Which former all-star will Blazers trade for?

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Nikolokolus said:
Why on earth would KP make a "big" move for a backup using Raef's expiring deal?
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Remember when we acquired Brian Grant? We already had Rasheed. Or when we acquired Danny Ainge, when we had Porter and Drexler? Or when we acquired Strickland when we already had Porter?

As the Lakers are demonstrating with Odom and the Jazz with Kirilenko, sometimes it makes more sense to have your third best player come off the bench. If you start five all-stars but have dregs on the bench you're not maximizing your talent.
 
Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, Antawn Jamison, Shawn Marion, Andre Kirilenko....any of these guys would be a massive upgrade over our current SF position. Of course, I'd want some assurance if it were Marion that he had intentions on re-signing here.

Still, I can't help but think about years past when we had expiring contracts in guys like Stoudamire, Sabonis, Rahim and Pippen, and how there was a lot of speculation and little actual results. The only time in recent memory we actually did trade a big expiring contract was with Rasheed, and he was still a damned good player.

I know we were a lot worse team back then with a lot less promise, but still. I'll only really start believing it's going to happen after there are some specific names mentioned in the media.
 
Nikolokolus said:
This was said at the tail end of the courtside broadcast from this past week, and when the topic was brought up, the other two guys in studio started shushing Barrett in a "don't let the cat out of the bag, 'cause we'll get in trouble" kind of way.
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I was talking about RICE saying it would be a player 28 or younger, not Barrett saying there'd be a trade.
 
I would be okay with Jamison. IF IF IF he would play SF and backup PF. If not, get him out.
 
mook said:
Caron Butler, Gerald Wallace, Antawn Jamison, Shawn Marion, Andre Kirilenko....any of these guys would be a massive upgrade over our current SF position. Of course, I'd want some assurance if it were Marion that he had intentions on re-signing here.

Still, I can't help but think about years past when we had expiring contracts in guys like Stoudamire, Sabonis, Rahim and Pippen, and how there was a lot of speculation and little actual results. The only time in recent memory we actually did trade a big expiring contract was with Rasheed, and he was still a damned good player.

I know we were a lot worse team back then with a lot less promise, but still. I'll only really start believing it's going to happen after there are some specific names mentioned in the media.
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I was just about to say that all our prior complacency with expiring contracts did not occur during KP's tenure until I remembered about Magloire. KP could have gotten something for his contract after showcasing him during the first half of the season that year.

Either way, the point I'm getting at is that KP does not make mid-season moves (or, atleast he hasn't in the past). Even in today's article on NBA.com, KP said: "It's more important that we got the ingredients. Now we're sticking it in the oven and we're letting it bake. Let's see what comes out and when it comes out if it's what we like, great, if it's not then we can make some adjustments. Right now we got to bake." This seems highly unlikely to me.
 
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Rastapopoulos said:
Remember when we acquired Brian Grant? We already had Rasheed. Or when we acquired Danny Ainge, when we had Porter and Drexler? Or when we acquired Strickland when we already had Porter?

As the Lakers are demonstrating with Odom and the Jazz with Kirilenko, sometimes it makes more sense to have your third best player come off the bench. If you start five all-stars but have dregs on the bench you're not maximizing your talent.
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Grant played around 32 minutes a game his first two season with the team, so it's not like he was a true backup. Secondly, Ainge was brought in as one of the finishing touches for a complete roster that was in the midst of contending for a title; our current roster is still pretty much a work in progress, with the point guard and small forward positions anything but set in stone.

I agree that sometimes it's a good idea to have a superior player come off the bench to provide scoring pop, but with as much promise as Batum holds I still see the small forward position being unsettled with this team.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Remember when we acquired Brian Grant? We already had Rasheed. Or when we acquired Danny Ainge, when we had Porter and Drexler? Or when we acquired Strickland when we already had Porter?
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Two of those three guys were free agents. We didn't have to make a big deal to get them. Ainge was an upgrade, it was thought, over Drazen, but I don't think it was considered a big deal at the time.

I am not opposed to strengthening our bench, but we have a lot of similar talents. If we're going to move the RLEC we should be looking to add a guy who's our 3rd- or 4th-best player, if at all possible, rather than adding more depth to the bench.

Ed O.
 
From that list i would agree with Caron Butler as the best possibility.

As for Kirilenko......no way. The Jazz hate the Blazer organization and would never give us Andre. And as stated above they would rather let Boozer walk. Okur is no guarantee to stay either. They need Kirilenko's toughness.
 
Why do they hate us? I don't doubt that they'd have reasons to, I just wonder why.
 
discovery69 said:
Caron Butler is my guess
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I would like that!

Welcome to the board! Links to your summaries are sometimes posted here and they are most excellent.

Good to have you aboard and hope you post regularly.

Gramps...
 
Ed O said:
I am not opposed to strengthening our bench, but we have a lot of similar talents. If we're going to move the RLEC we should be looking to add a guy who's our 3rd- or 4th-best player, if at all possible, rather than adding more depth to the bench.
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Why are those two goals (bolded) mutually exclusive? See previous comments about Odom and Kirilenko. Are they better talents than some of the starters? No doubt. See also Havlicek.

My main points:
1. The Wizards wouldn't give up Butler. Not only is he their best player, he's quite young and he's quite cheap. Why on earth would they give him up? The owner is not Donald Sterling, he actually cares about his team.

2. We don't need players who are primarily scorers at SF or PG, and it's players that are primarily scorers who get to be All-Stars. (I can name 3 exceptions: Rodman, Mutombo and Ben Wallace. Any more?) If we're acquiring a former all-star, he'll be a scorer. And...

3. You can always use scorers off the bench. Of course, that's what Outlaw already is, but
(a) we're getting Webster back, and he can fill it up too, and is less of a black hole, and
(b) we don't have a good backup PF. Imagine Aldridge sitting out for a while - wouldn't that screw our chances to do anything?

I would actually get more excited about getting players like Shane Battier or Derek Fisher or James Posey because I genuinely believe in the importance of good veteran "coaches on the floor" (the Lakers' big turnaround started when they re-aquired Fisher: Memphis's free-fall started when they swapped Battier for Gay). But I can't see anyone calling that a "blockbuster trade"
 
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yuyuza1 said:
I was just about to say that all our prior complacency with expiring contracts did not occur during KP's tenure until I remembered about Magloire. KP could have gotten something for his contract after showcasing him during the first half of the season that year.

Either way, the point I'm getting at is that KP does not make mid-season moves (or, atleast he hasn't in the past). Even in today's article on NBA.com, KP said: "It's more important that we got the ingredients. Now we're sticking it in the oven and we're letting it bake. Let's see what comes out and when it comes out if it's what we like, great, if it's not then we can make some adjustments. Right now we got to bake." This seems highly unlikely to me.
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True, he makes these quotes. True, never been a mid-season trade by KP.

Makes you think.

And if the player coming back were Jamison or another over 30 players, or another player that would come off the bench, it does seem that KP would be reluctant to pull the trigger.

He is in the middle of "baking the cake" and he makes a so-so move that may or may not be a big help for a year or two?

On the other hand, if he could land an early-prime talent the caliber of Butler, and doesn't have to give up a lot, and had to make that move mid-season, I think he has to do it. I think he would do it. Fuck the cake. Start over. Mix a much better cake and stick THAT in the oven.

Maybe Discovery is on to something.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Why are those two goals (bolded) mutually exclusive? See previous comments about Odom and Kirilenko. Are they better talents than some of the starters? No doubt. See also Havlicek.
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That's definitely a smaller set of exceptions, rather than the rule. And with our depth at the big three positions (Joel backing up Oden, Rudy backing up Roy), power forward is the only spot where we MIGHT be able to get a bench player that would immediately be one of our 4 or 5 best players.

It's conceivable that we'll find a backup power forward that is not as good as Aldridge but better than most of the guys on our team... I just don't find it that likely. It's much more likely that we upgrade a position like the 1 or 3 with a good player that gets plugged right into the lineup.

Gerald Wallace would still be my choice, because I agree with you that Washington giving up Butler (for Gerald Wallace? nah...) isn't very likely.

Ed O.
 
Masbee said:
True, he makes these quotes. True, never been a mid-season trade by KP.

Makes you think.

And if the player coming back were Jamison or another over 30 players, or another player that would come off the bench, it does seem that KP would be reluctant to pull the trigger.

He is in the middle of "baking the cake" and he makes a so-so move that may or may not be a big help for a year or two?

On the other hand, if he could land an early-prime talent the caliber of Butler, and doesn't have to give up a lot, and had to make that move mid-season, I think he has to do it. I think he would do it. Fuck the cake. Start over. Mix a much better cake and stick THAT in the oven.

Maybe Discovery is on to something.
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Or maybe getting Butler would be having your cake and eating it too?
 
Just to remind, we on this board are not snoozers, and have tread this road before, ie, wondering about Butler and other small forward possibilities.

Discovery made an excellent post, adding current info to the subject and pulling it all together. I think looking at what we posted in the recent past is useful. I will bump thoses posts.

Interesting there seemed to be a consensus among a portion of the group that Washington would hardly consider "dumping" Butler - a broken down Arenas or over 30 Jamison, sure. But why Butler? I thought that Gerald Wallace might be not only more cheaply obtainable, but possibly a better fit as he is more of a defender and off-ball offensive talent than Butler, who is more of Roy in a Small Forward body.

I will add, that either one would be a fantastic get and worth pursuing.

Not knowing anything about it, I wonder if there is a difference between them in the "culture" arena or in BB IQ. It could be that Wallace is not considered a smart player. Not sure. One of these guys might have been ruled out by KP for these reasons.

Eddie Jordan fired, steal Butler idea:
http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129921

Teams calling about RLEC, steal Butler idea:
http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130019

PreSeason poach Gerald Wallace from hapless Bobcats idea:
http://www.sportstwo.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127011
 
julius said:
Why do they hate us? I don't doubt that they'd have reasons to, I just wonder why.
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Not sure why. But from listening to radio conversations between the local media and Jazz management over the last 10 years it has been quite apparent. Even though I have not heard anything lately.
My guess a lot of it stems from how much Paul Allen has been willing to spend. They seem a offended/jealous that Portland has an advantage over them when money is concerned. It is one thing that an LA or New York has an advantage because they are a big market team, but their hate that Portland does too.
Plus they are a little arrogant with the way they do things. "They do it the right way". So when the Portland players got into trouble they loved taking shots at us. They would laugh when the local radio station would have their daily Blazer Police Blotter segment (For about a year) The funny thing about it is that they were no saints. The voice of the jazz was a raging drunk. (arrested numerous times for drunk driving), they had a player who committed statutory rape, players who were busted for pot, and assault.
They have been complimentary lately, but I know their true colors will show through when we pass them again. They are a division rival, so I don't blame them too much. But they are still hypocrites IMO
 
"Sir, some of the fans are catching on to the fact that the team may not be *that* good this season."

"Curses! Tell Mike&Mike to unleash another trade rumor to confound and distract them."
 
Butler is the one that makes the most sense. IMO, he's a complete player on the offensive end. He can shoot from 3 and mid-range. Butler can also post up and slash. He's definitely the type of player that would instantly make us a lot better. He's not a bad defender either. His game, IMO, is very Paul Pierce-esqe. A true All-Star stuck on a crappy team. He'd be huge for us.
 
Even though Butler was injured last year for the All Star game, he was selected by the coaches to be on the team, and until the 2009 All Star game is played, Butler would be considered a "current" All Star player. My guess is Marion, who last was an All Star in 2007. His $17 million comes off the books at the end of the season and he will most likely not re-sign with Miami. Miami could trade for Outlaw and LaFrentz, and only pay for Outlaw's salary for the remainder of this season since in 9 games, LaFrentz's salary will be picked up by an insurance company. Marion gets an audition with the Blazers for about 30-40 games, starting at SF with Webster backing him up, if he even returns this season. If the Blazers decide to keep him, they sign him in the off season and if not, they have a whole bunch of cap room to use on a free agent.

I think this works for Miami in that they get a young player in Outlaw, they can start Beasley, and they can go after Boozer in the off season. Marion gives the Blazers a player who can guard a lot of different sized players and gives them a little more scoring punch at the 3 slot.
 
Norman Dale said:
I think this works for Miami in that they get a young player in Outlaw, they can start Beasley, and they can go after Boozer in the off season. Marion gives the Blazers a player who can guard a lot of different sized players and gives them a little more scoring punch at the 3 slot.
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Plugging Marion into the rotation in the place of Outlaw would be very, very interesting. Marion might be a terrible fit, and he might be a troublemaker, and he might be a big negative... or he could be the guy that provides a lot of what we're missing in terms of experience and flexibility at both ends of the floor.

It would be a big gamble, but given that his contract would come off the books, I wouldn't mind that kind of deal... although clearly I'd prefer Wallace or Butler.

Ed O.
 
Caron Butler is clearly the best fit of all of the known *possibly* available players on the market.
 
Fez said:
Caron Butler is clearly the best fit of all of the known *possibly* available players on the market.
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Who says Caron Butler is available?

We know Gerald Wallace is (or was). That was reported. Same with Marion. And others.

But, what information do we have to indicate that Butler is even "possibly" available?
 
Ed O said:
Plugging Marion into the rotation in the place of Outlaw would be very, very interesting. Marion might be a terrible fit, and he might be a troublemaker, and he might be a big negative... or he could be the guy that provides a lot of what we're missing in terms of experience and flexibility at both ends of the floor.

It would be a big gamble, but given that his contract would come off the books, I wouldn't mind that kind of deal... although clearly I'd prefer Wallace or Butler.

Ed O.
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It is interesting to note that the issue that Marion had in Phoenix, apparently also happened to Diaw and Raja Bell.

I wonder if some of the issues might not be so much Marion, Bell and Raja, as it is Stoudemire.
 
We're getting Lebron James. Recognize.
 
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