

Last year Batum started because he was fill in. Travis Outlaw sucked because he just chucked the ball and screwed up the offense when he started. Batum played pretty conservatively, just kind of blending in with the offense.

I'm not anti-Batum or anything, but I think its not a stretch to say that Martell will be starting next season.
 
BTOWN_HUSTLA said:
The stats are not very clear.

You're using a limited sample (using Batum's reduced minutes), then comparing Martell's Rookie season vs. Batum and attempting to apply them to the present day. You are coming up with left field statistics like "offensive win score" that no one gives a fuck about.

Last year Batum started because he was fill in. Travis Outlaw sucked because he just chucked the ball and screwed up the offense when he started. Batum played pretty conservatively, just kind of blending in with the offense.

I'm not anti-Batum or anything, but I think its not a stretch to say that Martell will be starting next season.
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You are wrong. The stats I presented were from Batum's rookie year and Webster's 3rd and best year.

I will repeat this info - During his rookie year, Batum, in a reduced role, contributed more wins than Webster did in his 3rd year.

Again, check the advanced stats in this link - http://www.basketball-reference.com...m=0&p1=batumni01&y1=2009&p2=webstma02&y2=2008 and notice what years we are talking about.

Now - if you choose not to give a fuck about statistics that adjust for pace, minutes played, usage and efficiency - that's your choice - but I can assure you there are people that notice these things as they provide a better view of worth than raw statistics that ignore all these things.
 
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"Batum's offensive production was more efficient than Webster's in his rookie year"

the way you made it sound, you seem to refer to Webster's rookie year.
 
Webster starts Opening Night. You don't lose your position due to injury or another guy showing up who's better than you (right, Nate?) It's another matter about whether he starts in HOU 3 days later.

This team would be best if there was a 3-man rotation at guard (Miller, Roy, Rudy), Webs and Batum at the 3 (and spot 2), and a 3-man Oden/LMA/Legit PF-C. Since Oden's still questionable, I don't mind keeping Przy around in a pure C/Backup C rotation, but I don't think Joel's gonna like it.

I would've liked Okafor. Chandler'd be ok, but I just don't like the guy. :shrug: Honestly, I still think the Przy/Bayless/(whoever MIN wants of Outlaw or Blake)/1st for Love/Cardinal/Rubio's rights makes some sense.

Forgot to finish: I think Webster's going to be surprisingly good this year. I know stats don't predict that, but IF he gets Outlaw-esque minutes (either starting or off the bench) I think you'll be surprised.
 
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